How to calculate a price for the Pyra

[Not_a_Nick]

All computers and Phones and Tablets can be used as emulation tools!

But they're not dedicated to that. There lays the conflict, having a machine that can emulate ,among other things, makes it a choice of yours to potentially infringe software licenses and not something designed to do it.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, my guess is that the GCW is mostly used for emulation and cannot really be used as a computer.


The advertising for it has always been that the 320x200 resolution is perfect for emulating classic games and most released apps are emulators as well.


Therefore, they see it as "emulation" console.


I don't plan to market the Pyra as much as an emulation device as we did with the Pandora.


The Pyra will be a fully fledged pocket PC, and seeing how much stuff ptitSeb has released for the Pandora, I doubt the Pyra will be a mere emulation device, especially as cheap chinese Android tablets can emulate as well.

We have evolved a lot, with the backlit keyboard, the CPU power, the mobile connectivity, etc.


It's not anymore simply an emulation device...

 

[EvilDragon]

For some reason this seems to be an issue for some retailers as they don't want to be at the wrong end of litigation.  I would advertise the Pyra as a Gaming friendly Linux handheld computer and keep Emulation on the low down.  Especially if Paypal is involved.

Yes. While the Pandora was basically an emulation device in the early days, it already has evolved a lot to become a tool for everything (although a bit slow these days).


The Pyra can run a full desktop with full speed FireFox, etc.


It's more a pocketable PC than an emulation device.

 

[fusion_power]

That's indeed an interesting and important point, how you will advertise the Pyra. I'm sure it will find a wider audience than the Pandora did, as long as it is presented to be more than a geek niche device.  The keyboard alone will not sell  the Pyra I guess, today, most people are so touchscreen focused, it will be hard to convince them. Except the nice Blackberry Folks of course.  


But  this also depends onto the Software and how "casual" (yes, bad word) it will be able to use. Pandora was already "usable" but had it's quirks and problems here and there. The Pyra has at least the power to be more "fluid" in whatever it does.

 

[WizardStan]

I don't remember the Pandora being advertised as anything other than a pocket PC, hasn't stopped many from showing up to tell us it can't compete with the existing game consoles.


I fear that it won't matter how you advertise it, there's a stigma of "small console" = "games", and "open source console" = "emulation".

 

[fusion_power]

AFAIK, Pandora was partly announced more as a Pocket-Retro-Gaming-Linux-device, the main intention was AFAIK an Amiga (Emulator) with Keyboard in your pocket, at least from Craigs site...way back then of course. ^^"

 

[PowerGod]

The Playstation 3 was exported to Europe as a PC...


if this doesn't work for the Pyra too I don't know what to say...

 

[Grench]

I don't remember the Pandora being advertised as anything other than a pocket PC, hasn't stopped many from showing up to tell us it can't compete with the existing game consoles.


I fear that it won't matter how you advertise it, there's a stigma of "small console" = "games", and "open source console" = "emulation".

Umm...  the main video of the Pandora on the website's home page ran a constant animated loop of emulated games.


I agree, though, that for the Pyra, emphasizing it's usage as a PC that fits in your hand is the right approach.

 

[Serenity]

Back to the costs:
If you are planning to sell only a few pyra, then the costs increase, as you explained.
But do you think, that it is lucrative or worth to work for it and create it? As I know, it was also a huge effort to get the pandora ready to ship. Now, you create a similar "console" with some improvements. What kind of problem is the pyra solving that the pandora can't do?

Also you wrote:

The Pyra will be a fully fledged pocket PC, and seeing how much stuff ptitSeb has released for the Pandora, I doubt the Pyra will be a mere emulation device, especially as cheap chinese Android tablets can emulate as well.

As you know, the NVidia Shield Handheld costs less than a pyra or pandora and was design to play android games more comfortable. And now, you can run a lot of good emulation on it. And games costs are really low, so it is a really nice gaming console.
The quality of the shield is really amazing. I am pretty sure, that also the pyra will not reach this production quality (but how can you? You are not a big company with lot of money in your backyard).
Also, I forgot to mention: The NVidia Shield has better specs than the pyra: So better quality, better specs and lower price.

Yes. While the Pandora was basically an emulation device in the early days, it already has evolved a lot to become a tool for everything (although a bit slow these days).


The Pyra can run a full desktop with full speed FireFox, etc.


It's more a pocketable PC than an emulation device.

In a world, where everyone has a smartphone, i don't think, you need a full desktop device on a small display which is not optimized on that small screen. You try to make something fit, what doesn't fit. A lot of software on smartphones are optimized for their handling and their screens. And if I want a free OS, I also can buy a Jolla phone (199€).

Microsoft is also planning to create a mobile device, which can be used as a smart phone and a desktop PC. In the future, you will but you smartphone on a "docking station" with monitor, keyboard and mouse and you can do everything on it like it is an PC. And if you leave your work station, you take your phone with you and you have everything in your pocket. I don't think, that the pyra with an slow arm processor will do the same.

