Action button labels: poll 2 bis

[_wb_]

As we know, people play emulators all the time. They can live with button labels that don't match.

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. People expect emulation to be different, and for the most part the labels are entirely irrelevant as you just map the emulated buttons to their expected positions. Old games and applications wouldn't be emulated, they would (hopefully, in theory) just run. How do you tell the difference between one game asking for Button X (pg-up) and another game asking for Button X (pg-dn)?

This is a problem with proposal 2, but not really with the other proposals. If it asks for button B you'll know it's an old Pandora game and that button is called Ω now.

Many Pandora devs are still alive. They will probably want to update their games and applications anyway to take advantage of things like increased resolution and multi-threading. Changing a help screen or two is not a big deal.

 

[Grench]

_wb_, do you think that it would make sense if you created such a list, and do you think that it would be a feasible task?

 I could try to do that, yes. I think we have exhausted all the arguments pro and contra in the previous threads, so I could give a summary of that. Maybe tomorrow or so, it'll take some time.

In an ordering poll, you do not score. In a scoring poll, you do not order. Different things. Different actions. OK?

 
Sigh.

Grench just calmed down and changed his vote to something valid, now Thorgan shows up and votes 5 times for proposal 1. Is this poll so hard to grasp?

Is it so hard to grasp that people REALLY don't like being constrained/forced into voting FOR your other options?

Please add a 'none of the above' option to questions 2-5.

 

[BlackEagle]

Sorry I got that late.

To add my last comment to the question of key-layout I wanted to suggest an additional variation of the greek style layout in order to get a new variatipon of Key-Layouts.

There would be the option to use another ancient layout like runes:

 

[Ziz]

Someone should do that next time he's on IRC, as he seems rather passive in these threads

This discussion is so senseless... Did someone even ask EvilDragon, whether greek symbols even come into question?

 I hope they don't.

In fact... I did.
But keep on! Don't be bothered...

 

[Kiga]

Is it so hard to grasp that people REALLY don't like being constrained/forced into voting FOR your other options?


Please add a 'none of the above' option to questions 2-5.

I REALLY don't want Latin letters, but I vote because it's the way chosen to determinate people's opinion. It's not an end but a means.

Sorry I got that late.

To add my last comment to the question of key-layout I wanted to suggest an additional variation of the greek style layout in order to get a new variatipon of Key-Layouts.

There would be the option to use another ancient layout like runes:

Somebody already did that.

Of course better than the senseless latin letters, but not in resonance with Pyra identity like greek's letters and harder to name

 

[BlackEagle]

Somebody already did that. Of course better than the senseless latin letters, but not in resonance with Pyra identity like greek's letters and harder to name

Greek may be more plausible of cause. But to be hornest...

Original the letters I don't like them. And if they are redesigned they really look like Playstation Signs (First it's partented, second it's copied).

Runes look pretty originally and they are new. To goon to the discussion with greek and similar to pandora and pyra methologics. True! But there is a difference between common greek letters and ancient greek letters. If runes don't match the greek methologies use ancient geek letters please! It's more new then the latin letters. In computerages I would call it primitive or stone aged ^^ This is the latest opinion of linux systems, they're primitive.

 

[SNESFAN]

I think the runes look cool but have the same problem with identification for common reference. If your reading this you know the Latin alphabet, if you passed primary school you know your shapes. If you attended college you may know the Greek alphabet. If you live in skyrim you may know the runeacle alphabet. See where the breakdown is? Style has its limits where it starts effecting use ability. Just like computer security, there needs to be a sanity check on use ability.

 

[Kiga]

If you attended college you may know the Greek alphabet.

 WHAT ?

I know greek's letters shape since primary school, and I know some names since secondary school. And I think a lot of people are in this case, don't say fantasy things, you should open a poll, I feel like since the begin of Greek letters discussion, all the uncultivated here are gathered to shout that everyone are like them.

 

[TrashyMG]

I know greek's letters shape since primary school, and I know some names since secondary school. And I think a lot of people are in this case, don't say fantasy things, you should open a poll, I feel like since the begin of Greek letters discuss, all the uncultivated here are gathered to shout that everyone are like them.

