Drudge Report....

[craigix]

There is no DRM, but it does have the ability to track who leaked anything. Although I hope the Pandora scene might be basically honest and support itself.

So, it watermarks the content then? You might want to put that in big bold red text somewhere on the download screen. Effectively this means that although we don't have to link the content to the device in order to play it - the content is linked to our payment history. Would this also make the purchaser personally liable for damages if the content they purchased that later appeared in the wild? I'm not opposed to this - but I think it should be spelled out front and center and not in page 5 of some document that nobody would read. Loosing a 32GB SDHC card full of apps could result in a huge personal liability though. It may be safer from a user perspective to have DRM checking to a registered SD card - but that would be harder to set up and would see resistance from some of the community.

I think that would be judged on a case by case basis and is also up to the app creator.

 

[TheRain]

Re: appstore for pandora stuff yada yada

This is really awesome news craig! The game that I'm working on for the iPhone will most likely be on here too.

 

[WizardStan]

About tracking who leaks packages, what will you do about it? Deny further access? How can you make sure this person won't find some other means of access? Take legal action?

Seems to me that, if you discover someone has leaked some software, and you trace it back to an account, you just lock the account. Everything they've paid for can no longer be downloaded. Nothing stops them from creating a new account and doing the same thing, but one can hope that the risk of losing the stuff they've paid for and having to start over with their pirating scheme would be enough.
With the ability to contest the lock, of course. You shouldn't be penalized if your Pandora is stolen.
Legal action is a valid course if they so choose to press charges.

Dunno if it would work better or worst, but what about not controlling distribution? Let anyone download the software and redistribute it but make it clear that using it is illegal without paying the cost of the software (ie. with a notice on the splash screen or similar). Maybe allow for a trial period in this license.

I have no idea what you're talking about, but it appears to be completely different from what Craig has said. There's no extra "control" per se that he's suggesting. He's said that when you pay for and download something from the repository, the PND is automatically stamped somehow so that, if it appears on the net especially, they can look at the stamp and trace it back to the account that leaked it. It's not intended to stop people from downloading, I think it's supposed to encourage people to not distribute it.

 

[Tobs]

Very good choice about the DRM, but then you're clever people, unlike the businessmen who seem to have the most say in most digital distribution stores.
I think, as ever, it'll come down to the people who will buy it will buy it, and people who will pirate it won't buy it anyway. DRM only seems to aggravate the people in the "will buy it column" into just pirating it 'cause it's easy.
Of course, the watermarking system will be cracked (because rarely is it not) but it'll probably do its job of deterring average joe swapping his PND with his friends.
Only concern might be that large developers want to integrate their own DRM into their apps (because managers think it's the best thing to do and will clamp out piracy 100%), so it might be worth implementing a DRM system but letting authors choose if their app is part of it.

Looking forwards to the appstore, I'd definitely invest in pandora development...

Tobs

[edited to make it clearer]

 

[craigix]

Without having read the topic completly

Isn't this what the file archive is for?

This sounds absolutly stupid to me as its completly redundant work. I would like to see some improvements on EDs file archive design (all of them, including the gp32x one), but its nothing major as they work..

The licence on the archive does not allow us to do that.

 

[WizardStan]

Without having read the topic completly

Isn't this what the file archive is for?

No. The file archive is just a website with download links. Dress it up in an automatic install clicky client, and you get a standard repository.
This adds log in, history tracking, watermarking, paying for apps, everything that a file archive/standard repository doesn't do.

 

[dentrado]

Anyone can upload, there are options exactly for our scene like 'previous version free, current version pay for' and 'spare change auto donate', which if you have less than 99c in your account will donate it to a free bit of software (randomly or you can choose). I'm quit excited about that feature.

Sounds good, a donation system for open-source/free software is a must.

 

[Unfathomable Depths]

Without having read the topic completly

Isn't this what the file archive is for?

This sounds absolutly stupid to me as its completly redundant work. I would like to see some improvements on EDs file archive design (all of them, including the gp32x one), but its nothing major as they work..

Paid for content means support is included. I personally think that's where it'll fall down.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Dunno if it would work better or worst, but what about not controlling distribution? Let anyone download the software and redistribute it but make it clear that using it is illegal without paying the cost of the software (ie. with a notice on the splash screen or similar). Maybe allow for a trial period in this license.

I have no idea what you're talking about, but it appears to be completely different from what Craig has said. There's no extra "control" per se that he's suggesting. He's said that when you pay for and download something from the repository, the PND is automatically stamped somehow so that, if it appears on the net especially, they can look at the stamp and trace it back to the account that leaked it. It's not intended to stop people from downloading, I think it's supposed to encourage people to not distribute it.

I was suggesting a far more relaxed system, maybe too much. The idea is to allow downloads uncontrolled, it will work more like a free repository. Also redistribution is allowed too. The benefit is the ability to reach more users, and hopefully the number of paying users would be enough to make a profit.

But that's were the problem is: what if the entire userbase are freeloaders? Then it won't work at all.

That's why I said is was utopia-like. One can hope though.

 

[second exodous]

As far as code that open source and just ported to the Pandora it should be put in a Ångström repository just to spread the work back into the Linux community. I would think Craigs App Store would just be for games to be sold, not necessarily a place to put ported code. I don't know if there is a GUI for the Ångström repositories(I know how some people hate the command line) but if at all possible it would be better to put ported software in there.

