SuperZaxxon v.54 Final has been released!

[danielm]

Huh? :huh:


From the confirmation dialogue box before you proceed with an upgrade using that tool:

This little tool helps you to keep your firmware OS up-to-date with the latest tweaks.


Please note that this is in TESTING state and


might break parts of your system with unstable packages!


Make sure your Pandora is connected to the internet and click the Upgrade-Button.

Oops! I am one of those people who need at least ten red exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!  B) Otherwise I will hit the "OK-button" like a brainless monkey   

Seriously, I thought this was the way to update the OS when a new version gets released. Now I know better ...

 

[comradekingu]

Brainless monkey behavior is part of the test-case.

 

[ArchiMark]

{snip...}

Originally there was no suspend mode, just the low power mode. Then with one of the OS upgrades the proper suspend mode was added. (I don't specifically remember which one, but it may have been when the new kernel and SuperZaxxon were introduced) Because of the limitations I mentioned in my last post however it was set up so that (by default) if the sleep mode it triggered it will suspend if possible to do so, and go into the original low power mode otherwise. (usually this means it goes into low power mode only if the charger is connected at the time when it is triggered)


I hope this clarifies things somewhat.


- Neelix

Ummm....sort of.....

So, does low power mode uses less battery than suspend?

Does suspend wake up faster than low power mode?

:huh:

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Low power consumes more current than suspend to ram.

Resuming times are about the same i think.

 

[danielm]

Originally there was no suspend mode, just the low power mode. Then with one of the OS upgrades the proper suspend mode was added. (I don't specifically remember which one, but it may have been when the new kernel and SuperZaxxon were introduced) Because of the limitations I mentioned in my last post however it was set up so that (by default) if the sleep mode it triggered it will suspend if possible to do so, and go into the original low power mode otherwise. (usually this means it goes into low power mode only if the charger is connected at the time when it is triggered)


I hope this clarifies things somewhat.


- Neelix

Hm, I think I got it now ... no, I didn't

My Pandora was set to standby (= low power?!) in the extended options of the power manager. Shouldn't this be the mode that is OK for charging? On the other side, shouldn't the Pandora switch from suspend to standby when the charger is connected? Shouldn't the screen never be switched on when the lid is closed, independent of what else is going on?

Sorry for being blunt now, but this is irritating the hell out of me! :angry:

In the settings menu in Xfce, there are only lid-close settings and they use the wrong/old terminology. The power manager pops up when the charger is connected, but I couldn't find it in the menu (neither in settings nor in system). I just stumbled over suspend/standby by chance and there is no explanation whatsoever about these two power modes. And what is "set monitor  sleep mode"? Is that the mode that gets activated after a set time or is it the mode when the lid is being closed? What does the lid-close setting do when it is set to standby while the power manager "set monitor sleep mode" is set to suspend? Why is standby even available when it consumes more power than suspend and doesn't allow charging?

I feel like I am getting closer to solving my problem, but I am confused like crazy! Unfortunately this isn't the only quirk I stumbled upon on the Pandora  :huh: (and yes/no, I still love it!  )

 

[ArchiMark]

Low power consumes more current than suspend to ram.

Resuming times are about the same i think.

Thanks for the clarification!

Originally there was no suspend mode, just the low power mode. Then with one of the OS upgrades the proper suspend mode was added. (I don't specifically remember which one, but it may have been when the new kernel and SuperZaxxon were introduced) Because of the limitations I mentioned in my last post however it was set up so that (by default) if the sleep mode it triggered it will suspend if possible to do so, and go into the original low power mode otherwise. (usually this means it goes into low power mode only if the charger is connected at the time when it is triggered)


I hope this clarifies things somewhat.


- Neelix

Hm, I think I got it now ... no, I didn't

My Pandora was set to standby (= low power?!) in the extended options of the power manager. Shouldn't this be the mode that is OK for charging? On the other side, shouldn't the Pandora switch from suspend to standby when the charger is connected? Shouldn't the screen never be switched on when the lid is closed, independent of what else is going on?

Sorry for being blunt now, but this is irritating the hell out of me! :angry:

In the settings menu in Xfce, there are only lid-close settings and they use the wrong/old terminology. The power manager pops up when the charger is connected, but I couldn't find it in the menu (neither in settings nor in system). I just stumbled over suspend/standby by chance and there is no explanation whatsoever about these two power modes. And what is "set monitor  sleep mode"? Is that the mode that gets activated after a set time or is it the mode when the lid is being closed? What does the lid-close setting do when it is set to standby while the power manager "set monitor sleep mode" is set to suspend? Why is standby even available when it consumes more power than suspend and doesn't allow charging?

