Drudge Report....

[Unfathomable Depths]

A nice solution with a community as small as this is a unique identifier built into the app. Say, 3 discoloured pixels in a sprite. Easy to code and easy to track. If we find an app in the wild with the same identifier we name and shame.

Record companies do this all the time with press pre-releases. A small error built into the CD/MP3 that gives away who distributed it.

One of the best things about the GP2X was that when a pirated app showed up it was deleted from the trackers - most people wanted to support the platform.

 

[borgqueenx]

A nice solution with a community as small as this is a unique identifier built into the app. Say, 3 discoloured pixels in a sprite. Easy to code and easy to track. If we find an app in the wild with the same identifier we name and shame.

Record companies do this all the time with press pre-releases. A small error built into the CD/MP3 that gives away who distributed it.

One of the best things about the GP2X was that when a pirated app showed up it was deleted from the trackers - most people wanted to support the platform.

That would be cool for pandora. A device without piracy is good and tempting for dev's.
But il always support try before you buy. And that includes piracy if i have to.

 

[j6cubic]

The app store should not be open source though, it would make the games easier to crack and that will bounce of developers and conpanys.

borgqueenx makes an excellent argument for why the app store must be open-source: It keeps away the conpanies. I don't know about you but I don't want to be conned so keeping away conpanies is a good thing.


Seriously, though, the other posters made the most important arguments already. On that hasn't yet explicitly been made is that Apple wants to retain control over their platform to the highest possible degree – the iPhone/iPod touch is a closed system designed to only run Apple-approved software.
The Pandora is a general-purpose computer designed to run random open source software. Thus, a closed app store is not really useful, since everyone can just use an alternative app store and there's nothing to keep them from doing so. Locking down the platform wouldn't make sense as openness is its main design goal – it's as if Microsoft made the next version of Windows run only on Macs.

The smartest way to go about it is to make the app store open source and run an official instance of it, complete with policies about what gets in and what doesn't. All the real game developers will flock to the official store because that's the trusted one. Whetever doesn't get included with the official store can still use an unoffcial one. If the store software is designed from the ground up with security in mind, we get all the advantages of a closed store without any of the drawbacks.

To put it in an iPhone analogy: We get both the App Store and Cydia, both using the same technology, without anyone having to jailbreak their system.

 

[Unfathomable Depths]

A nice solution with a community as small as this is a unique identifier built into the app. Say, 3 discoloured pixels in a sprite. Easy to code and easy to track. If we find an app in the wild with the same identifier we name and shame.

Record companies do this all the time with press pre-releases. A small error built into the CD/MP3 that gives away who distributed it.

One of the best things about the GP2X was that when a pirated app showed up it was deleted from the trackers - most people wanted to support the platform.

That would be cool for pandora. A device without piracy is good and tempting for dev's.
But il always support try before you buy. And that includes piracy if i have to.

What? You are arguing against DRM then saying you will pirate?

Clownshoes, fucking clownshoes.

 

[second exodous]

Well, if Craig doesn't make an app store that will run on multiple platforms someone else will. I think Conical, the company behind Ubuntu, is going to do this for x86 Linux, maybe all Linux platforms. At the very least it will be on Ubuntu.

Like I said, an app store is just a repository that you pay to get the apps off of it. Every distro has repositories but none have implimented a pay system yet. I remember click-n-run from Lindows did it first, way before Apples App Store, and I bought a few things over it, unfortunately I used Gentoo at the time so I only used it on my second machine.

These ARM Linux devices, specifically the ones powered by Ti corp. chips, create a unique opportunity to make a App Store to blanket these devices. Sure, none of these devices will sell million of units, but if you add up all the Pandoras, Touch Books, Archos tablets, Beagle Baords, basically every thing that runs these chips/Linux together then you have quite a few devices that could use your App Store. Craig also sells a lot of these devices so he is more on the inside to do this.

I said it before, every distro has a repository. The only difference between a repository and an app store is a payment system.

 

[WizardStan]

I said it before, every distro has a repository. The only difference between a repository and an app store is a payment system.

Log on and server side memory (ie, it remembers what you've purchased so you can download again) are definite pluses.

 

[second exodous]

I said it before, every distro has a repository. The only difference between a repository and an app store is a payment system.

