What about something like this where you have four buttons in the same or similar position as on the Open Pandora and the two news ones either NE or SW of them, which should work well to simulate most Nintendo, Sega, PlayStation, Xbox and similar controllers. Or is this sort of 2x3 layout exactly what doesn't bode well with screw and/or component locations on the PCB?
Unofficial Keyboard Layouts
- Thread starter Saber
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God Ginrai
Godmaster
Tenka
Snakes and Fish
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It's my favorite design so far, especially because it sounds possible already. Just like my every other favorite controller. I don't have anything fun to add, just that I agree with God Ginrai and would feel happy to pay a lot more if the Pyra's game buttons were comfortably past-system compatible like this.
slaeshjag
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Am I the only one who'd muchly prefer the current 6-button layout over a SEGA-style one?
God Ginrai
Godmaster
There may be others, but I feel you are certainly in the minority on this one.
-God Ginrai
WizardStan
Mega GP Mania
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No. I like ED's setup.
Why do you prefer ED's setup over Sega's?
comradekingu
Glowing ember
Because wonky afterthought console additions isnt a viable business model. I said it.
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God Ginrai
Godmaster
EvilDragon's current layout fits that definition more than the 6-button standard layout. Sega is not the only company that used that layout for 6-button controls, and it was hardly an afterthought. Sega put more effort into console design than any other company. The problem is, Sega sucked at marketing said consoles.
-God Ginrai
comradekingu
Glowing ember
If you can adjust to two buttons being wedged in, why not just assume its 3 sets of 2 across?
Saber
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Thanks for answering my inquiries.
No, normally the Windows keys are mapped to Super. On a normal keyboard there is no Meta.
Most keyboard either have two Alt keys or one Alt key and one AltGr key. Since I want both Alt and the Level3 modifier (Fn/AltGr) available both on the keyboard itself and on the shoulder buttons, it makes sense to call the latter Meta (or Hyper, that would work too) so we can have Alt_L, Alt_R, Meta_L and Meta_R that can all be nicely distinguished from one another.
In my layout, the right shift key on the keyboard would actually be Super_L (or Super_R, it does not really matter), which would be mapped to Shift by default but which would be a good candidate to map to Compose (the default Compose could be Meta+Super, and perhaps Shift+Enter too for backwards compatibility, although I don't really like that since there might be applications that actually use Shift+Enter). The actual Shift_R key is the L1 shoulder button like on the Pandora. A dedicated compose button obviously has the benefit of less keypresses.
The Pyra button would map to the Menu key like on the Pandora. It could also be mapped to Super, that would also make sense. But I'd rather have a Super key and a Menu key instead of two Super keys, so if the Pyra button becomes Super, then the key below Enter (right shift) should be Menu (remapped to shift by default).
Meta and Hyper are both vacant but available modifiers; I prefer Meta because it is one letter shorter and sounds better to me (e.g. it corresponds better to a button that can be used to toggle system settings like wifi/3g/bt/hdmi), it and there is a nice established symbol for it (◆). Also, afaik there are no existing (historical) keyboards that have a Hyper key but no Meta key, while keyboards with Meta keys and without Hyper keys are relatively common:
How do you access the diacritics/symbols in the A-K row? Is it Shift with Meta or Meta then Shift or something?
God Ginrai
Godmaster
Because you can't adjust to it. It is more strenuous for your right thumb and it does not follow a common progression. Second of All, EvilDragon's version is actually 4 sets. (1,2,1,2) Your thumb does not come up from the bottom of the device, but diagonally from the side, so the rows are counted diagonally, because that's how they physically are when having to move your thumb up and down between them. Plus, in fighting games, it would confuse people to have the light, medium, and heavy attacks in different left-to-right orders for punch and kick. And if you put them in the same left-to-right order, then the small buttons would be a medium attack and a light attack, which would still cause confusion.
The Saturn-style layout has equidistant buttons so you always know how far away the buttons are, has 2 rows so that you don't have to move your thumb forward and backward all the time (which is the harder movement for the thumb), has buttons that are all the same size so that they are all easy to press, (EvilDragon said himself when talking about the main 4 buttons that he didn't want smaller buttons because they would be hard to press) and has buttons that follow the curved pivot of your thumb around the joint. Plus, since this layout better matches any 6-button pad, (even the N64 layout is similar to this) it is also easier to understand.
-God Ginrai
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Hold both Meta and Shift (L1+L2) and press A-K, or if you use the sticky keys on the keyboard itself, press Meta, then Shift, then A-K, or Shift, then Meta, then A-K.Thanks for answering my inquiries.
No, normally the Windows keys are mapped to Super. On a normal keyboard there is no Meta.
Most keyboard either have two Alt keys or one Alt key and one AltGr key. Since I want both Alt and the Level3 modifier (Fn/AltGr) available both on the keyboard itself and on the shoulder buttons, it makes sense to call the latter Meta (or Hyper, that would work too) so we can have Alt_L, Alt_R, Meta_L and Meta_R that can all be nicely distinguished from one another.
In my layout, the right shift key on the keyboard would actually be Super_L (or Super_R, it does not really matter), which would be mapped to Shift by default but which would be a good candidate to map to Compose (the default Compose could be Meta+Super, and perhaps Shift+Enter too for backwards compatibility, although I don't really like that since there might be applications that actually use Shift+Enter). The actual Shift_R key is the L1 shoulder button like on the Pandora. A dedicated compose button obviously has the benefit of less keypresses.
