What will you use your Pyra for?

[Binky]

I will use my Pyra for the same thing I use my Pandora for, not much of anything other than to support the folks who are proving that it doesn't take a large company to innovate and produce a great device.

Who said that large companies ever truly innovate?

 

[Marijus_Pikelis]

I have a laptop, but because it's big and heavy and nowhere near as portable as Pyra is, it's just too much of a struggle to carry it around everywhere. So, Pyra should really replace a lot of things.

 

[ekianjo]

Who said that large companies ever truly innovate?

Some do. Ever heard of Bell Labs ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs

 

[Tahatch Bearwolf]

Now, I am no techno-wizard like most of you are, but the more I think about it the more I realize that from a consumer standpoint, what my needs and wants and hopes are for this gadget, if it was just X86 it would do everything I want and more. Then really I couldn't ask for more (except maybe ruggedization).

Just putting my 2 cents in, this gadget could be the do-all many dream of but never believe will truly come.

 

[Grench]

Now, I am no techno-wizard like most of you are, but the more I think about it the more I realize that from a consumer standpoint, what my needs and wants and hopes are for this gadget, if it was just X86 it would do everything I want and more. Then really I couldn't ask for more (except maybe ruggedization).

Just putting my 2 cents in, this gadget could be the do-all many dream of but never believe will truly come.

What you're not realizing is that:

"if it was just X86"

and

"it would do everything I want and more"

are not codependent.

So, let's explore more about everything you want it to do. What IS it that you want it to do - regardless of the SoC or architecture underlying the device?

 

[SageX]

Ham Radio Mobile command center (because the internet isn't a constant)

Serial connectivity (to program my radios without a bulky laptop)

sending modulated signals in digital modes ( we were doing that with commodore 64s back in the day)

Bug out Bag computer ( the current draw / battery = lots of computational time)

'

Would be able to answer things I do with my cell phone that I shouldn't because of spelling errors and because touch screens are error prone 

irc, small fixes to coding projects, email, writing letters, telephony, embedded architecture specific applications

> the ability to experiment with mulitple operating systems on older SD cards I have laying round

> no spinning hard drives or fans

> so that I can buy a ruggedized phone instead of a smart* phone

I predict the device is going to cost$850 USD

*the picture below is what I mean by having access to a computer while mobile (not mine but I own one of the radios in this picture)

 

[Tahatch Bearwolf]

Now, I am no techno-wizard like most of you are, but the more I think about it the more I realize that from a consumer standpoint, what my needs and wants and hopes are for this gadget, if it was just X86 it would do everything I want and more. Then really I couldn't ask for more (except maybe ruggedization).


Just putting my 2 cents in, this gadget could be the do-all many dream of but never believe will truly come.

What you're not realizing is that:


"if it was just X86"


and


"it would do everything I want and more"


are not codependent.


So, let's explore more about everything you want it to do. What IS it that you want it to do - regardless of the SoC or architecture underlying the device?

Well, I did write a list earlier in this thread but to put it all in a nutshell; I want to install winxp and ubuntu and run all of the programs and low requirement games (i.e. diablo 2 lod with mods, morrowind, dicsiples 2, magic the gathering -the old one, halo combat evolved, zdoom, of course all the emulators - especially snes and n64) that I now run under those operating systems. With the pyra I hope to have the added benefit of ultra portability, an accurate touchscreen with stylus for my manga studio/graphics programs (yes I don't mind drawing on a small screen), dual sd drives, built in high quality gaming nubs, hot swappable battery, built in 3g radio, built in mechanical qwerty keyboard, analog volume wheel and plenty o' ports (please include a mic-in port too developer buddies). It would also be great if it had a basic low res (640x480 or 1.3 mp) webcam and built in mic too. If I had such a gadget I would literally need no other for both work and play and communication, so I am hoping. The Pandora was the best I have seen yet but it was just not quite there, this one could be so I am rooting for it.

 

[WizardStan]

I want to install winxp

Simply having an x86 chip would not be enough. I have forgotten the specifics but I remember some debate about getting Windows to run on a SoC and it was not something that would be easy to do, the boot process is completely different.Installing x86 Linux systems like Ubuntu would be pretty easy because it doesn't care much about the boot process and what it does care about we have the source for and can fix.

So right from the start your idea that "if it was just X86 it would do everything I want and more" is flawed.

That being said, on your list: Diablo 2 runs on the Pandora with some frame skipping, arguably well enough to actually play and there's every reason to believe the Pyra will be able to close the gap; Ditto for Morrowind, and if not the actual game in emulation then OpenMW should be a good second choice; can't speak for disciples, mtg, or halo, but the Pandora already has many flavours of Doom that can run all kinds of different mods so you won't be lacking there. Plus all the emulators that already exist and will continue to be expanded upon. And all the rest except the webcam are already built into it of course.

So the question still stands: what is it that you want it to do that you think requires an x86 processor?