Log on and server side memory (ie, it remembers what you've purchased so you can download again) are definite pluses.

Well, if you're registered to buy apps a history could be attached to your account. If your iPhone gets stolen can you buy another and re-download everything you ever bought?

 

[NLS]

I said it before, every distro has a repository. The only difference between a repository and an app store is a payment system.

Log on and server side memory (ie, it remembers what you've purchased so you can download again) are definite pluses.

Well, if you're registered to buy apps a history could be attached to your account. If your iPhone gets stolen can you buy another and re-download everything you ever bought?

Well, I don't own an iPhone. But with Steam, every purchase is connected to your account, so you can freely (re)download any games that you own. I'd be looking for something like this in an App Store for Pandora.

 

[second exodous]

I said it before, every distro has a repository. The only difference between a repository and an app store is a payment system.

Log on and server side memory (ie, it remembers what you've purchased so you can download again) are definite pluses.

Well, if you're registered to buy apps a history could be attached to your account. If your iPhone gets stolen can you buy another and re-download everything you ever bought?

Well, I don't own an iPhone. But with Steam, every purchase is connected to your account, so you can freely (re)download any games that you own. I'd be looking for something like this in an App Store for Pandora.

Well, since you have to register to buy things that shouldn't be a problem. I think this is why steam users are ok with DRM, you can't back up what you download but you can always re-download it from them.

 

[Aninhumer]

Well, since you have to register to buy things that shouldn't be a problem. I think this is why steam users are ok with DRM, you can't back up what you download but you can always re-download it from them.

You can also back it up.

 

[second exodous]

Well, since you have to register to buy things that shouldn't be a problem. I think this is why steam users are ok with DRM, you can't back up what you download but you can always re-download it from them.

You can also back it up.

Oh, I didn't know for sure, I thought it was tied to your processor or something so if you wanted to install it on your new computer you had to re-download it. That's what I heard but I never used it before.

 

[WizardStan]

I said it before, every distro has a repository. The only difference between a repository and an app store is a payment system.

Log on and server side memory (ie, it remembers what you've purchased so you can download again) are definite pluses.

Well, if you're registered to buy apps a history could be attached to your account. If your iPhone gets stolen can you buy another and re-download everything you ever bought?

Yes, that's the ideal, but it's not required in the "app store is just a repository with payment" comparison. A repository has no recollection of what you've purchased, it relies on your client to know what has and has not been downloaded. An easy way to implement it without changing the repository is that you need a "code" (automatically generated, stored, and sent) to download certain applications. You purchase, your client is given the code, and when you download from the repository it transmits the the package. No code, it refuses the package.
The benefit to that would be that it wouldn't require a huge change to any repository systems: no log in, no history, no nothing; just check if the code is valid or not. Anything that doesn't require a code doesn't also require a log in then! This is something that has really annoyed me with other things: why do I need to create an account to download free stuff? Just gimme the goods and if I want to buy your for-purchase stuff I'll create an account then!
Anytho, the downside to this is that only the one client is then able to download, and if your computer crashes the codes are lost.
Unless we combine the two: a server that remembers your login and will refresh your codes, and the repository server which accepts these codes.
As an added bonus, if a developer discovers that someone is copying the download code, they can just change it and refresh it to through this history server.
Everyone wins!

 

[craigix]

There is no DRM, but it does have the ability to track who leaked anything. Although I hope the Pandora scene might be basically honest and support itself.

The appstore can be accessed by the Pandora or a browser on your pc/mac/etc. You get a PND file, and it does keep track of your history.

Anyone can upload, there are options exactly for our scene like 'previous version free, current version pay for' and 'spare change auto donate', which if you have less than 99c in your account will donate it to a free bit of software (randomly or you can choose). I'm quit excited about that feature.

You can charge your account via paypal or card.

The first version will be invite only from this weekend - it's likely it will be dev tested for a while.

It also supports the wiz and dingoo to some extent.

 

[second exodous]

There is no DRM, but it does have the ability to track who leaked anything. Although I hope the Pandora scene might be basically honest and support itself.

The appstore can be accessed by the Pandora or a browser on your pc/mac/etc. You get a PND file, and it does keep track of your history.

