Some personal stuff - and prototypes building!

levi

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Ah right. Literally as far as I can tell the closest translation for glasnost is openness. For transparency, I think you might want прозра́чность, but I see what you were aiming for.
 

pimaster

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Whilst I appreciate ED wanting perfection and exploring different options for improving the case, I was a little amused by the switch controllers when they arrived. I think some of this is wear now but there was a noticeable 'defect' in the plastic.
The best bit is now I understand why those marks appear.
2019-04-24 14.09.55.jpg
If people have ideas on how to fix and are excited to get it done, I'm happy that they're working on it. Don't feel defeated if there are minor marks in the first couple of batches.
 

CrystalGamma

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I'd take any of those cases in the video if it means mass production starts this summer, they're all fine IMO (that's assuming nothing else would cause major stalling instead). Then again I probably won't care about keyboard backlighting (just like for "real" keyboards, because I touch type) and will disable it as soon as possible, so transparent isn't a problem for me …

(Disclaimer: I've been holding off on buying a smartphone for over a year because from my perspective it always looked like Pyra production might be starting the following half year ☹)
 

EvilDragon

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What about the robustness ? Compared to the OP cases ?
Hard to tell with just a few people using them yet :)
But none of the transparent cases have developed any cracks yet, so it seems good.

Incidentally, do I take it that this focus on perfecting the case moulding process means that the shoulder buttons (replete with springs?) are now working perfectly?
No, not yet. Different things are happening at the same time :)
While some work on the material, others work on the fixes for the rest.

I just made a video for the team showing exactly what needs to be fixed. You can find it here:

Please do note that this was not meant to be released to the public, so some stuff might sound weird :)
It's a very thorough explanation what we need to fix here.

Right now, the company is closed (easter holidays) until May 2nd, but work will resume then :)
 

AnimatedFreak

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Hard to tell with just a few people using them yet :)
But none of the transparent cases have developed any cracks yet, so it seems good.



No, not yet. Different things are happening at the same time :)
While some work on the material, others work on the fixes for the rest.

I just made a video for the team showing exactly what needs to be fixed. You can find it here:

Please do note that this was not meant to be released to the public, so some stuff might sound weird :)
It's a very thorough explanation what we need to fix here.

Right now, the company is closed (easter holidays) until May 2nd, but work will resume then :)
You're very good at explaining the issues. Are there any other issues you're making videos on? Is the D-pad glued onto the keymatt like it was on the Pandora?
 

CrystalGamma

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I just made a video for the team showing exactly what needs to be fixed. You can find it here:

Please do note that this was not meant to be released to the public, so some stuff might sound weird :)
Sounds good enough to my ears (except for your pronouncing height as if it were spelt heith or something – it's usually pronounced like the first part of the German word „heiter”).
Anyway, did I understand this correctly that FormAction just neglected to drill in the support pegs featured in your CAD files into the mold? Or did you tell them to hold off on that until the first few samples so you could test something?
 

EvilDragon

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You're very good at explaining the issues. Are there any other issues you're making videos on? Is the D-pad glued onto the keymatt like it was on the Pandora?
Thanks :) I don't think there are any other issues left, except for this one which prevents the shoulder buttons from working properly :)
The DPad is glued on like it was on the Pandora, yes. I tried without, but it doesn't feel as good.
[doublepost=1556126651,1556126368][/doublepost]
Anyway, did I understand this correctly that FormAction just neglected to drill in the support pegs featured in your CAD files into the mold? Or did you tell them to hold off on that until the first few samples so you could test something?
Even weirder! FormAction designed case, so it was their own CAD files!
They can clearly be seen in the 3D Data, but they're missing in the mold!

I didn't notice this at first - before greenlighting the mold, I used 3D printed cases, and of course, everything was correct there!
I didn't expect that stuff from the 3D data would be MISSING! I figured that the 3D data is automatically translated into data for the CAD machine, but it seems there's still some manual interaction, as these support pegs were missing!

Well, and I didn't notice that until I made a thorough inspection why the shoulder buttons caused such issues... this is definitely something you don't expect!
 