 

[MooTheKow]

Without having read the topic completly

Isn't this what the file archive is for?

Speaking of the file archive -- anyone have any idea when people are actually going to put things like emulators in it? If we truly are nearing the date when we're going to get our Pandoras - is there actually going to be software available to run on them by the time we get them?

 

[second exodous]

Without having read the topic completly

Isn't this what the file archive is for?

This sounds absolutly stupid to me as its completly redundant work. I would like to see some improvements on EDs file archive design (all of them, including the gp32x one), but its nothing major as they work..

Wait, what? I don't get what you're saying. You mean you still want to go here and manually download and install stuff?

Eventually this community needs to mature and use modern software facilities. We need to make our own repository or use the Ångström repositories to store software we port. For commercial games/homebrew closed source, basically everything that you need to buy, we need to use the App Store that Craig is working on.

This 'unzip zip file here and put roms there or here or edit this file to say your roms are here and then make a save directory here before you play this game' is ridiculous, a repository is soo much easier. It will do two things, force people to follow standards in programming for the Pandora there for making the system faster and more stable and easier to debug and make using the Pandora a lot easier to use for the average person.

 

[Dead1nside]

Is this just for applications then? It does appear to create a split between the traditional repositories for system software (like Angstrom) and also duplicate in a way the efforts the file archive.

I do agree that there should be the opportunity for developers to get paid for their work in this way. Although I'm worried about pay barriers being erected.

I think piracy is a relative non-issue as long as prices are right. I'm more inclined to give my money to a developer if there's no DRM and I get obvious value for money. Like in the Steam sales, World of Goo. Also a donations system sounds good as well.

Won't there be legal implications of effectively selling software instead of giving it away, as someone mentioned support obligations, having to say conform to the EU Distance Selling Regulations and all of that? I guess it depends where the server is hosted?

I think you should definitely consult the community on this one, a lot, as we're the potential customers. First thing's first though eh, lets get the Pandora's out

 

[WizardStan]

I was suggesting a far more relaxed system, maybe too much. The idea is to allow downloads uncontrolled, it will work more like a free repository. Also redistribution is allowed too. The benefit is the ability to reach more users, and hopefully the number of paying users would be enough to make a profit.

But that's were the problem is: what if the entire userbase are freeloaders? Then it won't work at all.

That's why I said is was utopia-like. One can hope though.

So, regardless of whether someone has paid or not, everyone has access to the download? And it just falls entirely on the honour system that they've paid the right amount of money? That doesn't sound utopian, that sounds dangerous. I don't think it's a good idea because it removes the wall from casual piracy; ie accidentally downloading something without paying for it, and forgetting to go back to pay for it later, or even realizing that you should have paid for it.

 

[Yoyobuae]

I was suggesting a far more relaxed system, maybe too much. The idea is to allow downloads uncontrolled, it will work more like a free repository. Also redistribution is allowed too. The benefit is the ability to reach more users, and hopefully the number of paying users would be enough to make a profit.

But that's were the problem is: what if the entire userbase are freeloaders? Then it won't work at all.

That's why I said is was utopia-like. One can hope though.

So, regardless of whether someone has paid or not, everyone has access to the download? And it just falls entirely on the honour system that they've paid the right amount of money? That doesn't sound utopian, that sounds dangerous. I don't think it's a good idea because it removes the wall from casual piracy; ie accidentally downloading something without paying for it, and forgetting to go back to pay for it later, or even realizing that you should have paid for it.

Yes, I guess there's a myriad of potential problems. So perhaps let's just forget it for now. It's just that these issues worry me as a developer myself. I would preffer a method that gives users what they want (share) but at the same time allow developers to make some profit.

Let's hope tracking and banning leakers is enough of a deterrent to prevent too massive amounts of piracy.

 

[Asmo]

I suppose preorder 'Dev fund' donators won't get any initial credits for the donations made? Or will there still be free stuff on the archive / repository? We've moved on from encouraging donations because "you'll probably never have to pay for any software".

 

[DasFool]

I like this idea. Remember, not everything available through this "appstore" has to be charged for. It's just a simpler distribution method for those less technically inclined.

 

[Unfathomable Depths]

This is a great platform.

It runs a modern, multi-tasking OS. Its connected via wi-fi, USB, bluetooth and cheap SD cards. It fits in your hand.

There is room for people like me, who release hobby projects, people like Craigix, EvilDragon and MWeston who have more than an emotional attachment. People like Pickle, Cpasjuste, DaveC. People like jourdy and naw(mcx),,

I've never seen a project like this and I'm glad I'm part of it.

 

[Poem58]

So how does this affect those of us who do not have credit cards/paypal accounts etc? Is this a complete replacement for the File Archive? Is this just a better framework that allows all software to be downloaded or is this separate for Pay content only? Just curious as reading the thread is always just as confusing as making it up in your head...lol
No, seriously. Just want to clarify what is being discussed here. Given the way things are for me, there will be no way for me to add money to some account to be able to download files (couldn't buy on iTunes either, not that I would) I hope in the future this could be an option for me, but for right now it isn't. So i hope this isn't going to cause a problem using my new Pandora.

 

[Alec]

Will this App Store only distribute paid-for software or will it host free applications too? Will it be possible to make a donation to the author through the system?