 

[EvilDragon]

It seems the Pyra is not a device for you.
I, and most other users here, love having a normal pocketable desktop, nothing of that mobile enhanced UIs.

However, the Pandora is too slow these days, keyboard is missing a desktop, no mobile connectivity.

Also, the costs are only high the first time.
The Pyra is upgradable, so future upgrades (faster processor, etc.) will cost even less than the Shield (or a new Shield).

Additionally, while the Shield is neat, it's too big for me to carry it around.

We've discussed that multiple times already.
If you don't understand the reasons for the Pyra or your interest is simply gaming, then you will always find it too expensive

 

[matzesu]

One monent please, Serenity??
I know from the old gp2x.de Days, there was an ex moderator who was quite fan of serenity and this was also his username one other boards..
This users username was Thrake..

So are you this, Thrake ??

Back to topic: the exact price isnt known yet
But is known, how big the maximal amount of money is, the Pyra will cost??
500 550, 600, 800, 1000 €???

 

[Serenity]

It seems the Pyra is not a device for you.

I think, there is always a better alternative than the pyra for everything you want to do. The thing is not really small to put it in the pocket. The pandora wasn't it also.
And for the price, it is too expensive. But you can't make it cheaper, because the interest of this thing is not really huge.
If this would be a device, which solves a problem, nothing else is able to do it also, than the interest of it would be much greater. But as you see, it's not.

Take a look at the Jolla tablet, the first crowd founding tablet: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jolla-tablet-world-s-first-crowdsourced-tablet#/
It is simply a tablet will sailfish OS, an open source OS, good specs and little bit better hardware specs than other tablets, but has a lot of more supporter and buyers than the pyra and pandora together. And it's also not something else than other tablets. Maybe the people love it to have multi-threaded device or it is the fact, you can use a SD card in it. I also think about to buy it, but I already has 2 tablet devices and I don't use any of them really.

@matzesu: Add your tax of your country to 500€ and you will get an approx. price for the pyra.

 

[matzesu]

Pandora fits super in my pokets,
I think you should not use this awefull skinny jeans thrake..

Also this is the thread for the pyra price not for the "the pyra dosnt make sense" ..

 

[EvilDragon]

I think, there is always a better alternative than the pyra for everything you want to do. The thing is not really small to put it in the pocket. The pandora wasn't it also.
And for the price, it is too expensive. But you can't make it cheaper, because the interest of this thing is not really huge.
If this would be a device, which solves a problem, nothing else is able to do it also, than the interest of it would be much greater. But as you see, it's not.

Take a look at the Jolla tablet, the first crowd founding tablet: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jolla-tablet-world-s-first-crowdsourced-tablet#/
It is simply a tablet will sailfish OS, an open source OS, good specs and little bit better hardware specs than other tablets, but has a lot of more supporter and buyers than the pyra and pandora together. And it's also not something else than other tablets. Maybe the people love it to have multi-threaded device or it is the fact, you can use a SD card in it. I also think about to buy it, but I already has 2 tablet devices and I don't use any of them really.

@matzesu: Add your tax of your country to 500€ and you will get an approx. price for the pyra.

Well, then show us your alternatives
Many have tried, but all have failed.

Where is your upgradable MiniPC with Gamecontrols and a fully OpenSource system which can be properly used without creating an account with some company.

And no, not multiple devices, but one that offers all that.

Many users have tried to show alternatives, all have failed so far.

If such a device would exist, I'd be a happy man, as I would have saved me the hassle developing it, I would simply sell it in my shop

But yes, now that matzesu mentioned it, you actually sound a lot like Thrake back then
Always bashing and dooming the Pandora, as it's a useless device... and support and demand for the doomed Pandora is still strong.

If I put 10 units in stock, they're usually sold within 30 - 60 Minutes

It seems you really don't understand what the Pandora or Pyra is all about.
But well, I'm happy to see your alternatives, please share them with us

 

[Serenity]

Well, then show us your alternatives
Many have tried, but all have failed.

Where is your upgradable MiniPC with Gamecontrols and a fully OpenSource system which can be properly used without creating an account with some company.

Devices shall resolve problems in your life. In that case, i have a question: What do you want to do with it? What problem do you have, that anything else except the pyra can't solve?
I can't exactly answer your question, because you are (of course) creating an individual device which is not similar to other ones, that 's true. But as you see, nearly nobody in the world need your device, otherwise everybody would buy it. It solves not any problem, people really have.

I don't know, what's your problem with closed source software or have an account. I would also create an account if I would buy something in your shop, because it is easier to make more orders in the future. Also, i have a Microsoft account for my phone and my console, where all my informations are saved. It was really easy when I bought a new phone: I entered my account information and all my contacts and all my apps are automatically installing again. Is that something negative? I don't think so...

 

[Neelix]

It is simply a tablet will sailfish OS, an open source OS, good specs and little bit better hardware specs than other tablets, but has a lot of more supporter and buyers than the pyra and pandora together.

