A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)

[Link]

^


ED has been totally transparent with his remaining preorders.

 

[Godmil]

I'm going to make a guess. I think there are (between original, 1 gig, and refunds) 500-700 people waiting for something. Anyone else want to try?

 

[sterling976]

THEN I'll believe in upgrade, then I WILL upgrade, for reasonable price.


<snip>


Don't tell me this is meter of confidence... If you're not able to trust THIS community, then... this is all scam.

I can't really speak to the list of outstanding preorders, because I agree it's kind of ridiculous that after this many years, there's no master list.


I will, however, assure you that there is no scam and that you'll be in good shape if you upgrade. I just received the 1Ghz upgrade I made to Craig's shop. Admittedly, I've been waiting since June, but it did arrive. I've heard nothing but good things from those who switched shops and upgraded through ED. He's been good about promptly shipping product.


I was skeptical that the new machines and new cases would be any better than the rebirth-era Pandy I already had, but I have to say I'm converted. N64 and Playstation emulators both run a lot better, and while I haven't had any problems with the build quality of my older unit, the new ones feel much more solid, with no buckling or stress around the screen bezel, and smoother joints where the pieces meet. The screen hinge also does a better job of keeping the lid in whatever position you put it.


If you're on the fence about upgrading, go ahead. You won't regret it.

 

[ibisum]

I think its dreadful that we don't know who helped in the First Order Crisis, and all subsequent orders. That part of the whole show should have been "100% Open", somewhere.

 

[ShleeDragon]

The OpenPandora has always been high risk. It's built by four guys in their homes.


That said, SCAM is the wrong word because there has been no FRAUD to speak of. People get their units even if they have to wait two years....


Your money is going towards something bigger than the sum of the parts of the pandora you'll receive.

 

[THB]

That said, SCAM is the wrong word because there has been no FRAUD to speak of. People get their units even if they have to wait two years....

Try four years

 

[dooble]

THEN I'll believe in upgrade, then I WILL upgrade, for reasonable price.


<snip>


Don't tell me this is meter of confidence... If you're not able to trust THIS community, then... this is all scam.

I can't really speak to the list of outstanding preorders, because I agree it's kind of ridiculous that after this many years, there's no master list.


I will, however, assure you that there is no scam and that you'll be in good shape if you upgrade. I just received the 1Ghz upgrade I made to Craig's shop. Admittedly, I've been waiting since June, but it did arrive. I've heard nothing but good things from those who switched shops and upgraded through ED. He's been good about promptly shipping product.


I was skeptical that the new machines and new cases would be any better than the rebirth-era Pandy I already had, but I have to say I'm converted. N64 and Playstation emulators both run a lot better, and while I haven't had any problems with the build quality of my older unit, the new ones feel much more solid, with no buckling or stress around the screen bezel, and smoother joints where the pieces meet. The screen hinge also does a better job of keeping the lid in whatever position you put it.


If you're on the fence about upgrading, go ahead. You won't regret it.

And what happens to the rest of us. Original pre-orders were the base of the project support. Some are still waiting but may have reasons not to upgrade like being tight on money. Some pre-orders have asked for refunds because the need or desire for one has changed. Since I keep hearing that the cost of manufacture is higher than what they paid, it would be less costly to refund these people than to build the units. Assuming this is true, then asking for a refund is likely helping the project as this is less costly. And yes, upgrading likely covers the cost of manufacture of the upgraded unit so it help the project more. However, the earlier pre-orders likely have a stronger claim for performance on the sales contract.

The OpenPandora has always been high risk. It's built by four guys in their homes.


That said, SCAM is the wrong word because there has been no FRAUD to speak of. People get their units even if they have to wait two years....


Your money is going towards something bigger than the sum of the parts of the pandora you'll receive.

many have waited longer than two years. Say 3 or 4 years.

 

[webcraaawler]

Just a quick addition:


I just sent out over 60 tracking eMails manually (had to type the tracking numbers from the postal receipts... urghh!), so I didn't find the time to reply to some questions here addressed to me how I'll help, etc.


I'll do that tomorrow or - worst case - on Monday (as I got to work at a hockey game once again tomorrow).