Anyone can upload, there are options exactly for our scene like 'previous version free, current version pay for' and 'spare change auto donate', which if you have less than 99c in your account will donate it to a free bit of software (randomly or you can choose). I'm quit excited about that feature.

You can charge your account via paypal or card.

The first version will be invite only from this weekend - it's likely it will be dev tested for a while.

It also supports the wiz and dingoo to some extent.

What if you put another version of Linux on the Pandora or it's stolen? Can you log in to the Pandora app store and get everything you once had and get it again without the PND file?

 

[Grench]

There is no DRM, but it does have the ability to track who leaked anything. Although I hope the Pandora scene might be basically honest and support itself.

So, it watermarks the content then? You might want to put that in big bold red text somewhere on the download screen. Effectively this means that although we don't have to link the content to the device in order to play it - the content is linked to our payment history. Would this also make the purchaser personally liable for damages if the content they purchased that later appeared in the wild? I'm not opposed to this - but I think it should be spelled out front and center and not in page 5 of some document that nobody would read. Loosing a 32GB SDHC card full of apps could result in a huge personal liability though. It may be safer from a user perspective to have DRM checking to a registered SD card - but that would be harder to set up and would see resistance from some of the community.

The appstore can be accessed by the Pandora or a browser on your pc/mac/etc. You get a PND file, and it does keep track of your history.

I like this part of the plan. Would it include free re-downloads of content then?

Anyone can upload, there are options exactly for our scene like 'previous version free, current version pay for' and 'spare change auto donate', which if you have less than 99c in your account will donate it to a free bit of software (randomly or you can choose). I'm quit excited about that feature. You can charge your account via paypal or card.

Very nice - but I don't see how someone will have cash in their account since payments will happen via paypal or card...

Will users also be able to order hardware through the site? I.e. a new Pandora (when they are stocked), power adapters, styli, etc?

Keep up the good work!

 

[Yoyobuae]

I agree with no DRM approach. All it causes is expense developing it (or licensing it from someone) and eventually it's broken (the fact that it exists will entice someone to break it).

About tracking who leaks packages, what will you do about it? Deny further access? How can you make sure this person won't find some other means of access? Take legal action?

To me it seems it's just too problematic trying to control software distribution.

Dunno if it would work better or worst, but what about not controlling distribution? Let anyone download the software and redistribute it but make it clear that using it is illegal without paying the cost of the software (ie. with a notice on the splash screen or similar). Maybe allow for a trial period in this license.

Like this, the software is bound to spread wildly. Not everyone will pay for it though. Yet even the "pirates" will increase software's popularity and help spread the word. So even they contribute a bit.

On the other hand, some part of the users won't be very comfortable using the software illegally. This people would probably pay for the license to use the software. As long as a significant percentage does this, then profits can be made. The price would need to be set to the sweetspot that makes the most profits.

Another point to convincing users to go legal would be that they are supporting the developers doing so. They are in fact helping themselves by supporting the developers, as they will get more/better software as a result.

Now all this is very utopia-like, so feel free to disregard it. Also probably not appropiate for a small market as the Pandora users. Just my ideas of what I would like to see. It's certainly much better than all the DRM crazyness happening these days.

 

[craigix]

The appstore can be accessed by the Pandora or a browser on your pc/mac/etc. You get a PND file, and it does keep track of your history.

I like this part of the plan. Would it include free re-downloads of content then?

Yes.

 

[craigix]

Anyone can upload, there are options exactly for our scene like 'previous version free, current version pay for' and 'spare change auto donate', which if you have less than 99c in your account will donate it to a free bit of software (randomly or you can choose). I'm quit excited about that feature. You can charge your account via paypal or card.

Very nice - but I don't see how someone will have cash in their account since payments will happen via paypal or card...

You charge the account with either $20, $30 or $50 at a time (max balance allowed $100). This is to avoid constant bank/paypal charges.

So you could often have a spare 1c-90c (or set it to more) to throw to a dev.

 

[Unfathomable Depths]

Craig, charge 0.02p to join.

 

[JayFoxRox]

Without having read the topic completly

Isn't this what the file archive is for?

This sounds absolutly stupid to me as its completly redundant work. I would like to see some improvements on EDs file archive design (all of them, including the gp32x one), but its nothing major as they work..