Given that the Pyra isn't even available for sale yet, isn't it rather disingenuous to claim that anything has more supporters or buyers? Maybe that will turn out to be true, but there's no way of knowing that until after the fact. Put simply, until it goes on the market and we start seeing some real sales figures all we can do is speculate. I'm not as pessimistic as you seem to be and I rather suspect that the Pyra's actual sales figures may end up surprising you.

-Neelix

 

[klapse]

Trollin' trollin' trollin'. Keep them dawgies trollin. Keep them dawgies trollin - Rawhide!

Don't try to understand 'em, just rope, tie and ban 'em. Make a hasty end to - their ride.

 

[matzesu]

I wouldnt ban serenity, because this would put bad light on our side,
Where ditnt can handle "critics" and whe ban everyone who says something against our opinions..

One and only:
This thing is a Hobby, who cares what it costs?? Or which other thinks can make it better??
If the peaple are happy whit theryre expensive toys, and they ditnt harm others whit it, just let they be

 

[EvilDragon]

Devices shall resolve problems in your life. In that case, i have a question: What do you want to do with it? What problem do you have, that anything else except the pyra can't solve?
I can't exactly answer your question, because you are (of course) creating an individual device which is not similar to other ones, that 's true. But as you see, nearly nobody in the world need your device, otherwise everybody would buy it. It solves not any problem, people really have.

Ahh, which poses the next question:
Where can I see that nobody buys it?
If it is you, Thrake, then you predicted the same for the Pandora, which was in fact more successful than I ever thought it would be.

All I know is that I made a limited and risky pre-preorder, which sold out within a couple of days (which I also didn't expect).

And I know that any Pandora I can still build sells within minutes when I put it in the shop.

So I wonder where that "no interest" claim comes from. You did a market analysis? Can I see that?

I don't know, what's your problem with closed source software or have an account. I would also create an account if I would buy something in your shop, because it is easier to make more orders in the future. Also, i have a Microsoft account for my phone and my console, where all my informations are saved. It was really easy when I bought a new phone: I entered my account information and all my contacts and all my apps are automatically installing again. Is that something negative? I don't think so...

It's not bad when it's optional, but you can't even install the free software from the Google Play Store without opening an account, and that's annoying.

If I want to create an account out of convenience, that's fine, it's my choice, but being forced to create one just to download free stuff, that's annoying.

Not just for me, but for many other members here as well.

I have the feeling you still don't understand that neither the Pandora nor the Pyra were ever to be devices for the mass market. They don't need to sell in millions of quantities to be successful, that's perfectly fine.
But I got the feeling that 's something you never understood and will probably never understand.

Devices shall resolve problems in your life. In that case, i have a question: What do you want to do with it? What problem do you have, that anything else except the pyra can't solve?

Oh, that's easy.
I don't do many phonecalls, but I love to play games and use the internet on the go.
The Pandora is too slow to be used with modern websites these days, it's also lacking 3G/LTE.

My current smartphone is a Droid 4, which is a bit dated, so websites don't work that well anymore as well.

I can't stand touchscreen keyboards, so I can't get a new phone these days.
Additionally, I hate how most websites show you a crippled mobile version when using a smartphone, and the desktop version often has issues on the smartphone browsers.

And if you're on a trip and want to work on some OpenOffice documents, that's also impossible with a smartphone.

And playing on the smartphone.... naaah, I tried playing Sonic 2 with touchscreen, it was horrible.

So I want a modern mobile device with keyboard (which rules out all modern smartphones and tablets), internet connectivity and small enough for my normal pockets.
I don't care much about phonecalls, it's good enough for me if I can do one if need be.
When I'm on a longer trip, I can take a small phone with weeks of battery power if need be.

So I'm missing a versatile, small mobile device with keyboard and PC functionality.
Which does not exist, unless I want to take tons of different devices with me.

 

[Serenity]

It's not bad when it's optional, but you can't even install the free software from the Google Play Store without opening an account, and that's annoying.

You can! It is more complicated but you can!
You have to install a different store through a apk package.

Oh, that's easy.
I don't do many phonecalls, but I love to play games and use the internet on the go.
The Pandora is too slow to be used with modern websites these days, it's also lacking 3G/LTE.

My current smartphone is a Droid 4, which is a bit dated, so websites don't work that well anymore as well.

I can't stand touchscreen keyboards, so I can't get a new phone these days.
Additionally, I hate how most websites show you a crippled mobile version when using a smartphone, and the desktop version often has issues on the smartphone browsers.

And if you're on a trip and want to work on some OpenOffice documents, that's also impossible with a smartphone.

And playing on the smartphone.... naaah, I tried playing Sonic 2 with touchscreen, it was horrible.

So I want a modern mobile device with keyboard (which rules out all modern smartphones and tablets), internet connectivity and small enough for my normal pockets.
I don't care much about phonecalls, it's good enough for me if I can do one if need be.
When I'm on a longer trip, I can take a small phone with weeks of battery power if need be.

So I'm missing a versatile, small mobile device with keyboard and PC functionality.
Which does not exist, unless I want to take tons of different devices with me.

Blackberry Passport?