Don't worry, we'll manage the stuff somehow

Hi ED .. thanks for this update. Its nice to see things moving. So I guess these are 60 Pandora's going out to some lucky people. I was wondering if it is possible to have a general break down of how this affects the queues.


Eg: 60 Pandora's shipped. This affected ~50 Upgraders (which helps the preorder queue) and ~10 New Pandas (which helps the 1 Ghz queue).


If this is possible and doesn't take a lot of time. Thanks.

 

[webcraaawler]

I'm going to make a guess. I think there are (between original, 1 gig, and refunds) 500-700 people waiting for something. Anyone else want to try?

I'll take a shot at this


1) http://www.openpandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98&Itemid=13&lang=en "Paid preorders (Batch 1 and 2) still left: About 400" which has current status date: 2012-09-01


2) Since then http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/10774-a-further-update-on-preorders-18th-of-november-2012/ About 150 have upgraded. So subtract say 130.


3) And http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/10532-soon-back-in-stock-and-other-news-2012-10-29/ "17 preoders have been financed using those donations". Subtract 17.


4) There are approx 165 1 GHz that were ordered "Nearly, half way to me at #165. [Gunrock]". And looks like tofdz was number #89 ... the last one that I can see to receive their unit. So 76 in the 1 Ghz queue.


So my guess is that there are 253 Batch 1 & 2 Preorders + 76 1 Ghz people = 329.


At www.dragonbox.de there was like 66 units which dropped down to 4 last week (I think). Looks like its back up to 68 units. I don't know if the last few weeks sales helps the preorder queue or the 1 Ghz queue but hopefully it helps one or the other.


So 329 - 62 = 267


Now the refund queue. I see some posts from people complaining about the refund. Maybe 15 people ? But I have no idea how many there could be.


But http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/10015-the-current-situation/page__st__80 Craig says:


"To be clear, refunds were never a problem (and indeed, original order refunds saved us money), because they were manageable.


~100 almost at once? Not so manageable - but we did manage to refund that."


I also remember some posts talking about that Craig HAS to do the refunds or bad things happen (I can't find the posts). So if it has to be done, Craig says he's doing it ... it must be happening ?


So I am going to guess a number of 100 in the refund queue.


So my guess is 367. A guess.


So I saw some posts implying that Craig took the 1 Ghz money to fund iCP2. I have no idea. But after thinking about it I thought maybe its a good thing. Craig needs to generate some revenue. If iCP2 does that and he can use some of the profits from that to move things forward in OP UK ... thats a good thing right ? I supported the iCP2 kickstarter ... even though I don't know where I can use the iCP2. I don't have a cell phone.


So I am #137 in the 1 Ghz queue ... with hopes of a xmas delivery fading quickly . Sooooo ... I did something crazy. I ordered another 1 Ghz from ithic.com. Its on its way. I don't know if I will ask for a refund on my original 1 Ghz order. I originally upgraded as I was told it would help the original pre-orderers. I have no idea what I will do with 2 pandoras though. Maybe I will convince myself that this is also what I do to help the situation. If I do convince myself of that ... this will be the limit of my expenditures for this project.

 

[Godmil]

Excellent guess, but remember a few pages ago ED said Craig's queue was about 800 in August, and around that time I heard an estimate of 150 for EDs queue. Also if Craig's queue was only a couple of hundred I'm sure he wouldn't need to be so reluctant to share the number.


Though I guess it's academic now. In the last few weeks all the queues seem to be going down so its only a matter of time.

 

[klapse]

Some pre-orders have asked for refunds because the need or desire for one has changed. Since I keep hearing that the cost of manufacture is higher than what they paid, it would be less costly to refund these people than to build the units. Assuming this is true, then asking for a refund is likely helping the project as this is less costly.

This is _false_ because the cost of production has already been outlayed and lost (among other things, to the 300.000$ CC boards fiasco, the nub mfgr fiasco, etc). There is no recouping this money for OPT when you cancel an order. And the original preorder price does not cover the total production cost.


The costs that the preorders funded have already been sunk through no fault of their own. Cancelling does not help them financially. The only option for a waiting preorder to 1) pay a _fair_ price for the unit and 2) help the project is to _upgrade_.


