A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)

[jus1982b]

I am so glad that some people could play down the importance of my message because of grammar. you obviously all got it otherwise you wouldn't have commented about it!

Besides not being parseable in english, your comment was off the mark. It wasn't Craig who "messed up" the cases, the nubs or the PCBs. He just used a questionable method to attempt to fund ongoing production (taking more preorders).

WOW really? cause I was talking about cases LOLZ ... some people.... at least you know grammar and spelling so all may not be lost.

 

[gunrock]

i dont care who craig is, or what part of the pyramid ripped me off, openpandora took my money. i would gladly jump on a class action lawsuit at this point, especially if it exposed some sort of international business fraud.


and as far as not getting any money by suing craigs company thats a load of bs. he has a house and a car and money invested in OP and ICP and all the product tied to his shop etc. etc.

Remember folks, it's never too late in the year to be a dick.

 

[jus1982b]

i dont care who craig is, or what part of the pyramid ripped me off, openpandora took my money. i would gladly jump on a class action lawsuit at this point, especially if it exposed some sort of international business fraud.


and as far as not getting any money by suing craigs company thats a load of bs. he has a house and a car and money invested in OP and ICP and all the product tied to his shop etc. etc.

Remember folks, it's never too late in the year to be a dick.

I can understand where he/she is comming from. however thats not how things work LOL

 

[jus1982b]

I think there are a lot of people on here that are not understanding of the people who got Effed in the A. there are a lot of people who bet it all on this and are still left empty handed.... I was lucky to get my first Pandora as ordered within a month per the agreement of by now ship now, had the same agreement with my last purchase of the 1 GHz model that was back on Aug 10th? So yes I am upset. And other people similar to my situation and maybe even worse are even more upset UNDERSTANABLY! Let’s not say hey they are a dick or asshole how about sorry brother/sister I am in/were in a similar boat and it sucks but try and keep faith.

 

[klapse]

I think there are a lot of people on here that are not understanding of the people who got Effed in the A.

... and the people who got most "Effed in the "A" were Craig and Ed, by their suppliers not delivering working products. Getting "Effed" for a few hundred dollars is nowhere NEAR as bad as getting "Effed" for a few HUNDRED THOUSAND dollars, like Ed and Craig were.


Whatever mistakes were made by Ed and Craig pale by comparison to how badly they got screwed. Let's try to keep a sense of proportion here.

 

[jus1982b]

I think there are a lot of people on here that are not understanding of the people who got Effed in the A.

... and the people who got most "Effed in the "A" were Craig and Ed, by their suppliers not delivering working products. Getting "Effed" for a few hundred dollars is nowhere NEAR as bad as getting "Effed" for a few HUNDRED THOUSAND dollars, like Ed and Craig were.


Whatever mistakes were made by Ed and Craig pale by comparison to how badly they got screwed. Let's try to keep a sense of proportion here.

hmmm.. so us getting screwed has nothing to do with the choices they made? You make some may moot points about what happened in relation to the customers.

 

[F_Slim]

hmmm.. so us getting screwed has nothing to do with the choices they made? You make some may moot points about what happened in relation to the customers.

You are not getting screwed, they are working their ass of to save the situation and make sure everybody will get his/her Pandora!


THAT is the coice they made: to not file for bankruptcy (ie leave everybody with nothing).


THAT's their relation to the community ("the customers"): not let them down, although it would have been the easiest way out ot this.


It's easy to look back and shout "that was a bad decision, everybody can see that!", but usually the only valid accusation you make there is that they are no clairvoyants.

 

[jus1982b]

hmmm.. so us getting screwed has nothing to do with the choices they made? You make some may moot points about what happened in relation to the customers.

You are not getting screwed, they are working their ass of to save the situation and make sure everybody will get his/her Pandora!


THAT is the coice they made: to not file for bankruptcy (ie leave everybody with nothing).


THAT's their relation to the community ("the customers"): not let them down, although it would have been the easiest way out ot this.


It's easy to look back and shout "that was a bad decision, everybody can see that!", but usually the only valid accusation you make there is that they are no clairvoyants.

I appreciate that.

 

[hedwards]

hmmm.. so us getting screwed has nothing to do with the choices they made? You make some may moot points about what happened in relation to the customers.

You are not getting screwed, they are working their ass of to save the situation and make sure everybody will get his/her Pandora!


THAT is the coice they made: to not file for bankruptcy (ie leave everybody with nothing).


