A keyboard design that requires you to read a manual to use it, is somewhat flawed imo.
The big Pyra keyboard poll
- Thread starter _wb_
- Start date
I'm impressed how much effort you put into these layouts. I just started my own variant and it takes quite a while.
EDIT: Okay, you don't need to sacrifice Shift or Tab! Here she is! http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d8cf627251459c7853f7f09b279b424c
The main thing I wanted is to get double-width space, and also to free the pyra key to be used only for menu.
With this layout all the orange symbols are accessed via the "FN" key instead of the Pyra key.
What do you think?
EDIT: Okay, you don't need to sacrifice Shift or Tab! Here she is! http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d8cf627251459c7853f7f09b279b424c
The main thing I wanted is to get double-width space, and also to free the pyra key to be used only for menu.
With this layout all the orange symbols are accessed via the "FN" key instead of the Pyra key.
What do you think?
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Saber
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This question really is for everyone but what if(using klapse's layout as reference) the Space key were single width sized and placed at either where keyboard Right Shift, Period, or Enter are? Are those three positions unwieldy for users if Space is placed near the edges?
I prefer it dual-width somewhat near the center, where my thumb finds it easiest.
Silent-Hunter
Hardcore Member
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Put it in the manual. That's my recommendation. Or label them if you want, but I don't think the shoulder buttons will be big enough to label.
Grench
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More markings is good. The Pandora would have had more, but Craig said that the on-case screen printing would be expensive and require another 2 months - so a bunch of us convinced him to go without it.
So - there is a cost factor to consider in the quantity of markings - especially if they're planned for the case plastics instead of the buttons themselves.
That said, it would be cool to have the functions of the shoulder buttons printed over the speaker grills or near there. Without blocking the holes through them of course.
Please no. At least not on action button, for (a lot of IMO) people who want to use them for another purpose and/or who don't want to see these ugly labels on their gaming area: Home/End/PgUp/PgDn.
Saber
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Affirmative. I remember Binky said eons ago the outermost corner keys were the harder to press ones.
I like where Fn is in your layout btw.
Glyph Reader
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I do like the layout. However, why not move / and \ from j k to i o? Also, the layout for the nubs doesn't sit right to me... How can you right click+drag? I can see left click+drag, but not the other.
-Glyph Reader
Not bad, but I still don't see the advantage of a double-width space. If you can't hit a single-width key with your thumb, thumb typing is not going to work anyway.
Fn as a key in the main block (like on the Pandora) is not needed imo if we already have Fn as a shoulder button. Why an Fn key that is easy to press but not a Ctrl or Alt?
Sacrificing the dedicated slash and dash keys just to get a slightly easier to press space and Fn, that's not a very good trade-off in my opinion. But of course preferences can differ on this.
Well the FN key gets used for a lot of punctuation so it makes sense to me to have it labeled on the main keyboard section. I never got used to shoulder buttons for modifiers and I never use Ctrl or Alt on the Pandora, so I am fine with them on shoulder buttons.
SNESFAN
Retro game fanatic
those extra functions are more of an advanced setting anyway. I feel having the option to configure them in the initial setup wouldn't be a bad thing, but you're never going to get everyone to agree on a universal default with silkscreen. Have a suggested default, but don't force any specific layout on everyone. I see no problem having no default other than ABXYLR etc etc.
For example I don't even use the insert/home/pgup/pgdn/end/prntscn/scroll and number locks buttons. I only sometimes use F1-F12 keys if a program requires it. The only special keys I truely ever use is the super key, alt, ctrl, delete, shift, esc, pause and backspace. My uses aren't that of everyone, but I bet the ones I listed are more used that the ones I don't use by everyone universally. Allowing me to set the default individually will have me looking into the manual less, or down at the keys as often. Allow me to set them and I'll set the ones I use to where it makes sense to me. I feel normal users will not set them at all, or set them to their preference.
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The Fn key being used for a lot of punctuation as an argument to dedicate a main block key to it, is a kind of cyclic argument.
In my layout, all of the punctuation needed for normal text is available without Fn: , . ; : ' " - + / ? ! ( & ). You only need Fn for symbols that do not occur in normal text: \ | [ ] { } < = > ` ~.
In your layout, you sacrifice two moderately important punctuation keys (to make room for bigger space and Fn), so now you need Fn for ' " / ?, and then you use the fact that you need Fn for punctuation as a justification for having Fn in the main block.