The Pyra button would map to the Menu key like on the Pandora. It could also be mapped to Super, that would also make sense. But I'd rather have a Super key and a Menu key instead of two Super keys, so if the Pyra button becomes Super, then the key below Enter (right shift) should be Menu (remapped to shift by default).
Meta and Hyper are both vacant but available modifiers; I prefer Meta because it is one letter shorter and sounds better to me (e.g. it corresponds better to a button that can be used to toggle system settings like wifi/3g/bt/hdmi), it and there is a nice established symbol for it (◆). Also, afaik there are no existing (historical) keyboards that have a Hyper key but no Meta key, while keyboards with Meta keys and without Hyper keys are relatively common:
How do you access the diacritics/symbols in the A-K row? Is it Shift with Meta or Meta then Shift or something?
The same method would apply if you want to type an uppercase Ü Ö Ä or Ç.
Saber
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This method using Xkb's Mod3 is a good idea. Maybe we could add cedilla to the range, instead of a separate Ç, along with some of the obscure mathematical symbols normally under international AltGr if there's space on the keycaps for them. Great stuff here for non-english users.
comradekingu
Glowing ember
Thats disasterous news for non anglos. ^ U O or A does that. Or one of the intl buttons.
Similarly Ç is a present on a spanish keyboard (in those places) or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Canadian_Multilingual_Standard
If you are international of any kind, not having buttons there means the layout is broken with regards to what is the standard.
Having two shifts, two ctrls, caps lock, and other such nonsense isnt more important than ruining the layout for over half the world.
A lot of things are the way they are because of how two hands dictate things, which doesnt translate to two thumbs.
Try using a numpad with two tumbs.
Similarly Ç is a present on a spanish keyboard (in those places) or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Canadian_Multilingual_Standard
If you are international of any kind, not having buttons there means the layout is broken with regards to what is the standard.
Having two shifts, two ctrls, caps lock, and other such nonsense isnt more important than ruining the layout for over half the world.
A lot of things are the way they are because of how two hands dictate things, which doesnt translate to two thumbs.
Try using a numpad with two tumbs.
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DAP
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As long as any key can be remapped to any other key, and there are no double wide keys, two shift keys are not a problem.
comradekingu
Glowing ember
As long as we dont consider button labeling and default kbmap to be a problem, it wont be.
Number of buttons is strictly limited and two shifts thus compromizes the layout with regard to being able to include useful buttons, of which there are quite a few, which is a treshold to meet.
When is it you press shift and then something else with less than two hands on a handheld?
Number of buttons is strictly limited and two shifts thus compromizes the layout with regard to being able to include useful buttons, of which there are quite a few, which is a treshold to meet.
When is it you press shift and then something else with less than two hands on a handheld?
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ZetaNeta
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/me finally got his GHz Pandora. And now realizes that he would rather get no numbers, no game controls, and probably can go without half of the qwerty keyboard, but he needs a "normal" tab and space.
A quick comment on this:
1. . and , are better where they should be: On the right side.
2. A separate tab is a genius idea, and i surely should hug someone.
3. / and - should get a separate button (or be moved to a more comfortable position), because without those, you are not moving anywhere in a Linux terminal.
4. I dont see CAPS or Insert as anything useful thosedays. Instead of them, we may put I/O switches.
5. I see that Ctrl and Alt deserve a normal position (Ctrl-C, Alt-F4, Ctrl-X...)
7. Also, i dont get why : and ; are in the corner, when we can move them somewhere closer to where they are on a traditional qwerty.
8. Why dont we use the sides? On laptops, its the usual place for the I/O, and their switches. On smartphones, its the usual place for volume controls.
As someone already said, Psion-like keyboard would give you trucks full of money, including mine.
A quick comment on this:
1. . and , are better where they should be: On the right side.
2. A separate tab is a genius idea, and i surely should hug someone.
3. / and - should get a separate button (or be moved to a more comfortable position), because without those, you are not moving anywhere in a Linux terminal.
4. I dont see CAPS or Insert as anything useful thosedays. Instead of them, we may put I/O switches.
5. I see that Ctrl and Alt deserve a normal position (Ctrl-C, Alt-F4, Ctrl-X...)
7. Also, i dont get why : and ; are in the corner, when we can move them somewhere closer to where they are on a traditional qwerty.
8. Why dont we use the sides? On laptops, its the usual place for the I/O, and their switches. On smartphones, its the usual place for volume controls.
As someone already said, Psion-like keyboard would give you trucks full of money, including mine.
I already tried to remap my Tab and / to those buttons.Mouse controls makes less sense for me, as i find the right nub/AB buttons very good for it.
Somepotato
Still Fresh
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Out of curiosity why is it not
Y
X B
A
It's a much more common layout, so why reinvent the wheel?
Y
X B
A
It's a much more common layout, so why reinvent the wheel?
Tenka
Snakes and Fish
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Because the Pandora didn't have that button order, which was because the GP2X didn't have that button order, which was for reasons I'm not aware of. Maybe that's a Korean thing, like Japanese PS2 games often using O to accept and X to go back.
