ComradeStalin
Still Fresh
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- Aug 8, 2012
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- 23
#67? Wow. getting closer than I thought apparently! Thanks for the update! 
A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)
- Thread starter craigix
- Start date
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archcosmo
Still Fresh
no worries - it should arrive around mid December (international postal services notwithstanding!)
palstyo
Member
You're being incredibly dense about things. I didn't really want to say it, but you are.
Like I said, there is a difference between being under the guidance of a bankruptcy court and being bankrupt. They are completely different things and confusing the two doesn't change the fact that you can't run a business while bankrupt. Bankruptcy is something which you either come out of or you don't. The cases where you come out of it, you're operating under the permission of a bankruptcy court. It's not that complicated. Usually they will dissolve any contracts that are necessary to keep the business running. Which means that the preorders would almost certainly be annuled as those are the ones causing the lack of cashflow. It sucks, but my parents had that happen on a warranty they had purchased.
As for the money, those are completely different businesses, using the money from ICP to pay for Pandora orders would be likely involve both Grand Larceny and Wire Fraud and probably other things. You cannot take money that you obtained from customers to pay for their units and funnel it to a different company for a completely different purpose.
I used the term bankruptcy, not bankrupt. I understand how bankruptcy works. I did not talk about funneling money as being proper, I talked about investing money from one company in the other. I have never had the idea of using icp money, but responded to you saying it was illegal and can't be done. companies can invest in others. as you note that they can't use icp pre-order money for pandora, I agree it is unethical if not illegal. However, if icp had extra that it wanted to invest while expecting a return, I would assume it could. I was responding to your use of can't and illegal without qualifying the use and function of the money that would make it inappropriate.
you just said I'm dense and from what I can see you validated what I said in defense of why I'm dense. Go figure.
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Dooble does have a point. ICP may be profitable and if so those profits could be invested to fill preorders.
What is the number of open preorders to fill? If it is 400 at 275 euro, that is 110,000 euro, which is missing to clear the whole preorder mess, right?
That is a big chunk of cash and ICP needs to fund development of ICP2, so maybe there arent enough profits for cross-funding the remaining preorders. Only Craig could tell...
What is the number of open preorders to fill? If it is 400 at 275 euro, that is 110,000 euro, which is missing to clear the whole preorder mess, right?
That is a big chunk of cash and ICP needs to fund development of ICP2, so maybe there arent enough profits for cross-funding the remaining preorders. Only Craig could tell...
my point was that it is not illegal under proper conditions. I personally don't see the investment potential and if Craig owns iCP outright he would have more control on how to deal with profits as he could take it out as salary or bonus and do with as he wants.
I know very little about his company and really should not conjecture. I do have my thoughts of what may be happening that I should not post without some level of proof.
I think the plan they have is mostly obvious and has mostly been stated online.
1. get pre-orders to upgrade for approximately the cost of manufacture.
2. sell new units and use some portion of the proceeds to fill pre-orders (don't know if this crosses shop lines- i.e. Ed sells a new unit from his shop and uses the profit to fill Ed's pre-order??)
3. The profit from selling a new unit is less than the price minus cost to manufacture, one needs to include warranty reserve, servicing credit lines, servicing investors, and salaries among other thing. I would guess some things are getting stretched here.
While this can look bad to a pre-order person that they want to sell you the upgrade to fill your order, there are a couple things to keep in mind:
a. I looks like they grossly under priced the pre-order product either intentionally or by mistake.
b. they lost a lot of money in the start up phase and with all the problems they had.
all in all, you are likely getting what you should have paid if you upgrade from an original pre-order, sans the use of the pre-order money for several years.
I would guess the number of pre-order plus refund requests exceeds 400, but don't have any data base that on (WAG). Really what these companies need is the volume to go up, way up so that the cost of manufacture drops and the quality goes up. I think somewhere I heard a failure rate of 5% (may be from some other place and product). I assumed this was first test in the factory (before rework). This is kind of high for production. However, it is difficult to keep yields high without more consistent production the volume helps. So find some friends that want one.
Super Roach
oh you can't put me on the spot like that!
Holy crap! I have an email saying my 1ghz upgrade just shipped! A month ago I was feeling lost, but the mass of email contact I have now is amazing!
For reference, its #1056, although I don't know how that relates in the queue (I should be behind everyone basicly)
For reference, its #1056, although I don't know how that relates in the queue (I should be behind everyone basicly)
palstyo
Member
Question is when did you order it? I means upgrade.
I thought he clearing 1GHz preorder queue which is almost 6month ago.
JackTheKnife
Member
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Fzero
Advanced Member
- Joined
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- 4,702
very nice
times like this you need a camera tripod eh, knife skills and general unboxing isn't easy single handed.
bet you happy now though, got to give it a charge right before you can get on it?
I wonder if the box image will be replaced for a silver one when the next batch of boxes is ordered?
nice to see another one found a new home though - hope you enjoy it
times like this you need a camera tripod eh, knife skills and general unboxing isn't easy single handed.
bet you happy now though, got to give it a charge right before you can get on it?
I wonder if the box image will be replaced for a silver one when the next batch of boxes is ordered?
nice to see another one found a new home though - hope you enjoy it
Congrats mate...happy to see some more (old) preorder people receiving the Pandora.
JackTheKnife
Member
I have took that video with SGS3 so even a tripod will not help in that case (I was watching what I'm doing over the phone
)So far I'm impressed with the quality of Pandora. I was playing a little bit with both GUIs and left Pandora to charge. Now I need to find my lost SD card (no clue where is after those 4 years) for PND files
PS.
Need to figure out how to open a battery case without breaking nails
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so was this an upgrade? or was this your original pre-order.
JackTheKnife
Member
Original pre-order batch1 (original queue 2500-3000), no upgrade.
JackTheKnife
Member
that's good to hear, I'm just 1000-1500 places behind you
...we getting there
Slowly but going forward (better than stuck in same place)
Based on a email early on I was between 2500 and 2600 originally. What date did you order?
palstyo
Member
Wow that's sound great so new 1GHz sales,upgrade and donation etc is seems working well.
palstyo
Member
Wow that's sound great so new 1GHz sales,upgrade and donation etc is seems working well.
BTW Notion Ink Adm +JB is good? sorry not related with Pandora but I also have it and not upgrade yet that's why
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