THAT's their relation to the community ("the customers"): not let them down, although it would have been the easiest way out ot this.


It's easy to look back and shout "that was a bad decision, everybody can see that!", but usually the only valid accusation you make there is that they are no clairvoyants.

Trying to save things was probably a bad decision for them. But for myself and all the people who have received their units since then, I say thank you to them. Also, here's hoping they get the queues completely cleared in the near future so all this BS can end.


And they can get to work on the Pandora 2000 Alpha Redux and Redox super happy fun edition.

 

[gunrock]

I think there are a lot of people on here that are not understanding of the people who got Effed in the A. there are a lot of people who bet it all on this and are still left empty handed.... I was lucky to get my first Pandora as ordered within a month per the agreement of by now ship now, had the same agreement with my last purchase of the 1 GHz model that was back on Aug 10th? So yes I am upset. And other people similar to my situation and maybe even worse are even more upset UNDERSTANABLY! Let’s not say hey they are a dick or asshole how about sorry brother/sister I am in/were in a similar boat and it sucks but try and keep faith.

I got my CC 256mb pandora by buying a premium back in 2011. It has issues with the wifi and the case has cracks. So recently I upgraded to a 1ghz which I paid the dosh for and I'm still waiting like you. However, I do still have my current Pandora and I love it (warts and all). So yeah, my situation isn't as bleak as yours and I think Craig has made a few mistakes along the way and he seems incapable of admitting that. However, attempting to bankrupt Craig is childish and spiteful and will not get you your money back or your pandora. It will also 'eff' everyone else in the 'a' (to use your parlance). So I understand the pain, but ED is working hard to resolve the issues and Craig is working hard on icp2 which the success is important to resolving his cashflow issues.

 

[jus1982b]

I think there are a lot of people on here that are not understanding of the people who got Effed in the A. there are a lot of people who bet it all on this and are still left empty handed.... I was lucky to get my first Pandora as ordered within a month per the agreement of by now ship now, had the same agreement with my last purchase of the 1 GHz model that was back on Aug 10th? So yes I am upset. And other people similar to my situation and maybe even worse are even more upset UNDERSTANABLY! Let’s not say hey they are a dick or asshole how about sorry brother/sister I am in/were in a similar boat and it sucks but try and keep faith.

I got my CC 256mb pandora by buying a premium back in 2011. It has issues with the wifi and the case has cracks. So recently I upgraded to a 1ghz which I paid the dosh for and I'm still waiting like you. However, I do still have my current Pandora and I love it (warts and all). So yeah, my situation isn't as bleak as yours and I think Craig has made a few mistakes along the way and he seems incapable of admitting that. However, attempting to bankrupt Craig is childish and spiteful and will not get you your money back or your pandora. It will also 'eff' everyone else in the 'a' (to use your parlance). So I understand the pain, but ED is working hard to resolve the issues and Craig is working hard on icp2 which the success is important to resolving his cashflow issues.

That’s their choice it doesn’t make it bad. But they need to understand the law on what type of business it is and where the "money is “his personal property house car? That might not work to get money out of unless he is embezzling from the company to fund his personal life I.E. beyond a paycheck. in the end something like a law suit like this will only end up costing the person filing it, and by the time anything comes of it, you would have had the Pandora in the first place or the company will already have been liquidated. so more or less a wast of time and money.. sadley.

 

[klapse]

I thought I'd pull up some relevant info for the newbies here:


Nubs (another 30,000 € loss):

They ordered off the shelf nubs from a company. These nubs were pretty good. That company stopped making them, or went out of business, or something. Point being that they suddenly were no longer available.


So, after much investigation of other existing nubs and finding nothing suitable, they contracted a company to make them for them. They were paid upfront (because it was a small order (8000 is small, in big business)) and got much of the work done before going out of business. As I recall, they had the moulds and specs, but no nubs were actually done yet. So they contracted another company, paid for the nubs AGAIN (first company going out of business = no refund) and finally got the nubs.

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/51469-the-nubs/page-2?


LCD Cables:

* Lots of failed LCD Cables in the beginning after we assembled the lid. As we had all 4000 cables here, it didn't prevent us to build the units... but it took a lot more time. As we now know what the problem was, this will be no slowdown anymore (last 200 lids we built only had one failed LCD cable )

Cases: (after MANY delays from the Chinese manufacturer)

* The case was fine, but the L/R Buttons were painted, so they didn't fit. We needed to manually drill and file them to make them work (you can't drill exactly in the center, so you need to manually file and test them...) This was REALLY time consuming - took up to 1 - 8 minutes (varying) per unit! As the next 3000 buttons will not be painted, this issue is also solved.