I feel like I am getting closer to solving my problem, but I am confused like crazy! Unfortunately this isn't the only quirk I stumbled upon on the Pandora  :huh: (and yes/no, I still love it!  )

I'm getting a headache from trying to sort this out....   :blink:

:lol:

 

[danielm]

The power manager is always in the tray area, so I just didn't look for it there when I wanted to change power options.

Anyways, suspend didn't make a diffrence from standby and my Pandora battery is at 94 % after a whole night of charging because the screen was on again with the lid closed ...

 

[F_Slim]

Ah, you have that "stop charge screen on bug" ... damn, where did I read about this? Maybe some offtopic in the wifi-culprit thread? I'm too lazy to go searching now.

It happens to me sometimes as well.

Sometimes my Pandora actually stops charging before it is at 100%. It charges to full 100% after re-inserting the plug.

Sometimes I also found the screen to be on (despite the lid beeing closed) after charging, so same as your problem. For me it happens only very rarely though.

Forgot what exactly is the cause ...

I'm starting to think that my battery is getting old and is causing some problems along the way. Someday I noticed that the system clock was wrong for example. For no reason. There is also rumors battery might have an impact on wifi, and lately I had some slight glitches there as well ... I also have the feeling sometimes that the charge drops faster than it used to ... I have no proof for any of this though, and I may be completely wrong. Battery health is reported to be fine.

 

[danielm]

My battery is still new, so that can't be the problem.

I re-flashed v.54, and the first charging went alright without the screen switching on. But I am very afraid to change any of the power settings because there is still too much confusion! And the Pandora still wakes up when the power supply is plugged in or unplugged, which is not really that great ...

Not very reassuring to see how fragile the OS is :-(

 

[PokeParadox]

My battery is still new, so that can't be the problem.

I re-flashed v.54, and the first charging went alright without the screen switching on. But I am very afraid to change any of the power settings because there is still too much confusion! And the Pandora still wakes up when the power supply is plugged in or unplugged, which is not really that great ...

Not very reassuring to see how fragile the OS is :-(

It's not fragile, it's fluid.

 

[EvilDragon]

As mentioned, the real suspend mode (which the Pandora enters in default setup when flicking the power switch) disables most of the hardware, charging does not work here.

That's why it leaves the suspend mode as soon as the charger chip reports that something has changed (i.e. plugging in or out the power connector).

When that happens, the display switches on.

You should only use suspend when you don't want to charge it.

When you want to charge it, simply plug it in and close the screen.

You can unplug and plug the AC adaptor any time then, it should not enable the display. It will only do that if you were in suspend mode.

The 94% charge have nothing to do with the display though.

A Lithium battery will die on you pretty fast if you try to keep it at 100%.

To ensure a long battery life, it should charge to 100%, then switch off a while (until the battery is at about 92%), then start charging again.

So if you keep it connected to AC, it will always be something between 92% and 100%.

That's nothing fragile, it's how it should be (unless you like to buy batteries every once in a while)

Commercial devices also do that, however, they often have the battery meter patched that anything above 92% appears as 100%, to not confuse the user...

 

[fusion_power]

As mentioned, the real suspend mode (which the Pandora enters in default setup when flicking the power switch) disables most of the hardware, charging does not work here.

That's why it leaves the suspend mode as soon as the charger chip reports that something has changed (i.e. plugging in or out the power connector).

When that happens, the display switches on.

You should only use suspend when you don't want to charge it.

When you want to charge it, simply plug it in and close the screen.

You can unplug and plug the AC adaptor any time then, it should not enable the display. It will only do that if you were in suspend mode.

Hm, that's news for me, I usualy charge in full suspend mode so it charges faster because of the lower system power consumption. ^^"  It works in my case by the way but sometimes the charging stops when the Battery gets fuller. If this is not good there should be a warning not to charge in suspend mode. 

 

[F_Slim]

You should only use suspend when you don't want to charge it.
When you want to charge it, simply plug it in and close the screen.

hmm ... ok, so I also did it wrong the whole time. If I want to charge it over night I always plug it in and flick the power-switch (to make it use as less power as possible and just charge).

So far this worked fine by the way.

h34r: 'd by Fusion_Power there ...

... well, I assume (I hope) that it is smart enough to power down what can be powered down, and leaves on what needs to be left on to ensure it safely charges the battery and doesn't break it(?)

Doesn't it do something similar when you leave the USB-Port on, as it doesn't support suspend? I.e. it leaves it on when in supend or something like that? (Think I never tried, I just remember that it doesn't support suspend).

 

[Neelix]

If you flick the switch while charging it goes into low power mode, not suspend.