 

[SNESFAN]

I don't think anyone is going to provide an argument that isn't going to have someone providing some half ass solution that involves emulation or reverse engineering rather than the benefits of natively running. (No offense there Stan)


The desire of people wanting it I'm 100% certain is running a native windows and all the software you can run on a windows tablet and the like in a form factor not even close to being available in normal mobile windows device.


However you could in theory use a open source boot loader to stand in the middle of the boot process instead of the windows boot manager. I had to do something similar to disrupt the normal windows boot process to get it to boot off removable media correctly some time ago.


Grub is a good example of something that has worked in the past to do exactly what you would need, but heard it doesn't work with uefi which all these x86 soc's use. Efilinux is a uefi os loader and could potentially do the same thing as grub used to in that respect. Dont know of any x86 soc device that only provides linux support and not windows so hard to find details or examples of proofs of concept. Grub and the like works similarly to the way uboot works for arm. It doesn't exactly care what OS you're loading into even though it gets lots of Linux love. Its the way you get Linux to boot on x86 tabs that only have windows support so I'm sure it would work in reverse.


Completely moot point in any foreseeable future though, because I see a extremely slim chance of this being $$ invested in when the primary desire being running software other than Linux from the majority of those that might want it. Can't even get them to invest on the software side for a solid android build and that's only software development and a large chunk of the work is already handed to them. Anyway....


Sorry for sounding salty, or the rambling, having a bad day. But that would be the answer to that problem I think.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Man, sorry for the off topic but I still like your avatar for Pyra and call it Pandragon

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Yeah, that avatar IS awesome!

 

[WizardStan]

I don't think anyone is going to provide an argument that isn't going to have someone providing some half ass solution that involves emulation or reverse engineering rather than the benefits of natively running. (No offense there Stan)

None taken. You missed the point I was trying to make, I probably didn't explain well enough. Tahatch made a list of things he specifically wanted an x86 for, as if x86 was the only way to get these things. I was specifically countering the idea that we would need x86 for these listed things.If he'd said something like portable WoW or other more recent game, or running some other proprietary Windows software which hasn't had the same success in emulation that Diablo 2 has had (or even on an x86 Linux box with WINE) then I wouldn't have had anything to say.

 

[Grench]

An important point was brought up though.  It would be a good thing to get ports of common ham radio control software ported to the Pandora/Pyra.  From what I've been able to tell, that stuff is mostly open source.  It just needs someone who cares enough and has the right skills to port it.

 

[SNESFAN]

@stan


Gotcha, mine was in response to what appeared as series of replies with the mentality of ARM+linux can do everything (that matters) as x86 only better and more efficient, windows sucks, blah blah. Confirmation bias.


If the intention really was to provide solutions to his problems rather than trying to question or invalidate his desire then I apologize, but your reply nor the others appeared that way.

 

[TrashyMG]

x86/ARM debate aside, Windows does suck... 

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Windows does suck really.  I like x86 SoC like z3795 but I wouldn't put windows on it.

Edit: h34r:

 

[SNESFAN]

x86/ARM debate aside, Windows does suck...

I still hate bears.

 

[TrashyMG]

x86/ARM debate aside, Windows does suck...

I still hate bears.

Your hatred of bears is irrelevant.

 

[Tahatch Bearwolf]

I want to install winxp

Simply having an x86 chip would not be enough. I have forgotten the specifics but I remember some debate about getting Windows to run on a SoC and it was not something that would be easy to do, the boot process is completely different.
Installing x86 Linux systems like Ubuntu would be pretty easy because it doesn't care much about the boot process and what it does care about we have the source for and can fix.


So right from the start your idea that "if it was just X86 it would do everything I want and more" is flawed.


That being said, on your list: Diablo 2 runs on the Pandora with some frame skipping, arguably well enough to actually play and there's every reason to believe the Pyra will be able to close the gap; Ditto for Morrowind, and if not the actual game in emulation then OpenMW should be a good second choice; can't speak for disciples, mtg, or halo, but the Pandora already has many flavours of Doom that can run all kinds of different mods so you won't be lacking there. Plus all the emulators that already exist and will continue to be expanded upon. And all the rest except the webcam are already built into it of course.


So the question still stands: what is it that you want it to do that you think requires an x86 processor

Well, like I say, I dont really know the how so much as the what of what I want. As for games, yeah pandora already does a lot, but with a little more power and the right architecture and os it could run everything I love, though other than getting prefab little itx boards and adding components in a neat little folding case I have no idea how to do it myself and am prepared to pay for that expertise being handled for me. But I have listed what I want it to do with the gadget twice now, shall I compose a list of every program I wish to install? Basically, there are programs I need for work and play that while old and not too demanding on systems yet are just demanding enough to make running them through emus pointless and most of them are not available on ubuntu or an form of lynux that I know of.

 

[Tahatch Bearwolf]

x86/ARM debate aside, Windows does suck... 

I agree as far as all new versions (though I give a little love to w7 - if customized) but my little lean stripped down no nonsense customized version of xp is still a dream come true for me and does all I have the brains to handle and with very little resource draw.