I take it you're not from the US. You can slip all the way through high school without learning any of this. Public schools are pretty bad in places.

 

[Kiga]

Few people know their name in France too, but most people know their shape. And some letters' name are known like oméga, pi like everywhere I think. And in secondary school you learn some names in science.

 

[SNESFAN]

It may be different in other places in the world. But just for a sanity check I asked my wife with a masters degree in nursing who is also in a sorority if she can identify the Greek alphabet. She was able to remember the names of like 6 letters, and when I asked her to identify the proposed letters she was able to identify 3 of the easier ones. She feels she is of way above average in being "cultured" and that your crazy to think most westerners would know a mostly dead languages alphabet as common knowledge.

 

[Kiga]

The shape is a common knowledge and some names too. But to return at the topic, the fact their names aren't completely known isn't a problem at all to me.

 

[levi]

You know the funny thing about the human brain? It learns stuff like that.


For me the biggest concern about greek characters is talking about them on sites like gp32x and others. I don't see any other issue that can't be worked round.

 

[SNESFAN]

What problem is the Greek lettering solving that would merit forcing a large portion of users to learn something completely new just to use an extremely basic function? And moreso what problem couldn't be solved with a much simpler system that is already of common knowledge? I feel its needlessly difficult just for the sake of style. Disregarding this point as "if you want it bad enough you'll just learn" is pretty elitist. There's a reason not everyone knows how to compile a program or install an OS, or code in C. Those things would make people's lives way easier if that was common knowledge and are all fairly simple concepts if people took the time to learn. They don't normally learn those things because they're not required to know to be able to use a computers basic functionality. What if that was a requirement? How many computer users would there be?

 

[levi]

It's only a fraction of the (ancient) greek alphabet - it's not hard to learn. And at least the symbols have some body and context, unlike the playstation where I can never remember without looking which one's square and which one's triangle.


But it's pretty academic as the greek suggestions don't seem to be doing that well in the poll at the moment.

 

[Kiga]

What problem is the Greek lettering solving that would merit forcing a large portion of users to learn something completely new just to use an extremely basic function? And moreso what problem couldn't be solved with a much simpler system that is already of common knowledge? I feel its needlessly difficult just for the sake of style. Disregarding this point as "if you want it bad enough you'll just learn" is pretty elitist.

It's only 4 maximum(since oméga and pi are very known) to learn and you can use playstation names with people who don't know, as you can see here you really can use them

The fact names aren't already widely known also bothers me a bit, even if I now learned them all unconsciously because I had to talk about them here (3 that I didn't know). Honestly if latin letters wouldn't be used, I would not discuss here.

The fundamental reason I don't want latin letters is because there are already used and even if it's a little incoherence, there is no reason to not correct it since it's little. But you guys just want to stay with YOUR pandora layout.

Well, EvilDragon will chose, I hope he will make the good choice.

 

[Exophase]

Would be nice if each successive poll thread didn't have the exact same arguments brought up over and over again -_-

 

[Kiga]

exact same arguments brought up over and over again

False.

But even if it would be like this, nobody forces you to read these threads. Theses threads are chiefly for polls, nobody have completely new argument, you could just skip.

 

[Exophase]

False.

The arguments from both sides about whether or not anyone would be recognize, name, or learn Greek letters have been brought up several times now. Don't even try to pretend otherwise.

But even if it would be like this, nobody forces you to read these threads. Theses threads are chiefly for polls, nobody have completely new argument, you could just skip.

Yes, these threads are for polls, and you guys are diluting discussion about the polls by bringing up old arguments while adding nothing new to them whatsoever. We get it, you don't like Latin letters, others don't like Greek letters, but you're not bringing up new points, you're just beating the old ones to death. It feels like you're doing nothing more than grandstanding your opinion, as if you'll somehow win everyone over that way, and it's not especially pleasant. No, nobody forces me to read these threads (and once they turn out like this I tend to stop bothering), and no one forces you to read my criticism of your bickering with ever condescending tone, but that doesn't stop you from whining about that either, so here we are.

 

[_wb_]