Low power mode drops the CPU speed and turns off the radios (if they are enabled) and the screen to minimise power consumption.  The CPU remains active in this mode, allowing the pandora to charge as per normal.

- Neelix

 

[EvilDragon]

Exactly. If it charges, you're not in suspend mode.

 

[danielm]

OK, I think I am beginning to get the picture ... and it's messy ...

- "Low power mode" (LPM) supports charging

- LPM uses more power than "Suspend to RAM" (suspend)

- Flicking the power switch does two different things, depending on whether the power supply is connected or not:

    - Activate suspend, if the power supply is _not_ connected

    - Activate LPM, if the power supply _is_ connected

- The "Lid-Close Settings" only allow LPM, bot _not_ suspend

- LPM is called "Standby" in "Xfce Power Manager"

- The "Xfce Power Manager" only allows suspend as an action for the power and sleep buttons (what exactly are the power button and sleep button?!)

- The "Xfce Power Manager" can send the Pandora to sleep after some time of inactivity, which will activate suspend mode (sleep = suspend?!)

To me this looks like the "Xfce Power Manager" was messing up charging for me(?). When it was set to put the Pandora to "sleep" after some time of inactivity, it activated suspend mode and thereby disrupted the charging process. Since charging does not work in suspend, the Pandora switched to "Power on mode", which also switched on the display.

The whole thing raises _several_ questions: Why?!

The terminology should be cleaned up to not confuse anyone. Can the text in the "Xfce Power Manager" be changed, or does the terminology (also the Wiki) have to be adjusted to what is being used in the "Xfce Power Manager"?

What do the options in "Xfce Power Manager -> "On AC" -> "Monitor"" mean? What is the difference between "Put display to sleep" and "Switch display off"?

What do the options in "Xfce Power Manager -> "Extended" -> "Set monitor sleep mode"" mean? It looks like "Standby" and "Suspend" refer to the Pandora, not the display, because it doesn't fit to "Sleep" and "Off".

The Pandora should enter/remain in LPM when the power supply is connected and suspend mode was requested (by the "Xfce Power Manager"), and enter the suspend mode as soon as the power supply gets disconnected without the user opening the lid or pressing the power button. When the Pandora was in suspend mode while the power supply is being connected, it should enter LPM directly, and not power on or switch on the display (and switch back to suspend on disconnecting the power supply).

When the lid is closed and the display is off, the display should _never_ be switched on, without the user opening the lid or pressing the power button.

Would it be possible to not activate charging when the power supply is connected but the battery is charged above a user set threshold (e.g. 90 %)? My IBM laptop has that option, and it greatly prolongs the lifetime of the battery since it will never pester the battery with a useless charge cycle (e.g. charge from 99 % to 100 %).

Would it be possible to even leave the Pandora in suspend mode when the battery is above the charging threshold and the power supply was connected, or does it have to go at least into LPM to recognize the charging state of the battery?

Could the LED be used to visualize which power mode the Pandora is in? So far we have "Bright" for "Powered on" and "Dimmed" for everything else. How about "Dimmed" for LPM and "Dimmed + pulsating/blinking" for suspend mode?

Sorry for all these requests from someone who can't even help out programming, but I see this as a serious problem that needs to be solved!

And yes, I am aware that I could change my behavior and memorize what the Pandora is going to do under different circumstances, but that is an extremely difficult task. There are so many other things everyone has to remember and I wouldn't want to have to add even more, especially not from a device that is supposed to be fun!

 

[Binky]

/>
"Dimmed + pulsating/blinking" for suspend mode?

Problem there is that there is no software running during suspend that could do the blinking.

As to other stuff, it probably depends on how things are going with Yars. The idea is to create a clean patch that can be applied to upstream updates, so messing with xfce dialogues may be a bad idea.

 

[danielm]

/> "Dimmed + pulsating/blinking" for suspend mode?

Problem there is that there is no software running during suspend that could do the blinking.

As to other stuff, it probably depends on how things are going with Yars. The idea is to create a clean patch that can be applied to upstream updates, so messing with xfce dialogues may be a bad idea.

Yeah, I thought so. But it could also be the other way around: LPM mysteriously pulsating from dimmed to bright, and suspend continuously dimmed.

 This is the first time in my life that I see the word Yars, but it sounds like a great idea

 

[Binky]

/>
This is the first time in my life that I see the word Yars

Short for Yar's Revenge, the nickname for pandoraOS v2.

 

[skeezix]

Yars Revenge was Atari of course; the inspiration for the game was Ray.. was it Ray Kassar? Something like that.

Yar is Ray backwards

Theres your history for the day

jeff