A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)

[Bagpussawake]

Nice, none of the old Playstation golf games any good for you, the old Tiger Woods or Actua Golf series'?

I hadn't actually thought of them (my excuse is I was too busy playing Grand Turismo & Colin Macrae on my old PSX!), I'm off to try and find an old copy for sale now, thanks for the suggestion !

I really dont mind waiting but hearing something would be reassuring

That's exactly how i felt, having to wait is not great but when there are weeks without any sign of progress or any concrete news it gets pretty depressing...

 

[khunkao]

Been waiting for 3 years...anybody else in the same boat as I am?

 

[Godmil]

Been waiting for 3 years...anybody else in the same boat as I am?

Yep, there are a few of us.


Oh I just noticed that was your first post. Welcome to the forums, and thank you for being so patient

 

[Nod51]

Been waiting for 3 years...anybody else in the same boat as I am?

Still waiting here. I lost my order number so I have no idea where in the queue I am, like it matters, but I think I ordered on the second day. I still have the same email and shipping address so when it is finally ready all should be good. I was worried I was forgotten about but got the upgrade email so guess I will get it eventually.


Over the last 3 years I have spent well over 100 hours enjoying the flame wars, finger pointing, trolling, and downright hating each other. I never created an account because I felt I had nothing to add. Ranting on the forums was not going to get my Pandora to me any quicker.


Since I have made an account I have some things to say:


Craigix: Thank you for not canceling my order. When I paid for the Pandora I knew you did not have them done and I was willing to gamble/invest that you would get them done eventually. I realize the delays are not your fault and again appreciate you not making my investment worthless. I am sorry but I can't justify upgrading at this time. If people just looked at it as a kickstarter and not a store purchase perhaps they would not be so upset.


EvilDragon: I really feel sorry for you with all the time you have and are putting into this project. I am glad you are working with Craigix and didn't just abandon us. I hope once all the preorders are done you can finally start making the profit you, and the stockholders, deserve.


Community: thank you all for the hours of entertainment on the boards, always good for a laugh.

 

[khunkao]

Been waiting for 3 years...anybody else in the same boat as I am?

Yep, there are a few of us.


Oh I just noticed that was your first post. Welcome to the forums, and thank you for being so patient

Hey thanks. Yea I figured instead of staring listfully at the screen for news of my order, I'll just register and check things out


:unsure: sigh

 

[batfastad]

Yep a November 2009 pre-orderer here. I got the e-mail advertising a SuperPandora 2.0 or something a few weeks ago but couldn't justify spending an additional 120% on an upgrade.


After a couple of weeks of thinking I decided to e-mail openpandorasales to upgrade but haven't heard anything back yet.


The thing that has annoyed people is the not knowing for so long. That upgrade e-mail was the first e-mail I'd had about the situation in 3 years.


A Pandora is an expensive thing to produce. An e-mail update to a couple of thousand people is basically free and should digitally send within 10 minutes.


It's fine for me, I dig around these forums for info. Before that it was left to a few members of the community to collate info at pandorapress.net.


I feel sorry for all the people who don't dig around for this info!


I just want one of these so badly as there's nothing else like it. People seem to be going crazy for games on smart phones but for me, games need gaming controls. And a (proper) open source operating system is just excellent.


I'm now really considering cross-upgrading to ED's shop. It's even more money, but if I don't, I might never see my unit. And hopefully it will help the overall project out as well.

 

[hedwards]

So I assume this means that Ed has never shipped a pandora where Craig's company paid for any of the parts or manufacturing? Or the other way around? The term "Can't" may be a little strong. undesirably I would believe. There is a lot of stuff I don't understand in the company make ups since they seem to share the same tooling and parts in many places (Ed and Craig), unless their is a 3rd company that owns all that.


Still no acknowledgement of my refund request. Time to email my friends in the UK to sort out "proper" notification my UK law.


doob

It's complicated. ED and Craig have different shops, as does Fatih, preorders from each went to pay for the production costs. AFAIK, everybody that ordered from Fatih has long since received their units. Craig, IIRC, sold the most units, which is probably part of why he had the most unshipped when things went bad.


