Bringing the case and PCB together

[Bosbeetle]

wow these updates contain more awesomesauce every iteration.

 

[budweiser]

Thanks for the update

 

[Natsu]

Thought I'd throw it into the ideas pile.

TBH, I like the current one better.

 

[guestirno]

ED's/designing crew's idea is likely sufficient to our needs. I recall the Gameboy SP shoulders were quite good as well. If we were to carry over Nintendo's to the Pyra, we'd get something like this if the two inward buttons raised outward more than the outer shoulder triggers:

It probably won't work, but if done the above way, it allows the shoulder pairs to be pressed by just one index finger per side rather than the middle and index fingers. Thought I'd toss it out there.

also inspired by SP, something like this (view from back)

'corner' (L1/R1) button allows an easy method of pressing (by pressing on the edge of the console), while the larger (L2/R2) button simply has a larger area, so is also easy to find also.

I like saber's new design also, but I would swap the two button sizes for the aformentioned reasons (L/R1 is easy to push anyway because you have the corner advantage)

 

[thatgui]

2. The keymat

Pyras keymat will consist of a transparent silicone with black plastic keys glued on top.

The plastic keys will be produced with they're own mold, so they can freely be designed to be similar to laptop keys.

The labels will be transparent and get an LED backlight (which can be dimmed to any brightness).

 The keys look too recessed to allow a "comforting" travel, does the render represent the actual dimensions ?

4. The Battery

I would like to reprise the request for having the option of securing the battery(lid) with a screw.

What are your going with for keycaps if not flat tops?

Mostly flat, but probably slightly curved inward (similar to laptop keys) so you can feel them better.

Please do so, helps (at least me) immensely to hit the keys in the right spot.

 

[ahahah]

keep up the good work

 

[Saber]

Good progress.

 

[Grench]

Here's another go at it.

Firstly, the current one again:

An alternative proposition:

The concavity of the triggers is only a rough guide. The gradations of pairs could vary depending on where the fingers cross over. For example, the Northern border of R1 could be a smoother transition to R2 than the Northeastern perimeter of R1.

Getting closer...  Having the two buttons mated is 90% of the way there.

If R1 and R2 were 2 halves of one 'half-pipe'  (nowhere near that extreme, but it gives the visual), i.e. two parts of one 'dished' key...

ONE finger could run both buttons.

R1 = roll finger down

R2 = roll finger up

R1+R2 = mash finger in

Although I think I'd prefer to have R1 be the top button, but care less about labels.

 

[Saber]

In the shoulder button race, it's the leader. B)

 

[groovechicken]

If my time on these boards has taught me anything, it is that ED just needs to pull a Steve Jobs and decide for himself which style of shoulder buttons he likes and assume the rest of the world will think he is a genius... because the number of ideas for shoulder button layout is more than even Samsung could produce. Perhaps we could add a feature to the boards that allows us to filter out shoulder button posts.

 

[Bosbeetle]

If my time on these boards has taught me anything, it is that ED just needs to pull a Steve Jobs and decide for himself which style of shoulder buttons he likes and assume the rest of the world will think he is a genius... because the number of ideas for shoulder button layout is more than even Samsung could produce. Perhaps we could add a feature to the boards that allows us to filter out shoulder button posts.

same holds for: keyboard layouts, case colour, screw type, led colour, etc.

 

[Saber]

Some spring cleaning. Woosh.

 

[EvilDragon]

The problem is: You can't put the shoulder buttons anywhere, as that could cause issues with the stability of the plastic and we also have a fixed area where the PCB is.

 

[fusion_power]

The problem is: You can't put the shoulder buttons anywhere, as that could cause issues with the stability of the plastic and we also have a fixed area where the PCB is.

And the solution is...? ^^"

 

[Saber]

The problem is: You can't put the shoulder buttons anywhere, as that could cause issues with the stability of the plastic and we also have a fixed area where the PCB is.

Although it may not seem so as text doesn't offer the nuances of face to face conversations, I actually like your current shoulder button layout. I absolutely agree there is not much room to work with back there for proper shoulder bumpers. The area is just too compact as you've said.

I am curious why you aren't going to put L1 and R1 on the bottom edges like the Pandora triggers. If you rubberize them with a light coating, like the Xbox 360 triggers, that should offer some small protection from accidental drops. Not shatterproof by any means, but better than hard plastic would.

 

[Grench]

The problem is: You can't put the shoulder buttons anywhere, as that could cause issues with the stability of the plastic and we also have a fixed area where the PCB is.

Although it may not seem so as text doesn't offer the nuances of face to face conversations, I actually like your current shoulder button layout. I absolutely agree there is not much room to work with back there for proper shoulder bumpers. The area is just too compact as you've said.

I am curious why you aren't going to put L1 and R1 on the bottom edges like the Pandora triggers. If you rubberize them with a light coating, like the Xbox 360 triggers, that should offer some small protection from accidental drops. Not shatterproof by any means, but better than hard plastic would.

ED has it right to avoid having the button be the outer corner.  Think about it a bit.  