Regardless of whether you got used to it on the Pandora or not, shoulder buttons are a perfect match for modifier keys. Modifier keys are keys you have to hold down while pressing other keys. For the non-shoulder modifier keys, there are three options:
1. you have two keys per modifier (one on each side) to make all combinations easy to do
2. you put the modifier in the column between the nubs, so it can be reached by both thumbs (though not comfortably)
3. you have only one of them, and make it sticky (like the Fn on the Pandora or the Shift on a typical touch screen keyboard)
Option 1 is not really an option because it wastes too many keys. Option 2 works, but it's not very comfortable for modifiers you really need a lot (i.e. Shift). Option 3 works, but it will only be worthwhile when you don't use the shoulder buttons (e.g. because you put the device on a table). Sticky means you do two sequential thumb presses instead of two more or less simultaneous ones. When the same thumb is needed for both presses (e.g. when Shift is on the right and you want to write a capital P), it's not very efficient.
Anyway, my point is: I don't think it's useful to put any modifier in the main block. I put Shift there in my proposal mostly because there's only room for three modifiers in the column between the nubs, and because it can act as a dedicated compose key or some other extra key.
In my layout proposal, there already are dedicated - and / keys
Action buttons would be Home/End/PgUp/PgDn like on the Pandora, and Ins/Del for the two new ones.
I can't understand how anyone can live without PgUp/PgDn, but maybe I'm wrong. What do you do to get the next page of anything? Do you use a scroll wheel, lots of down arrow presses, click on the scroll bar, or what?
Anyway, nobody wants to force anything. Everyone is free to remap. But demanding that key labels are left (essentially) blank just so you can remap to something different without having incorrect labels is a bridge too far imo. By that reasoning, we better have a completely blank keymat -- that would also save on production cost. Interesting to have a backlit keyboard but no labels, except maybe some uninformative ones like ABXY.
Also, a sensible default key mapping helps application developers and porters to use a sensible default key assignment.
A keymat is a keymat, action buttons are action buttons, PgDn or anything are extra functions and we should chose what we want.
I don't see the utility of having PgDn/PgUP while the right nub is scrolling (how can you see one?), so I will use them as mouse click and I don't want these labels.
We better have a configuration for action button and nubs while not playing when you first use your Pyra so that veryone will chose and modify whenever they want.
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I don't see the utility of mouse clicks at ABXY if the nubs themselves are already clickable. What would you map the nub clicks to?
A scroll wheel does not replace PgUp/PgDn. I need something that moves exactly one page down, and that can be undone by moving back exactly one page up. A scroll wheel is to PgUp/PgDn what a nub is to a dpad.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
But the Y and X buttons are PgUp and PgDn. The dpad is more like hitting arrow keys.
Well, yes, that is what I'm saying. Arrow keys and PgUp/PgDn are discrete cursor movement keys, while nubs used as mouse/joystick or scroll wheels are continuous cursor movement methods. Both are needed. Kiga was saying that Y and X can be mapped to something else because PgUp/PgDn are no longer necessary when the right nub is a scroll wheel. I don't agree with that.
slaeshjag
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Especially when you consider terminal stuff with a TUI, like irssi or vim. Those never work properly with a scroll wheel.
SNESFAN
Retro game fanatic
I do use mouse scroll a lot, and since there isn't anything that functions like that on the device I think pg up/dn is a good alternative. However the option of having it isn't in question, the placement and default labeling is the thing that is subjective.
Blank keymat is absurd, your taking my argument and throwing it to the extreme. Those that argue against qwerty, one of the most popular and standard layouts in the world, should have an aftermarket keymat that has dvorak or whatever they want, but you can't argue against qwerty. Fn key functions can be mapped anywhere on the keyboard because that's actually a normal thing to do, and how often you actually use those functions can be justified as a non standard and suggested mapping.
We are talking about commonly used special keys, ones that will likely used very frequently during each use. Even on a qwerty keyboard (laptops) I've seen lots of variants in those buttons placements. We have to go with a modified qwerty because a lack of buttons. Those special buttons do and should go somewhere but there isn't a standard for additional buttons on a gamepad. That's why I suggest those highly preference based buttons not even be a suggested layout labeled on the buttons. You are extremely unlikely to find a layout that the vast majority agrees on unlike qwerty layout for the keymat.
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