The iControlPad is by iControlPad Ltd and taking any of that money to pay bills for Craig's preorders would be illegal. They're legally separate corporations for different purposes and there are regulations in place that prevent the money that he takes in from selling iControlPads to pay for Pandoras. Now, if he chooses to take some of those profits from ICP sales and use them to move the queue forward that's presumably legal. But, I won't pretend to understand the legal implications of doing that, as I'm not a lawyer and I'm especially not a lawyer in the UK.


There's also the issue of the cost of operating the business and he has to keep out of bankruptcy court as operating a business while bankrupt is generally illegal anywhere you might want to operate.

 

[dooble]

So I assume this means that Ed has never shipped a pandora where Craig's company paid for any of the parts or manufacturing? Or the other way around? The term "Can't" may be a little strong. undesirably I would believe. There is a lot of stuff I don't understand in the company make ups since they seem to share the same tooling and parts in many places (Ed and Craig), unless their is a 3rd company that owns all that.


Still no acknowledgement of my refund request. Time to email my friends in the UK to sort out "proper" notification my UK law.


doob

It's complicated. ED and Craig have different shops, as does Fatih, preorders from each went to pay for the production costs. AFAIK, everybody that ordered from Fatih has long since received their units. Craig, IIRC, sold the most units, which is probably part of why he had the most unshipped when things went bad.


The iControlPad is by iControlPad Ltd and taking any of that money to pay bills for Craig's preorders would be illegal. They're legally separate corporations for different purposes and there are regulations in place that prevent the money that he takes in from selling iControlPads to pay for Pandoras. Now, if he chooses to take some of those profits from ICP sales and use them to move the queue forward that's presumably legal. But, I won't pretend to understand the legal implications of doing that, as I'm not a lawyer and I'm especially not a lawyer in the UK.


There's also the issue of the cost of operating the business and he has to keep out of bankruptcy court as operating a business while bankrupt is generally illegal anywhere you might want to operate.

really don't understand how Ed, Craig and Faith (new one on me) can intermingle funds using pre-orders and Craig's other company "can't" because its illegal. If Craig's other company thought it was a good business to invest in OPL, why could it not invest? I assume the three "shops" put money into NRE, tooling, parts, board layouts, and other start up costs. I question the terms can't and illegal. You might say it would be illegal siphon the money from his other company or steal it and I'd see it a obviously illegal. In some countries companies can operate from within bankruptcy, take most of the US auto industry in 2008. It does depend on the type of bankruptcy.


On another topic, it was mentioned the the boards oxidized at CC. What was the plating and finish on the boards?


dooble

 

[hedwards]

really don't understand how Ed, Craig and Faith (new one on me) can intermingle funds using pre-orders and Craig's other company "can't" because its illegal. If Craig's other company thought it was a good business to invest in OPL, why could it not invest? I assume the three "shops" put money into NRE, tooling, parts, board layouts, and other start up costs. I question the terms can't and illegal. You might say it would be illegal siphon the money from his other company or steal it and I'd see it a obviously illegal. In some countries companies can operate from within bankruptcy, take most of the US auto industry in 2008. It does depend on the type of bankruptcy.


On another topic, it was mentioned the the boards oxidized at CC. What was the plating and finish on the boards?


dooble

They weren't so much intermingling money as they were paying for the necessary components to be produced to fill the orders. AFAIK they contributed roughly in proportion to the total orders each had. And what's more, the money provided to ED, Craig and Fatih for Pandora preorders is for just that, Pandora preorders; the funds that are provided for ICP preorders is for just that, ICP units to be produced and shipped. Honestly, it's not that complicated. Taking ICP preorder money to produce Pandoras would probably violate at least a half dozen different laws. Again I'm not an attorney in the UK, or anywhere else, but matters like this tend to be taken very seriously.


EDIT: No, the US auto inustry wasn't operating while bankrupt. The US government provided funding so that they could pay the bills. It's also a rare exception which most companies would get. They were considered necessary, so the government lent them the money. They were still taking in money and with restructuring could be fixed. Being in Bankruptcy is very different from being bankrupt.

 

[palstyo]

Not sure exactly date but til #54 has been shipped out.

Hmmm so you are number #54? But here #57 has already shipped?

Oh you right.


I didn't check this coz. I think it was stopped at August and these two guy got October.


But anyway seems clear til #57 is correct.