Grench

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The Pandora keymat's guide holes are larger in diameter to go around the expanded peg shoulders. It did not look like the Pyra keymat had the same size of guide holes - might require a tweak to the keymat to fit a modified case with support shoulders on the guide pins. You are probably already aware of this - just making sure.
 

EvilDragon

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The Pandora keymat's guide holes are larger in diameter to go around the expanded peg shoulders. It did not look like the Pyra keymat had the same size of guide holes - might require a tweak to the keymat to fit a modified case with support shoulders on the guide pins. You are probably already aware of this - just making sure.
It is big enough. The keymat designers used the 3D data of the case where the pegs exist. It might not look like that in the video, but the space is enough.
 

CrystalGamma

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Does this need new moulds or existing ones can be tweaked ?
I'd imagine with some care this should be doable with the existing moulds (would probably be too expensive otherwise). Generally, adding some plastic (support pegs, extending the shoulder button hinge, making the case thicker around the screen hinges, …) you can do by shaving off more of the mould … removing plastic is (usually) more expensive.
 

Grench

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It is big enough. The keymat designers used the 3D data of the case where the pegs exist. It might not look like that in the video, but the space is enough.
What are the dimensions of the 'missing guide-pin shoulder plastic"? I'm wondering if we can find a suitable nylon washer to fit the prototype cases... That still wouldn't solve the shoulder button though... But every little bit. It is hard to tell the diameter of the pin and the diameter of the keymat hole from the video. Who knows, maybe it winds up being a standard washer size?

Code:
https://www.amazon.com/Guard4U-450Pcs-Black-Washer-Assortment/dp/B06W2LQQRN
 

Djoga'Ro

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@EvilDragon I think, I heard something like not every 3D-CAD modell is usable with CNC-mills or rather the need for a certain structure. Something about how the model is constructed like starting with a block and taking shapes away would be prefered or needed. I'm not terribly sure, though.

Someone more knowledgable than me around?
 

pyrat

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Whow. I know nothing about plastics, mechanics, 3D or the like, and I still could understand the issues. This video is very well explained. I wish I could explain myself as good as you do, EvilDragon. Congratulations. And I wish I had your English pronunciation, despite one height mispronounced, which is a trivia not worth mentioning and doesn't prevent comprehension.

Now, I understand fixing the case would be the best solution.

Only if the case plastics could not be fixed for some reasons: could some rings (some of them partial rings) be produced to add to the case, like spacers, so that the pcb sits firmly on them and them on the case ? It's more complicated (slows down assembly and risks losing parts when selfservicing the Pyra) ) than fixing the moulds, but I only mean it in case fixing the moulds is too difficult, too expensive or too risky. Maybe one can design some additional plastic than can be mounted between the case and the pcb and stays in place because it has the proper dimensions ? If there would be enough room around the pegs, they could maybe be off-the-shelf spacers, like between the buttons, but since in some places the the missing rings are not complete because they touch other bezels in the case, then maybe custom pieces could be moulded, 3d printed, CNC machined or something ?


I'm only saying this because of some recollection that the new company cannot produce moulds, so if trying to fix the moulds would somehow damage them then we'd be back to first step. But I don't know if this damage is a real possibility at all.
 

levi

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As a native english speaker, I didn't notice any words being specifically mispronounced, just the overall slightly german accent. A comedian we have here is a german called Henning Wein and if you were to start correcting his english pronunciation you'd be here all week; ED's english sounds much more natural to my ear.

As I understand the process, adding the rings to the mould is a matter of milling a rim around the peg to the specified depth, so should be easily doable by cnc milling, or even by hand if you were careful and kept measuring. The moulds have I think been hardened already which makes doing this tricky, but no tricker that anything else they've done already to them.
 

EvilDragon

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Does this need new moulds or existing ones can be tweaked ?
It's a bit of plastic that needs to be added, which means it's simply drilling a bit more with a CNC into the metal.
No new moulds are needed here.

It's more complex when you want to REMOVE some plastic (as it means you need to fill it up, a mould is always negative)
 
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