How to calculate a price for the Pyra

[Urben]

And I find it alarming the amount of people that feel it's acceptable to come into someone's virtual house and tell them that their hand crafted furniture is stupid and expensive and they can get something better for less at IKEA.
Metaphorically speaking.

I find it alarming how much people still care about such statements on one's hand-crafted-furniture instead of ignoring them.

I'm not saying these con-Pyra-users are trolls, but once you feel it is making you upset what they write maybe not replying for the moment is a good idea.
I mean, how long do trolls exist? Its nothing new.

Have a thick skin or a handy banhammer is what I've learned. I'm not browsing this community for long enough to know which one is preferred here. But Arguing-on-the-internet™ for too long is only entertaining for spectators.

(Then again when I'm looking into the keyboard threads I get an idea what is preferred here)

 

[hlidegp2x]

I suppose if the only thing you care about is spec of the SoC or irrelevant touchscreen features then it could be considered outdated.

Sure I won't pay around 700€ (VAT and shipping fees added) for this Pandora clone, the first of which I had no fun after waiting for more two years. What is pretty clear to my eyes is that Pyra does not fit my personal taste and the fact you seem to think it has a unique feature (not sure what it is exactly) which makes it worth while buying at this price is surely not shareable by the vast majority of people who tried my Pandora and this Pyra won't change their minds.

 

[EvilDragon]

I never understood why someone would pay over 1000 EUR for an iPhone, something I would buy for a maximum of 150 EUR (and still prefer an Android phone).
And I know many many people who also think the iPhone is overpriced.

So, so many don't need it, therefore it's crap?
Nope, there are enough that want it for that price. Therefore, it's good that it exists.

The Pyra also has enough people who want to buy it.
Therefore, it's also good that it exists. It's as easy as that.

Simply because you don't need it and think it's overpriced doesn't mean it IS overpriced and no one needs it.
Regardless which device you're talking about.

It's as simple as that.

 

[WizardStan]

I find it alarming how much people still care about such statements on one's hand-crafted-furniture instead of ignoring them

That's fair.

But Arguing-on-the-internet™ for too long is only entertaining for spectators.

Actually i'm having a grand time
I'm visiting in-laws for the holiday so there's not much else to do.

 

[Not_a_Nick]

Not sure where the confusion is, I thought I was being pretty clear. First you seem to inserted some misunderstanding about "rights". I don't see where you got any other idea, but of course they have the right to criticize. Absolutely nothing I said contradicts that.
To your second point, about their right to stand corrected, no they don't:such a right to information violates the rights of everyone else by effectively forcing them to act in a specific and personal way. People may choose to correct the person expressing themselves but that's all it is, a choice, and not doing so doesn't violate anyone's rights.
But like I said, I didn't say anything about that, it's not even tangential, you basically started an entirely new conversation based on... no idea what, some kind of false perception of something.

No no, it's way simpler than that, it is literally what I said: I find it alarming that some random person would just come in and start insulting the decor. Like, what is the purpose? What are they trying to accomplish? Do they think EvilDragon isn't aware of the things that already exist, that by telling him he'll just go "whoop, you're right, how did I miss that? Call the whole thing off"? That's alarming in itself. Are they hoping that he'll change things? Maybe drop the keyboard to make it "competitive"? Because that would mean they did absolutely no research into the design intentions, which is also alarming. Or maybe they just like to hear themselves talk and want to say their piece so that if it all goes south they can claim to have been right which is even more alarming.

It's obvious you totally missed the purpose of my original comment, maybe you felt personally attacked or whatever and the speech escalated, so i'll enlighten you. Calling people with different opinions or that are not informed enough trolls and urging for them to be ignored is a totally childish behavior, and i've seen that around here a few times now. So no need to feel attacked and say i didn't say this or that, because i didn't too. Hope we're clear.

 

[levi]

Ah, so you weren't actually replying to wizardstan. That's a danger on these sort of boards if you don't use quoting.

FWIW, the only person I can find mentioning banning serenity was klapse, who probably did it to make his rawhide themetune gag scan properly. I think we're all agreed that people expressing a preference for other devices is just fine here, even if it's sometimes phrased a bit repetitively in the wrong places.

 

[Yoyobuae]

What is pretty clear to my eyes is that Pyra does not fit my personal taste and the fact you seem to think it has a unique feature (not sure what it is exactly) which makes it worth while buying at this price is surely not shareable by the vast majority of people who tried my Pandora and this Pyra won't change their minds.

So, did someone who tried your Pandora think it was worth the price? I mean if no one though it was worth it you could claim there's no market for Pandora/Pyra.

But if even one person in a thousand thinks Pandora is worth the price and ED can sell Pyras to even 1% of those people then that would be 70 000 sales worldwide.

 

[hlidegp2x]

I never understood why someone would pay over 1000 EUR for an iPhone, something I would buy for a maximum of 150 EUR (and still prefer an Android phone).
And I know many many people who also think the iPhone is overpriced.