Boards:

Take CC for example: About 25% of the 4000 PCBs have been killed by them. That's a damage of 300,000 EUR.

Again EvilDragon: "So in February 2011, every Pandora should have been delivered and we should have had them in stock from then on. The company we were using to make the PCBs told us they needed eight months to produce 3000 boards - they'd previously promised us 1000 boards per week. When they arrived, 1000 didn't even work, which was equal to a cash loss of over 300,000 Euros. Considering the resultant sales we lost, the actual damage probably went into the millions."


More background info, "The Pandora Story": http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-the-pandora-story

 

[jus1982b]

I thought I'd pull up some relevant info for the newbies here:


Nubs (another 30,000 € loss):

They ordered off the shelf nubs from a company. These nubs were pretty good. That company stopped making them, or went out of business, or something. Point being that they suddenly were no longer available.


So, after much investigation of other existing nubs and finding nothing suitable, they contracted a company to make them for them. They were paid upfront (because it was a small order (8000 is small, in big business)) and got much of the work done before going out of business. As I recall, they had the moulds and specs, but no nubs were actually done yet. So they contracted another company, paid for the nubs AGAIN (first company going out of business = no refund) and finally got the nubs.

http://www.gp32x.de...he-nubs/page-2?


LCD Cables:

* Lots of failed LCD Cables in the beginning after we assembled the lid. As we had all 4000 cables here, it didn't prevent us to build the units... but it took a lot more time. As we now know what the problem was, this will be no slowdown anymore (last 200 lids we built only had one failed LCD cable )

Cases: (after MANY delays from the Chinese manufacturer)

* The case was fine, but the L/R Buttons were painted, so they didn't fit. We needed to manually drill and file them to make them work (you can't drill exactly in the center, so you need to manually file and test them...) This was REALLY time consuming - took up to 1 - 8 minutes (varying) per unit! As the next 3000 buttons will not be painted, this issue is also solved.

Boards:

Take CC for example: About 25% of the 4000 PCBs have been killed by them. That's a damage of 300,000 EUR.

Again EvilDragon: "So in February 2011, every Pandora should have been delivered and we should have had them in stock from then on. The company we were using to make the PCBs told us they needed eight months to produce 3000 boards - they'd previously promised us 1000 boards per week. When they arrived, 1000 didn't even work, which was equal to a cash loss of over 300,000 Euros. Considering the resultant sales we lost, the actual damage probably went into the millions."


More background info, "The Pandora Story": http://www.eurogamer...e-pandora-story

So there not Nintendo? but a rag tag fleet... wait a min that battlestar galactica.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Lets do some rough maths


If Craig has:


1) 700 classic Pre-orders to fulfill +


2) 70 1Ghz to fulfill and


3) has no money left.


Assuming this (may/may not be the case). ED has said it will take 190 new Pandora sales to make the money needed to fulfill the 70 1Ghz orders. Assuming the same rate to clear the 700 pre-orders, 2090 new Pandora sales need to be made to clear Craig's backlog of Pandora sales.


Feel free to correct any assumptions that are wrong

 

[zagabar]

they'res no point in righting korectly sins peepl wil get it eny way yo ur just being bitchie conplaynin bout it yo gremmer sux

 

[dreamer]

Feel free to correct any assumptions that are wrong

There's a whole bunch of people (including me) that have upgraded their pre-orders from craig.


Each upgrade saves a spot in the queue and helps send another unit to a pre-order.


So, numbers will be, and have always been, off.

 

[klapse]

Assuming this (may/may not be the case). ED has said it will take 190 new Pandora sales to make the money needed to fulfill the 70 1Ghz orders. Assuming the same rate to clear the 700 pre-orders

Original preorders cost less to clear because they are 600mhz rebirth units.

 

[dooble]

I thought I'd pull up some relevant info for the newbies here:


Nubs (another 30,000 € loss):

They ordered off the shelf nubs from a company. These nubs were pretty good. That company stopped making them, or went out of business, or something. Point being that they suddenly were no longer available.


