An update of the waiting game

[Wally]

Quality control (and repairability) is something that many companies don't take pride of these days. Having a Pyra that doesn't fail is a priority for some (me included), i'd rather not be left with a problematic device and be even more out of pocket sending it back and forth for repair (Personally I don't think @EvilDragon wants a repeat of the Pandora LCD Cable / Shoulder button / Case / Nub issues.)

Great work on getting this news out, it just feels that smidgen closer now!

 

[God Ginrai]

Additionally, the Pyra mainboard is VERY complex (because we cramp so many parts on so little space).

Just compare the Pyra mainboard to the GPD Win mainboard. The GPD Win mainboard almost looks like a wasteland in comparison. Fewer parts on bigger space.

Can you elaborate on this? What exactly does the Pyra mainboard have on it that the GPD Win is missing?

Also, I was under the impression that the mainboard was actually fairly simple due to the vast majority of the components being concentrated on the CPU board. When did this change?

-God Ginrai

 

[EvilDragon]

Can you elaborate on this? What exactly does the Pyra mainboard have on it that the GPD Win is missing?

Also, I was under the impression that the mainboard was actually fairly simple due to the vast majority of the components being concentrated on the CPU board. When did this change?

The CPU board only has the RAM, the eMMC and the CPU.

The mainboard has all the SD Card slots, multiple sensors, multiple USB-Ports, the full keyboard with LEDs on the other side (which means that you can't put parts there), the full power circuit, the SIM Card Reader and the modem, all antennas, etc.

Especially the SD Cards and SIM card reader need a lot more space than anything on the GPD Win PCB.
AND the GPD Win PCB is a lot bigger.

I can do some comparison pics of both tomorrow.

 

[God Ginrai]

Oh, I completely forgot about the SD readers. (and the fact that the 4G modem was on the mainboard and not the CPU board)

A comparison shot would be neat.

-God Ginrai

 

[fusion_power]

@fusion_power Hindsight lecturing doesn't really help at all, in fact just makes you look like a jerk talking down to someone doing their best to get something accomplished...

Sorry, I had to let it out after uh, how long do we wait again? Of course ED also knows this all, nothing to do with hindight, just a cry of desparation from my side. I mainly wanted to critisize the surrounding forces where ED and the team had no chance to influence or speed up things that should be actualy possible to influence and speed up. Remember: Less is often more and doing something overcomplicated can put ou in an infinite loop. We all know the KISS-principle. Yes, it's important to test and dont rush to avoid bad surprises. But there is one point where you have to make some decisions. Time is money, don't forget.

And I can accept to look like a jerk but I will stand for my opinion, no matter how I may look.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Chinese companies are ALWAYS giving other chinese companies priority in production... but we're not chinese.

 

[TheOldOne]

News sounds good. I really want to get a pyra but my finances go like this: net month I'll have saved enough to preorder the pyra, emergency happens, months later I've paid for the emergency and will soon be able to preorder, another emergency happens...

 

[Kippykip]

So this is it? The last designs for all the remaining parts (if nothing else goes wrong?)

 

[pyrat]

Thanks for the update and your work.

So the PCB is manufactured in China and populated in Germany, right ? I think I knew that but I forget.

How do the different models production work ? Is it always the same mainboard PCB for USA, EU and no modem models and it's just a different population process ? Or do you need different PCBs ?
(4GB and 2GB are different CPU board models, not different mainboards, and I understand they are both already populated pending test)

These 8 weeks include some units of each mainboard model or it's just one first model and then the others will take more time ?

It's easy to get sample PCBs in Germany within 2 - 3 weeks - however, we are in a state where we need the PCBs from the same company that does the mass production PCBs, otherwise, it could be that Wifi, etc. won't work properly.

Makes sense.

Most PCB production companies state a BUILD time of around 15 - 20 workdays for a 6 layer PCB non-express (workdays = Mo - Fr), so that's 3 - 4 weeks.
BUILD time - that means: Once they start. (It's a good trick to make things appear faster than they will take in reality). The analysis for new PCBs and the time for the queue before they start building yours is not included there

Well, to be honest, when any process implies a dialogue between two parties it is not fair to ask one party to state a time. It always depends on the time the other party takes to answer and the clarity of the answer which might need to be reiterated, and scheduling is complex if that provider is running multiple dialogue processes with several customers who answer asynchronously at any time they can. Some things just can't be planned.So I don't think stating build time is quite a trick.