I totally agree with you.

So, so many don't need it, therefore it's crap?
Nope, there are enough that want it for that price. Therefore, it's good that it exists.

Did I ever say it is a crap? it doesn't suit my personal taste nor those of people who tried it. That's a different matter.

The Pyra also has enough people who want to buy it.
Therefore, it's also good that it exists. It's as easy as that.

Fair enough, as long as you can capitalize on Pandora success with Pyra. Good for you if you are satisfied with that.

Simply because you don't need it and think it's overpriced doesn't mean it IS overpriced and no one needs it.
Regardless which device you're talking about.

So my opinion as a Pandora owner shouldn't count? you think you can continue to make Pandora clones ad eternam and sell them without probing the old Pandora owners to check if there are enough people with good experience with Pandora to be interested to Pyra and ready to pay the high price? I just received an email about a forum site migration which makes me aware of Pyra today so I'm blatantly expressing MY first experience about Pandora and my doubts about Pyra. But you all seem not so different from those Apple fans which don't appear to accept some criticisms to your favorite toy.

Interested people will surely buy it, I won't.
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So, did someone who tried your Pandora think it was worth the price? I mean if no one though it was worth it you could claim there's no market for Pandora/Pyra.

But if even one person in a thousand thinks Pandora is worth the price and ED can sell Pyras to even 1% of those people then that would be 70 000 sales worldwide.

Well to be honest, "by the vast majority of people" was an euphemism to say: nobody I know who tried would consider buying it. It was cool, but not attractive enough at the time I received it.

 

[EvilDragon]

Did I ever say it is a crap? it doesn't suit my personal taste nor those of people who tried it. That's a different matter.

Naah, that was more directed to posts like Serenitys. If he is who we think he is, we had WEEKS of major trouble years ago at the german boards, that's why matzesu also mentioned the ban.
You can't know that, though.

So my opinion as a Pandora owner shouldn't count?

Yes and no. Opinions do count, but at the same time do not.
An iPhone doesn't interest me, so I would never go to a huge Apple community and tell everyone how not-useful it is.

So opinions of users who do not plan to use it as they can't see why it would be useful or anybody (like the posts from Serenity) don't really count much.
Whereas opinions of users who are interested and plan to use it count a lot more, as they're opinions can help to improve it.

you think you can continue to make Pandora clones ad eternam and sell them without probing the old Pandora owners to check if there are enough people with good experience with Pandora to be interested to Pyra and ready to pay the high price? I just received an email about a forum site migration which makes me aware of Pyra today so I'm blatantly expressing MY first experience about Pandora and my doubts about Pyra. But you all seem not so different from those Apple fans which don't appear to accept some criticisms to your favorite toy.

First off: Why are you calling it a Pandora clone?
Is the Super Nintendo an NES clone?
Is the iPhone6 an iPhone Clone?

Is your car a clone of the very first car that has been built?

The Pyra is not a clone, it is a continuation of the idea, with everything improved that could be improved. Better keyboard, a LOT more CPU power, bigger screen, higher resolution, better connectivity, etc.
It's also the first released mobile device I know of that can be upgraded with a new processor in the future (though that might not be true, I certainly don't know all of the devices out there).

Calling it a clone doesn't really make sense.

Secondly:
You are aware that the Pyra has been developed with the ideas and feedback by Pandora users?
With constructive feedback. Not everything has been implemented (which is not possible), but what was possible (like four shoulder and 6 face buttons) has been done.

Saying "I won't buy it - the Pandora didn't appeal to me anymore as it was outdated" isn't really feedback that helps, does it?
Okay, right now, not much feedback would help, as development is already finished and carved in stone, feedback and opinions were needed over a year ago and respected.

Well to be honest, "by the vast majority of people" was an euphemism to say: nobody I know who tried would consider buying it. It was cool, but not attractive enough at the time I received it.

And still I get at least one or two mails a day asking when the Pandora will be available again...

 

[Yoyobuae]

And still I get at least one or two mails a day asking when the Pandora will be available again...

This is the point I was trying to get at. Just because hlidegp2x can't find someone else which thinks Pandora is worth it doesn't proof that such a person doesn't exist.

It's rather naive to extrapolate to the entire population from just what you see around you.

Fair enough, as long as you can capitalize on Pandora success with Pyra. Good for you if you are satisfied with that.

Despite what you may feel, I don't think Pyra sales will come exclusively from previous Pandora customers.

The niche that Pandora targeted is still alive, and there's still no device which specifically targets it. Devices always miss something. Whether it's keyboard, gaming controls, pocketable size or a full desktop environment. There's just nothing like it.

I have no doubts ED will get both old Pandora customers and brand new customers for Pyra. I guess when all is said and done the sale numbers will tell the story.

 

[FaeMinx]

What I don't find alarming, but terribly amusing... is when a lone sheep wanders into a pack of wolves and starts preeching to them about the superiority of herd mentality.

Naturally a sheep wouldn't understand the point of sharp teeth and claws... obviosly incisors and molars are far superior for chewing grass.