So, after much investigation of other existing nubs and finding nothing suitable, they contracted a company to make them for them. They were paid upfront (because it was a small order (8000 is small, in big business)) and got much of the work done before going out of business. As I recall, they had the moulds and specs, but no nubs were actually done yet. So they contracted another company, paid for the nubs AGAIN (first company going out of business = no refund) and finally got the nubs.

http://www.gp32x.de...he-nubs/page-2?


LCD Cables:

* Lots of failed LCD Cables in the beginning after we assembled the lid. As we had all 4000 cables here, it didn't prevent us to build the units... but it took a lot more time. As we now know what the problem was, this will be no slowdown anymore (last 200 lids we built only had one failed LCD cable )

Cases: (after MANY delays from the Chinese manufacturer)

* The case was fine, but the L/R Buttons were painted, so they didn't fit. We needed to manually drill and file them to make them work (you can't drill exactly in the center, so you need to manually file and test them...) This was REALLY time consuming - took up to 1 - 8 minutes (varying) per unit! As the next 3000 buttons will not be painted, this issue is also solved.

Boards:

Take CC for example: About 25% of the 4000 PCBs have been killed by them. That's a damage of 300,000 EUR.

Again EvilDragon: "So in February 2011, every Pandora should have been delivered and we should have had them in stock from then on. The company we were using to make the PCBs told us they needed eight months to produce 3000 boards - they'd previously promised us 1000 boards per week. When they arrived, 1000 didn't even work, which was equal to a cash loss of over 300,000 Euros. Considering the resultant sales we lost, the actual damage probably went into the millions."


More background info, "The Pandora Story": http://www.eurogamer...e-pandora-story

I appreciate the history. Typically when engaging a company for custom or unique parts like the nubs, you do an investigation into the financial health of the company, plans for business continuation, etc. When engaging a CM, the contracts need to be carefully reviewed and understood as to who is responsible to what and all conditions. In my last company we had our own manufacturing team that would work with major CMs to optimize the process for yield. We provided the test that had to be performed to validate good units, usually a functional test, not ICT. I'm not sure who was contractually responsible these or many other items. The board layout, stencil design, choice of solder paste and flux (etc.) can all effect yield on a product on a manufacturing line. There are so many other items that should be considered in manufacturing a product.


I'm not going to point fault as Ed, Craig, or CC. I don't have enough information to make an educated determination of fault.


I've been off the boards for a little bit and this thread has exploded. So what is the real status? Has Craig bailed or is this the same old conjecture? All I know is that I have not received an acknowledgement of my last request from Craig.


doob

 

[b1llygo4t]

ha so i complain about getting ripped off (that IS what is happening) and left in the dust and people call me a dick.


its called free enterprise. I made a gamble and SO did craig, SO did everyone else involved with craig AND OP. when you file bankruptcy you liquidate assets and pay off depts. when you file a class action lawsuit the lawyer takes a percentage of the payout after the fact.. look it up... oh wait i just did https://www.gov.uk/bankruptcy/overview http://class-actions.lawyers.com/Class-Action-FAQ.html


if craig files bankruptcy he loses everything, thats the name of the game. screw me screw yourself.


@ titsuckers:: quit putting craig on a pedestal. as far as i can tell hes just an investor, salesman and founding member. and con artist. cut this turd loose. OP would be better off in the long run if they survive.

 

[hedwards]

I appreciate the history. Typically when engaging a company for custom or unique parts like the nubs, you do an investigation into the financial health of the company, plans for business continuation, etc. When engaging a CM, the contracts need to be carefully reviewed and understood as to who is responsible to what and all conditions. In my last company we had our own manufacturing team that would work with major CMs to optimize the process for yield. We provided the test that had to be performed to validate good units, usually a functional test, not ICT. I'm not sure who was contractually responsible these or many other items. The board layout, stencil design, choice of solder paste and flux (etc.) can all effect yield on a product on a manufacturing line. There are so many other items that should be considered in manufacturing a product.


I'm not going to point fault as Ed, Craig, or CC. I don't have enough information to make an educated determination of fault.


I've been off the boards for a little bit and this thread has exploded. So what is the real status? Has Craig bailed or is this the same old conjecture? All I know is that I have not received an acknowledgement of my last request from Craig.


doob

It's great if you happen to have the money for your own team of engineers, otherwise, you don't really have that option.


And yes, it's just the same Craig defrauded us conjecture. Neglecting of course that as a Ltd, his company could just declare bankruptcy and he'd be out.