 

[mclien]

@hns @EvilDragon
as mentioned before: my wfe works at a german PCB (only) producer, which is specialized in hight quality and mulitylayer. (My wife works at the department, which reviews the data for production).
So I could think of two steps to take advantage of that:
1. check, igf GC is aware of the company
2. if not, I could dig a bit in according to: production speed (and maybe some "special price" for supporting open hardware and my wife working for that company over 25 years).
(would need the gerber data for that, of course)

Should work for all PCBs, I guess (but CPU and MAinboard beeing the interessting ones)

 

[levi]

Thanks for the update and your work.

So the PCB is manufactured in China and populated in Germany, right ? I think I knew that but I forget.

How do the different models production work ? Is it always the same mainboard PCB for USA, EU and no modem models and it's just a different population process ? Or do you need different PCBs ?

Same PCB, just different or no modem chip based on LTE configuration. As you say, the RAM configuration is decided on what you strap to the CPU board, so in all cases the PCBs are identical just what you populate them with that decides what it is.

 

[PCXT]

Unfortunately condensing many parts is essential in such machine. Especially that some parts are not only electronic parts, they're also used in heat management, physical installation of board or are subjected to rather high stresses (To avoid problems as with N900, connectors should not go out with plugs). The good thing is that with current technology design rules now are relatively loose, as in some older technologies (especially military) there are more strict things - recently I've seen a Spectrum clone on few tens of TTLs made on a board which had only horizontal and vertical tracks - this was a thing hard to design (made by plant which made military computers too).

The first problem in examples is typical. Most designers deal with loads of packages with different design requirements and need to use footprint which is OK with package, passes design rules at fab and fits technology used in assembly plant (never forget this! I lost 2 days of correcting prototype PCBs with this "pad thickness vs assembly technology" error!).

I hope this problem with drilling into button track was caused by exporting into their format or rounding up to make drill list compliant with fab's technology. Maybe some coordinates got nuts, shifted or rotated. I have never seen any DRC which leaves such thing during PCB design.

 

[Caine]

The last designs for all the remaining parts (if nothing else goes wrong?)

Well, based on the history of this project and the former, something else will go wrong.

We haven't had any volcano eruptions for a while...

 

[Grench]

Well, based on the history of this project and the former, something else will go wrong.

We haven't had any volcano eruptions for a while...

Hawaii has one today ...

 

[Caine]

What are the odds Luckily I don't think that will delay the project much.

 

[Grench]

What are the odds Luckily I don't think that will delay the project much.

I wonder if someone has done an analysis of how often there is an ongoing volcanic eruption. I.e., what percentage of days/hours per year is there an ongoing volcanic eruption somewhere on the planet? Does it trend or change through time?

 

[levi]

The good and the bad news is there's almost always a volcano somewhere going off right now. Here's a map where you can hide earthquakes and get just the list of active erupting volcanos and there's still quite a few (although a significant proportion of them are underwater, so not an issue in terms of plumes unless they breach the surface).

http://ww2.volcanodiscovery.com/eruptingvolcanoes.php?title=Map%20of%20erupting%20volcanoes

Really, in our lifetimes we've been quite lucky, compared to our relatives from the 19C. There was 1815, the year without a summer and that time Krakatoa went up in 1883. If we'd had an aircraft industry then it'd have caused havoc, instead merely crops failed and significant numbers of people starved. Some time in the next millennium it seems likely to me that yellowstone park's going to go up in a major way, and the last time that happened a few million years ago it covered the whole of the US in ash meters thick. But the odds of that happening before ED can deliver the Pyra are really quite low indeed.

 

[Razy]

Ah, always a beauty to see how news threads segway into derailment so quickly. It's volcanoes this time.
The update is appreciated, ED.

 

[second exodous]

. . .merely crops failed and significant numbers of people starved.

Ouch. . .

 

[TheOldOne]

The good and the bad news is there's almost always a volcano somewhere going off right now. Here's a map where you can hide earthquakes and get just the list of active erupting volcanos and there's still quite a few (although a significant proportion of them are underwater, so not an issue in terms of plumes unless they breach the surface).

http://ww2.volcanodiscovery.com/eruptingvolcanoes.php?title=Map%20of%20erupting%20volcanoes

Really, in our lifetimes we've been quite lucky, compared to our relatives from the 19C. There was 1815, the year without a summer and that time Krakatoa went up in 1883. If we'd had an aircraft industry then it'd have caused havoc, instead merely crops failed and significant numbers of people starved. Some time in the next millennium it seems likely to me that yellowstone park's going to go up in a major way, and the last time that happened a few million years ago it covered the whole of the US in ash meters thick. But the odds of that happening before ED can deliver the Pyra are really quite low indeed.

Where on that map is the Flaming Monocles flying volcano fortress?