Naturally, the wolves are delighted the sheep wandered their way.

 

[Klumpen]

Did I ever say it is a crap? it doesn't suit my personal taste nor those of people who tried it. That's a different matter.

Yeah, we got that a long time ago. It didn't fit your or your peoples use case, fair enough.
What exactly is the point you are trying to get across?

 

[matzesu]

I like the concept of the Pandora,
A multifunktional Micro PC and a bit like an Swiss Army Knive..
I dotnt care about the price of its succesor as i dotnt have current gen stational consoles like PS3/4 or XBOX or Wii/U and i ditnt smoke..
I was happy whit the Pandora and therefore i wants the Pyra
Also i use an realy old galaxy note 2 as smartphone..
So i think i should have the money..

 

[bzar]

What exactly is the point you are trying to get across?

I think he's trying to say "Sorry, not interested in Pyra." in the most convoluted manner possible

Making vague, non-specific belittling claims regarding the Pyra (as I interpreted them, feel free to rephrase or reinterpret them for me) in a community that has spent countless hours discussing, researching ,debating, drawing, modeling, coding, porting and generally enthusing over it might not be the best approach. In general, the best way to be dismissed with an emotional knee-jerk reaction is to go a place known to be filled with people emotionally/temporally/physically invested in something and then start voicing entirely subjective opinions how you don't like it and then drag the discussion into your right to an opinion. A person going after an emotional knee-jerk reaction is usually a troll, so excuse if you're taken as one when you act like one, even unknowingly. Of course you have the right to your opinion and there's no active censorship here to stop you from voicing it, but please have some decency in how you go about it. I mean, I'm finnish and we're as direct as they come, but what you're doing is not practical unless you are a troll.

It would be more constructive to shape your criticism into suggestions. It's a bit late to implement them for the pyra, but it will be easier to find those in previous threads and see how they were discussed and responded to when the device was still on the drawing board. You may find your ideas were considered, discussed and discarded because of a compromise or a contradiction. If you'd rather see ED do something different, you can state that as a wish as well.

In any case, welcome to the forums. Be nice and have fun.

 

[Eight Bit]

Micro pc Swiss army knife indeed. I use my Pandora daily. I have a decent smartphone but I use it only for instant messaging tbh. Be aware that the Pandora now is not the same as it was when it came out because the software matured a lot.
On my Pandora I code, write, draw, listen to music, watch series, play any of the 1000's of games I have on it, I can use it as a moving light controller or midi interface, I read books and comics on it, copy stuff to/from usb sticks and sd cards, use it as an always on irc client etc.
Sure, some of this stuff I can do with my phone but it's onscreen keyboard and non existent gaming controls are annoying.
Tbh, as soon as I can send sms text messages and make phone calls with my Pyra when I get it, the phone goes out the door.
The configurability of the Pandora is, for me, the key to it's success. It has a few flaws, true. But I think the Pyra Will address most of those. With the frequency I'll use it, it will be well worth the money. As was the Pandora which my daughter wants to have as soon as I receive the Pyra.

Troll or not, I think that Ikea furniture comment was spot on. it's just common decency to keep unconstructive criticism to one's self.

 

[WizardStan]

I think he's trying to say "Sorry, not interested in Pyra." in the most convoluted manner possible

That still doesn't answer the question though: what is the point?
People don't just express their opinion for the sake of expressing them. Seems to me that people expressing opinions do so because they want change or at least validation, and that's what bothers me about those that come here to complain: they either have no history or no idea of the future, they just don't like something and expect it to change to suit them personally.

 

[Not_a_Nick]

Ah, so you weren't actually replying to wizardstan. That's a danger on these sort of boards if you don't use quoting.

FWIW, the only person I can find mentioning banning serenity was klapse, who probably did it to make his rawhide themetune gag scan properly. I think we're all agreed that people expressing a preference for other devices is just fine here, even if it's sometimes phrased a bit repetitively in the wrong places.

There are comments in other threads more obvious in that remark, but yes agree on the dangers of not quoting, anyway maybe i'm too sensitive to mockery when disguised of humour or smiley faces.

 

[rygD]

And I find it alarming the amount of people that feel it's acceptable to come into someone's virtual house and tell them that their hand crafted furniture is stupid and expensive and they can get something better for less at IKEA.
Metaphorically speaking.

Your furniture is stupid. Your decor is ugly, or whatever.

 

[Holliefant]

Really? I mean REALLY? Who cares what who says? As long as you like the pyra and the price, who cares what other people think about it?
Stupid discussion... really

 

[Grench]

Did anyone else find it amusing that a user by the name of 'Serenity' and using art from the Firefly/Serenity TV/movie series is arguing in favor of just being happy with a walled garden and to forget about 'freedom' as it's just a silly thing anyway... It is after all silly to live on the edge and to follow one's own path and instead to follow and conform so that you can be measured to others...

Is it me, or did someone completely miss the point of the story line?