It's software this time!

[Letalis Sonus]

Yeah, but the adaptor doesnt have a buck convertor to provide even the 3.3V let alone the 12V.

Because 5V is the only voltage that is universally available on eSATAp. To quote Wikipedia:

There are only two versions of this port. Most laptop computers do not have 12 V power available, and have an eSATAp port which provides only 5 V. Desktop computers, with 12 V available, have a port with two additional pads, placed against the plug's "horns", which provide 12 V. Some manufacturers refer to these ports as eSATApd, where d stands for "dual voltage". Some devices, such as 2.5-inch drives, can operate off the 5 V supplied by laptop eSATAp ports. Others, such as 3.5-inch drives, also require 12 V; they can be powered from a desktop eSATAp port, but require an external 12 V power supply if used with a laptop computer. This can lead to confusion if users are not aware of the distinction.

 

[CFWhitman]

Wow - there seems to be a lot of confusion around the SATA piggy backing off of the USB 2.0 port by using a USB 3.0 physical port.

Frankly, if you're confused as to what this is - don't worry about it, you don't need it in order to use the Pyra.

What it is: A USB 3.0 physical port has more data lines than a USB 2.0 port. The port on the Pyra is a physical USB 3.0 port jack, but only has the USB 2.0 data lines being used for USB. The -other- data lines on the physical USB 3.0 port are wired to the SATA connection on the SoC. This way, with a simple adapter, the Pyra can directly 'see' a SATA device connected to these data lines. This is -not- a USB to SATA adapter. It is the Pyra being sneaky and using a more complex port to double the functionality of the physical space the port occupies.

Does that help?

I am quite aware of all that, and there was never any confusion on my part about it. What I wondered about, specifically, was that, since the adapter appears to have a regular internal SATA port, why would anyone expect it to furnish power since internal SATA ports never furnish power to the drive? The only kind of SATA port that furnishes power to the drive is eSATAp. You can't tell the difference between a powerless eSATA port and a powered eSATAp port by looking at the outside of the port, so some might expect an eSATA port to furnish power when it actually didn't. Since the port appears to be a regular internal SATA port, there are no power lines to be missing power. There's no need to explain that the power lines are missing on an internal SATA port.

Perhaps the port on the adapter was intended to be an eSATA port, but that could not be sourced, so the explanation about the missing power lines is for a port they ended up not being able to use anyway. It would be more convenient if it were an eSATA port, even without power, but if they couldn't acquire the parts, the internal port that is on the adapter is better than nothing.

Edit: It looks like shielded cables with an internal SATA plug at one end and an eSATA plug at the other are not that hard to find, so it shouldn't be a big deal that the port is not eSATA.

 

[Grench]

There are a few things on the Pyra that are there simply because it is fun for hardware tinker oriented people to play with. SATA lines hidden in an otherwise innocuous USB 2.0 port, a microUSB charging port with serial coms, etc. Nobody should be worrying too much over the SATA data lines and that, "it isn't proper eSATA". It isn't there to be a traditional eSATA. The important bits are there so we can have what we need to tinker with.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

why would anyone expect it to furnish power

Haven't seen a zero energy consumption sata drive, yet.

internal SATA ports never furnish power to the drive

Yes, the sata power ports do.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

There are a few things on the Pyra that are there simply because it is fun for hardware tinker oriented people to play with. SATA lines hidden in an otherwise innocuous USB 2.0 port, a microUSB charging port with serial coms, etc. Nobody should be worrying too much over the SATA data lines and that, "it isn't proper eSATA". It isn't there to be a traditional eSATA. The important bits are there so we can have what we need to tinker with.

That's a nice way to suggest that it's a mess. Can hardware tinkerers not use proper eSATA?

 

[TrashyMG]

That's a nice way to suggest that it's a mess. Can hardware tinkerers not use proper eSATA?

There isn't much difference between SATA and eSATA other than the shape of the connector and how much power can travel in the cable, depending if it is eSATAp or just regular eSATA. Power differences with eSATAp are handled with the Pyra adapter. lacking "proper" eSATA isn't a big deal to me as regular SATA cables are easily found and eSATA is a kind of fading out and I can foresee it getting harder to find these cables due to USB C.