EDIT


You might feel it sucks that the per unit cost increased and you would be right, but ED and Craig are not to be blamed for their suppliers f*cking them over. Stop hating on them for struggling to recover this and start supporting them for their heroic efforts.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Heh, $1100 us dollars better be enough "support" to get me my 1GHz Pandora now. <_<

 

[dooble]

Some pre-orders have asked for refunds because the need or desire for one has changed. Since I keep hearing that the cost of manufacture is higher than what they paid, it would be less costly to refund these people than to build the units. Assuming this is true, then asking for a refund is likely helping the project as this is less costly.

This is _false_ because the cost of production has already been outlayed and lost (among other things, to the 300.000$ CC boards fiasco, the nub mfgr fiasco, etc). There is no recouping this money for OPT when you cancel an order. And the original preorder price does not cover the total production cost.


The costs that the preorders funded have already been sunk through no fault of their own. Cancelling does not help them financially. The only option for a waiting preorder to 1) pay a _fair_ price for the unit and 2) help the project is to _upgrade_.


EDIT


You might feel it sucks that the per unit cost increased and you would be right, but ED and Craig are not to be blamed for their suppliers f*cking them over. Stop hating on them for struggling to recover this and start supporting them for their heroic efforts.

I don't think my comment is false if the options are wait for the pre-order or get a refund and using the assumptions stated. For example, lets use pre-order cost $330, production cost $450. I don't know if these are correct, but use them for example and it meets the condition that the pre-order price did not cover the pandora.


So as you state, the $330 was lost in early production problems (not blaming anyone). So if one does not upgrade and they make good by delivering the person a unit, is cost $450. If they make good on a refund request they shell out $330. So the refund saves them $120 if my made up numbers are correct and they don't have to save a warranty reserve. Now if someone upgrades and pays a $450 upgrade fee, the people are made whole and companies get the cost of goods covered and the pre-order obligation off their books.


From a purely business standpoint the fact that the original pre-order money is gone provides no relief to the obligation unless perhaps if the person who ordered is a fault. That Ed (an possibly Craig) use fully paid (new) 1G units cost to fill a pre-order shows they are trying to do the right thing. But they are using the profit and maybe some warranty reserve to pay for the manufacture of the pre-order. My point is that if the pre-orders were truly below cost, it might be cheaper to refund as has been stated in other posts.


Edit: It has not been stated that the price has been increased for pre-orders, just offers to upgrade for queue or type of pandora. At least I have not seen an email stating such.

 

[calc84maniac]

The thing about getting refunds from Craig is that he has to shell it out of his pocket (which I presume is getting pretty empty now). This is bad for him because it doesn't go with the "paid for by profit from new orders" plan. Maybe one way to get out of this mess is to include these refunded units in that plan, sending Craig $330 cash in place of the cancelled preorder (or better yet, putting $330 into a pot that pays for the 70 backordered 1GHz units).

 

[mcobit]

And where do the $330 come from?

 

[calc84maniac]

The sales of three 600MHz units or one 1GHz unit, as specified by the old preorder fulfillment plan.

 

[palstyo]

may be it works especially who has money to refund.


But think bout it if Craig has plenty money to refund why he use our money with out ask?(borrow steal what ever like that)


And now it happen again, I think this is fact isn't it?


Before ED said he always accept refund.


I'm feeling may be I can't get my 1GHz .... no refund no Pandora ...... just waste my money.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Every pre-orderer will get his Pandora. It's a matter of time.


Craig did a better job with iCP1 than with OP (at the exception of his communication ), so iCP2 should be a success.

 

[palstyo]

Every pre-orderer will get his Pandora. It's a matter of time.


Craig did a better job with iCP1 than with OP (at the exception of his communication ), so iCP2 should be a success.

Well hope so as ED wrote before.


But problem is matter of time.


I'm too tired for wait.


Also bout iCP2 personally I like that since form iCP that's why I pledge.


But I don't know after this happen again .... how can I trust him.


I just wish I'll get iCP2 on schedule.....

 

[dooble]

And where do the $330 come from?

The same place the money to fill any pre-order. It has been stated that with the sale of a 1G pandora (not upgrade) they can use the proceeds to ship an original pre-order. I would assume this is done by using the profits to fund the pre-orders.


Edit: How else would they fill pre-orders. Ok, donations would help too. Companies use "profits from some sales" to fund completing obligations.