A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)

[Godmil]

Perhaps it is time to bite the bullet, declare the UK company bancrupt, and then see if the community can support ED with new orders and donations to assist Craig's customers.

So you think having 1 company + community support is going to clear the queue faster than 2 companies + community support? I don't follow your logic.


Thanks ED for that awesomely transparent post. I thought when you said Craig has 800 preorders left in August that you ment this year, not last year... that's a lot more reassuring


As an aside... just because ED is very kind and shares all his finances with us, doesn't mean that Craig is hiding anything. I don't want to post details about my finances online, it doesn't mean I'm doing anything suspicious

 

[dooble]

Ed,


Thanks for posting this. One item still of concern and it relates to the status and quantity of Craig's customers/obligations. I took from what you said that you don't have a good reliable count of the number of units or refunds. I would assume that many orders are a bit dated (pre-order) and contact information, shipping location or other may have changed. I have some concern if the information for each customer is not validated/updated that you will have trouble succeeding at making people whole due to invalid data.


I think it would be difficult to work your plan without the information and risks sending units or refunds to black hole (incorrect places). I think everyone would feel better if you were able to get a complete up to date list of Craig's pandora customer obligations and details so you had the information needed to complete your plan.


--- to the poster questioning the logic of one shop verse two shops. I believe Ed estimated that Craig likely needed 2000 euros/month to run his shop. This is an expense that must come from revenues somewhere. Going to one shop would likely relieve some of this expense. The remaining shop expenses may increase somewhat due to extra volume.

 

[Scntrblob]

So you think having 1 company + community support is going to clear the queue faster than 2 companies + community support? I don't follow your logic. Thanks ED for that awesomely transparent post. I thought when you said Craig has 800 preorders left in August that you ment this year, not last year... that's a lot more reassuring As an aside... just because ED is very kind and shares all his finances with us, doesn't mean that Craig is hiding anything. I don't want to post details about my finances online, it doesn't mean I'm doing anything suspicious

But this isn't about someones personal financials. This is about money that was taken ages ago, that you won't get refunded anymore (http://boards.openpa...raig-questions/) and if you ever receive your order depends on how many are also waiting in the queue. (Because frankly, the number of people who buy 660 pandoras seems to drain out and these pandoras financiate this queue)


So Craig should clearly state how many orders he has left to fulfill, nobody cares if it's a few dozen more or less ("Number unknown because steady refunds", or so). It costs him nothing, probably just a one line database query, or however he manages his orders. If everything happened like ED stated publishing this number should lead to some relaxing here. Not publishing it leads to, well, the suspicious smell that he is hiding something.


Also, it would be just fair to those waiting. If they all decide to request refunding, Craig can't pay and someone takes that to court or whatever, he, his company and everything connected to that is in serious trouble.

 

[GigaPower]

Well you can reduce Craig's pre-order queue by one! I've finally decided to bit the bullet and I've just upgraded my pre-order over at ED's shop. With a bit of luck I should have my Pandora by Christmas.

 

[Godmil]

Nice one GigaPower

So Craig should clearly state how many orders he has left to fulfill, nobody cares if it's a few dozen more or less ("Number unknown because steady refunds", or so).

but what if it was several hundred more than you expected? I can imagine many people faced with a number that was much larger than they expected could panic and go "Oh S**t! I better get a refund request in quickly!". I have a feeling that since Craig said he'd say what the current state is after the recent upgrades have gone through that the number will soon be in a range that wont scare people off.

I believe Ed estimated that Craig likely needed 2000 euros/month to run his shop. This is an expense that must come from revenues somewhere. Going to one shop would likely relieve some of this expense. The remaining shop expenses may increase somewhat due to extra volume.

But going bankrupt isn't a magical cure. The man still has to earn some money to keep his home, and have food. What would happen to Craig if from now on he's got a huge black mark over his head, what does he do to earn a living? We can't just sit back and post stuff like.. "Craig isn't doing a good job of recovering from this financial problem.... he should just fold his business!"