 

[CFWhitman]

Haven't seen a zero energy consumption sata drive, yet.
Yes, the sata power ports do.

Considering there is nothing that even slightly resembles an internal SATA power cable involved, that seems irrelevant.

 

[CFWhitman]

That's a nice way to suggest that it's a mess. Can hardware tinkerers not use proper eSATA?

It would be more convenient if the port on the adapter were an eSATA port. However, since it wouldn't have power either way, and internal SATA to eSATA cables exist, it's far from the end of the world. My combination USB 3 / eSATA drive dock includes an eSATA cable that I won't be able to use with the Pyra, and I will have to get a SATA to eSATA cable instead. So I have a little added expense, but I will be able to use the dock with the Pyra if I want to.

Originally, it was hoped that the Pyra would have a USB 2 / eSATA combination port on the back like many laptops had several years ago, but the advent of USB 3, especially USB C, made those ports basically obsolete and they could no longer be sourced. The only alternative to leaving the SATA lines of the Pyra SoC unconnected and useless was to come up with some sort of custom solution. So, instead of using a regular USB 2 jack, they decided to use a USB 3 jack with extra contacts available and connect those contacts to the SATA lines of the SoC. In order to actually use those contacts, however, they also had to create a custom adapter which would feed those data lines to some sort of proper SATA jack or cable. At one time it seemed (at least to me) that the adapter was going to split out the unconventionally "wired" USB 3 jack to a USB 2 jack and an eSATA jack. However, it ended up being split out to a USB 2 jack and an internal SATA jack. This is again slightly less convenient, but not the end of the world.

 

[Letalis Sonus]

since internal SATA ports never furnish power to the drive?

Actually, powered internal SATA ports is a thing on server motherboards nowadays, for DOMs (Disk-on-Module).

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I actually like that it's an internal port. It will make it easy to use the Pyra to mount an internal drive for data recovery. And it's not hard to find USB to internal SATA power cables.

 

[matzesu]

Beside this whole SATA Discussion, EvilDragon meantioned something like that the first 200 Units get assembled on GC as Trainy Programm for the Employes, so dos this mean my Number 28 in Dark Chrome gets assembled in a more professional way, or dos this means it may got assempled less professional because the Employe who assempled it needs much more experience ?

As i reassambled a big part of my Pandora myself after this incident, i think the Pyra would be definitly much more proffessinal ^^

 

[bennr01]

Now I wonder whether it is possible to get a unassembled pyra as a DIY kit...

Well, knowing my fine motor skills, or rather lack thereof, I'd only mess it up.

 

[matzesu]

Would be just to complex to shipp these Parts, also its not that easy to get a warranty on such a DIY Kit, as you cant sell Electronic Parts whitout Warranty in Germany,
What would happen if you screw something up, and in 2 Months (tm), your LCD Cable broke, ??

Whit the Changable CPU Board, its not a Problem if you Open your Pyra, and this may not avoid your warranty,
And on the Pandora, there was no seal that gets broke if you screw it open (had to fix my Shoulderbuttons some multible times),
So the Pyra may be quite hacking friendly, but assembly is a bit diverent than just open up the Bottompart

 

[Bosbeetle]

I wonder if EvilDragon already decided on the screwtype

 

[zedr0k]

I wonder if EvilDragon already decided on the screwtype

... we should do a poll about the right screws

Gesendet von meinem G8341 mit Tapatalk

 

[matzesu]

I dotnt bother much about the Screws, as long he will use the right Screwdriver:
My Victorinox Cybertool L par Exemple got a realy cool Bit Driver ^^

But if the Poll is allready open, i would be for Torx

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

... we should do a poll about the right screws

Gesendet von meinem G8341 mit Tapatalk

Screw that!

 

[CFWhitman]

I actually like that it's an internal port. It will make it easy to use the Pyra to mount an internal drive for data recovery. And it's not hard to find USB to internal SATA power cables.

Just in case someone might not realize, USB to SATA power cables will only work for 2.5 inch drives. You'd need to do something else for any 3.5 inch drives you wanted to connect.

 

[Phosphate]

Thanks.

I didn't know that.

 

[matzesu]

What if i live in Europa and whe dont have inch ,
Whe only have metric