Anyway I'm 99 and I paid in 15th June, yes still waiting like I was wait for first batch(it takes 3 years and 1 month to get)

 

[dooble]

really don't understand how Ed, Craig and Faith (new one on me) can intermingle funds using pre-orders and Craig's other company "can't" because its illegal. If Craig's other company thought it was a good business to invest in OPL, why could it not invest? I assume the three "shops" put money into NRE, tooling, parts, board layouts, and other start up costs. I question the terms can't and illegal. You might say it would be illegal siphon the money from his other company or steal it and I'd see it a obviously illegal. In some countries companies can operate from within bankruptcy, take most of the US auto industry in 2008. It does depend on the type of bankruptcy.


On another topic, it was mentioned the the boards oxidized at CC. What was the plating and finish on the boards?


dooble

They weren't so much intermingling money as they were paying for the necessary components to be produced to fill the orders. AFAIK they contributed roughly in proportion to the total orders each had. And what's more, the money provided to ED, Craig and Fatih for Pandora preorders is for just that, Pandora preorders; the funds that are provided for ICP preorders is for just that, ICP units to be produced and shipped. Honestly, it's not that complicated. Taking ICP preorder money to produce Pandoras would probably violate at least a half dozen different laws. Again I'm not an attorney in the UK, or anywhere else, but matters like this tend to be taken very seriously.


EDIT: No, the US auto inustry wasn't operating while bankrupt. The US government provided funding so that they could pay the bills. It's also a rare exception which most companies would get. They were considered necessary, so the government lent them the money. They were still taking in money and with restructuring could be fixed. Being in Bankruptcy is very different from being bankrupt.

I think for the most part you agreed with my point. See the quote of mine within yours.


Bolded - not only the US auto industry, American Airlines I think is still flying while in bankruptcy for I think a year. Many others have gone through bankruptcy over the last decade or so. Same for other industries. The US government does not always put money in so the auto industry was different. I also noted that it does depend on the type of bankruptcy as some restructure and some liquidate. At least in the US they are both called bankruptcy, just different chapters of the laws. I believe there are more then two types. And there are many companies.. I think Sears and Kmart (larger retailers) also did the same. This is not that unusual. Sometimes when companies go into a restructuring bankruptcy, they never come out.


Bold italics Please look a what I said. Someone had to pay NRE and tooling charges otherwise there would be no cases or nubs unless these are off the shelf. There would be no stencil to apply paste to the board and would be difficult if not impossible to build the board. I did not say there was anything illegal or underhanded in doing this. It might bring into question who owns what in the case where one went bankrupt or into bankruptcy considering look back periods.


Bold Underlined I still don't see that is why ICP could not invest in OPL if it had the funds and saw a good opportunity. I noted this because earlier it was stated that Craig can't use ICP money because it is illegal with no caveat as to why or in the case of your last post "Taking ICP preorder money to produce Pandoras". This would not in my mind be an investment. I used the example of the companies putting money together to produce the pandora because I could not see the reason why Craig could not have done that with two companies he owned if it was a benefit to both of the companies. As noted in above post " I question the terms can't and illegal" as to why Craig could not use money from another of his companies if it was a good investment for that company.


And I agree, this is not that complicated.

 

[Gring]

Craig,


Instead of asking for a refund, would it help / be possible to transform a Pandora preorder into a icp2 preorder ?


(I guess not, it would be simply transfering OPL's debts to ICP, which would be unfair, but I haven't seen that question raised, so maybe it would help ? )


Maybe some preorderers would accept to virtually pay a higher price for icp2's (like 100$ per unit). It would mean a loss for ICP, but would allow to clear a few preorders and save OPL, and virtually save refund costs. Maybe there's an interesting balance to be found.


( Anyway, I think "no" would be an acceptable answer, old problems shouldn't affect new projects, let's not start a flame war about this)

 

[Gring]

I just thought about my previous post, and I realise it's a flame bait and will place Craig in a delicate position (sorry, it was a candid question).


In other words, what I've been asking is : " Craig, would you accept to lose money in an unrelated company in exchange for nothing ? ".


Nowhere in the industry this question would be answered by a yes.


But I had another idea which could be more acceptable : Instead of transforming a preorder of OP into a preorder of ICP2's (direct loss), transform a preorder of OP in the possibility to buy several ICP2's at a huge discount (near production costs).