If the outer corner is case plastic, any bump gets distributed all around the chassis and if damage does occur it's to cheap plastic.  Cosmetic damage.  If the case breaks and the motherboard is OK then the case did it's job.  $20 in case plastics and 30 minutes labor and it's good.

If the outer corner is a big lever connected to a little switch on the motherboard, any bump gets distributed through the switch to the motherboard then to the case plastics.  If the motherboard gets damaged - not so good.

So - I like the plan of -not- having the buttons be the outside back corner of the device.

Clearly ED is dealing with some design constraints that I don't fully understand.  The roll up / roll down button idea is something I've put forward before.  I suspect that his concern is that there needs to be case plastic between the two buttons to give stability to that corner and the 'seam' area between the two case halves - speculation.

Given the 15mm or so height of that section of the case - I think we'll still be able to roll up/down and mash any two over/under buttons - and the gap between them would serve as the touch delimiter to know which one we're pushing.

 

[Saber]

The problem is: You can't put the shoulder buttons anywhere, as that could cause issues with the stability of the plastic and we also have a fixed area where the PCB is.

Although it may not seem so as text doesn't offer the nuances of face to face conversations, I actually like your current shoulder button layout. I absolutely agree there is not much room to work with back there for proper shoulder bumpers. The area is just too compact as you've said.

I am curious why you aren't going to put L1 and R1 on the bottom edges like the Pandora triggers. If you rubberize them with a light coating, like the Xbox 360 triggers, that should offer some small protection from accidental drops. Not shatterproof by any means, but better than hard plastic would.

ED has it right to avoid having the button be the outer corner.  Think about it a bit.  

If the outer corner is case plastic, any bump gets distributed all around the chassis and if damage does occur it's to cheap plastic.  Cosmetic damage.  If the case breaks and the motherboard is OK then the case did it's job.  $20 in case plastics and 30 minutes labor and it's good.

If the outer corner is a big lever connected to a little switch on the motherboard, any bump gets distributed through the switch to the motherboard then to the case plastics.  If the motherboard gets damaged - not so good.

So - I like the plan of -not- having the buttons be the outside back corner of the device.

Clearly ED is dealing with some design constraints that I don't fully understand.  The roll up / roll down button idea is something I've put forward before.  I suspect that his concern is that there needs to be case plastic between the two buttons to give stability to that corner and the 'seam' area between the two case halves - speculation.

Given the 15mm or so height of that section of the case - I think we'll still be able to roll up/down and mash any two over/under buttons - and the gap between them would serve as the touch delimiter to know which one we're pushing.

True, but it also depends on the design of the shoulders placed at the corners. For the Pyra, it may cause all sorts of catastrophic motherboard issues like you said, or it may dislodge the little switch from it's glued placement. How they are engineered could make the difference.

Although I don't own a 3DS XL, I'd think a shallow drop to the floor wouldn't harm the robust ones that has: picture, because of how well they are distributed along the sides, bottom, and back. It might loosen or kink the paddle, but not much else if it does anything at all. It depends on how high the device would fall and on what surface it plummets to(and how often the owner is careless).

My belief is, if the triggers are nestled at the corners like the XL's, the multi-way distribution would provide adequate protection from mild focused shocks straight on. If they are rubberized with a coating even more so and the owner gets some fantastic triggers out of it.

As you said and I agree, ED is dealing with some plastic constraints we don't know for sure about which is why the case needs as much reinforcement and less "perforations" in it as possible and why L2 and R2 are so minuscule compared to L1 and R1. If anything, I wouldn't mind if they(the new ones) were made a little longer.

 

[Yoyobuae]

ED has it right to avoid having the button be the outer corner.  Think about it a bit.  

If the outer corner is case plastic, any bump gets distributed all around the chassis and if damage does occur it's to cheap plastic.  Cosmetic damage.  If the case breaks and the motherboard is OK then the case did it's job.  $20 in case plastics and 30 minutes labor and it's good.

If the outer corner is a big lever connected to a little switch on the motherboard, any bump gets distributed through the switch to the motherboard then to the case plastics.  If the motherboard gets damaged - not so good.

Not necessarily. The case plastic around the button could be designed so that it stops the buttons before any damage is done.
So if for example, the shoulder button switches were removed, the shoulder button would be stopped by the case plastic instead of going all the way in.

 

[fusion_power]

Pandoras Shoulder Buttons also go around the corner but the actual mechanic doesn't. I see no problem and the limited space suggests to place the button this way, especialy with 4 shoulder buttons.  It's up to the designer to make this solution as stable and sturdy as possible.

How about thick, rubberized shoulder buttons that also protect the corners there?

 

[Neelix]

True, but it also depends on the design of the shoulders placed at the corners. For the Pyra, it may cause all sorts of catastrophic motherboard issues like you said, or it may dislodge the little switch from it's glued placement. How they are engineered could make the difference.

The shoulder button switches aren't just glued in place,  they are soldered to the board in place.   If the switch gets dislodged from its placement then at best it gets separated from the PCB and has to be re-soldered or replaced if it's also damaged. At worst it takes the solder pads on the PCB with it,  which would make it pretty much unfixable without replacing the whole PCB.

- Neelix