This way, we could "make our own refund" by reselling the ICP2's around us. It would be a short term harm instead of a direct loss, and could lead to more sales for ICP once we sold all our units (people who will have bought units from us will show it to their friends who will also want one)

 

[sterling976]

For those looking for some good news (or just trying to figure out how much longer they're going to have to wait), I'm order #62 (2 units) in the 1Ghz queue. Got my shipping email today from Craig's team.

 

[RubiX]

Yea im a early 2009 pre-order also (4/7/09 confirmation date) still waiting and totally fed-up as I know many of us pre-orders are. I try my best to not post on the forums to fuel any fire, but yea.... i'm losing my cool about all of this, and honestly feel incredibly unstable about the upgrade option when I have very little money to spend for myself these days. Life is much more complicated than when I first made this purchase.


Im wondering if you guys are also in this same circumstance : Every month or two you have friends asking you ........... so... got your pandora yet?? and always having to tell them whats going on with it and why it hasn't been able to ship yet, but keep up the defense of OP that they are still 100% legitimately working on it etc, ugh its an ongoing annoyance.


I know they aren't trying to be mean about the situation, but I wish I never even mentioned I was getting one to my friends, its been 4.5 years and grown to be a major pain in the *#$ trying to defend everything and always having to sound ultra positive that its going to come. I feel i'm lieing to them to prove they are incorrect about their "thoughts"

 

[dooble]

Yea im a early 2009 pre-order also (4/7/09 confirmation date) still waiting and totally fed-up as I know many of us pre-orders are. I try my best to not post on the forums to fuel any fire, but yea.... i'm losing my cool about all of this, and honestly feel incredibly unstable about the upgrade option when I have very little money to spend for myself these days. Life is much more complicated than when I first made this purchase.


Im wondering if you guys are also in this same circumstance : Every month or two you have friends asking you ........... so... got your pandora yet?? and always having to tell them whats going on with it and why it hasn't been able to ship yet, but keep up the defense of OP that they are still 100% legitimately working on it etc, ugh its an ongoing annoyance.


I know they aren't trying to be mean about the situation, but I wish I never even mentioned I was getting one to my friends, its been 4.5 years and grown to be a major pain in the *#$ trying to defend everything and always having to sound ultra positive that its going to come. I feel i'm lieing to them to prove they are incorrect about their "thoughts"

Maybe you'll feel better to know that it has been only 3.5 years. Sorry, but true. I was an Oct 2009 pre-order... now an unconfirmed Nov, 2012 refund requester. I expect the money is just lost depending upon which company you ordered from. They may work though all this, but with the time value of money, it will be worth less. I still like to think that these guys are legit but priced the pandora too low initially and had some problems. Doesn't really make it any better. As others have requested, it would be nice if there was some detail as to size of the queues and everyone's position so you could see where you were and when they made progress. But that seems not to be what the primes want. They should put adds on the forum...might make enough to pay for some pre-orders.

 

[palstyo]

For those looking for some good news (or just trying to figure out how much longer they're going to have to wait), I'm order #62 (2 units) in the 1Ghz queue. Got my shipping email today from Craig's team.

congratulation


My unit is may be next week? especially if he send money to ED for rest of 1GHz queue within this week otherwise no idea..


Anybody who also got shipping mail from Jacquelyn?(Craig's)?

 

[kasp]

Ok so I also got news that my 1 Ghz order has shipped as well. My number is in the 60's.


However I am probably going to be on holidays when it arrives at my work.


Now as for everyone saying that ICP2 should be funding the Pandora it shouldn't since it just complicates things. The easiest way for Craig to get around this is to pay himself out of the profits it makes and then invests it in the Pandora Although it pretty much is exactly the same thing there is a bit of a difference. However he should not go down this route until he has worked out the final costs with some spare money for warranties and misc things like tax and people have the icp2 in their hands.

 

[ComradeStalin]

No word here, but then again im #81, so I feel thats a little ways of if the most recent ones shipped are in the 60's still. :unsure:

 

[archcosmo]

hi everyone


overnight I received a shipping confirmation email from Craigix/OPT/Jacquelyn regarding my preorder (paid Feb 2009, then paid for 1Ghz upgrade option back in June 2012).


if anyone's keeping track, I was allocated 1Ghz queue position 67