 

[fusion_power]

Checking the numbers of availabel/sold 1GHz Pandoras in ED's Shop is a good way to see, how it's going. And it seems to go pretty well, numbers of Pandoras in stock goes down pretty fast and it seems that there are also comming new Units in pretty fast.


I'm still in search for an complete overview of ALL Pandoras ever built and shipped (classic, rebirth and 1GHz) but overall the Pandora sales seems to run pretty well.

 

[notaz]

I think everyone would feel better if you were able to get a complete up to date list of Craig's pandora customer obligations and details so you had the information needed to complete your plan.

When Hell freezes over you can get such info form Craig..

 

[EvilDragon]

I think everyone would feel better if you were able to get a complete up to date list of Craig's pandora customer obligations and details so you had the information needed to complete your plan.

When Hell freezes over you can get such info form Craig..

It's pretty cold here at the moment

 

[crazyhorse]

He's probably busy cruising in his new Nissan Leaf.

 

[dooble]

I think everyone would feel better if you were able to get a complete up to date list of Craig's pandora customer obligations and details so you had the information needed to complete your plan.

When Hell freezes over you can get such info form Craig..

It's pretty cold here at the moment

Ed, To fulfill your plan to ship to both your and Criag's pre-orders, I would assume you really would need to know where to ship them and what needs shipped. That is unless you are just shipping to Craig.

 

[ShleeDragon]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/HNTxr2NJHa0?feature=oembed

 

[Yoyobuae]

Hi,

Your order has just been shipped.


Thank you for shopping with DragonBox!


DragonBox - http://www.dragonbox.de/

Yeah, that's more like it. Thanks ED.

 

[rohezal]

Now get the numbers from Craig, send them with EDs message to all preorders, let them see the calculations and maybe a few qoutes from this post like the above one, and you will get a lot of upgrades and less refund requests.


EDIT: And a lot of people will be happy that someone takes care of their preorders.

 

[andmaz777]

It's all about cash flow with the refunds I believe - refunding drains cash flow whilst upgrades and new orders helps cash flow.


Obviously a lot of money will be tied up in stock.


Once cash runs out either there is a long wait for new sales or bankruptcy - as this has been a community project then the latter can be the very last resort - it does sound like if ED can increase sales then all the problems will go away.


I hope that Craig is going to start advertising and selling units within the UK - some people will only order within their own country albeit personally I know that ED is 1,000% trustworthy.


Craig has been unlucky that his 1ghz test run pre order plan just went so wrong but if we want a Pandora 2 then it all has to workout well - ICP2 could be the saviour for Craig.

 

[palstyo]

It's all about cash flow with the refunds I believe - refunding drains cash flow whilst upgrades and new orders helps cash flow.


Obviously a lot of money will be tied up in stock.


Once cash runs out either there is a long wait for new sales or bankruptcy - as this has been a community project then the latter can be the very last resort - it does sound like if ED can increase sales then all the problems will go away.


I hope that Craig is going to start advertising and selling units within the UK - some people will only order within their own country albeit personally I know that ED is 1,000% trustworthy.


Craig has been unlucky that his 1ghz test run pre order plan just went so wrong but if we want a Pandora 2 then it all has to workout well - ICP2 could be the saviour for Craig.

That's is not good idea especially Craig selling units within UK.


Coz. there is no guarantee to send money to ED.(not just ED, everyone who paid for 1GHz pre and upgrade)


Well it only works if Craig shop just do advertising and to order process is actual money will directly to ED then ship from ED as well.


Also he was not unlucky ,actually he was lucky coz. he has plenty of money(it's our money who upgrade/new order from Craig like me) in his hands at that time and use it for different purpose .

 

[andmaz777]

Craig needs to make new sales - any new orders from ED would then be paid for from the proceeds. No money then no units.


Of course Craig needs to have existing stock to do this or funds to purchase units - think the latter is a no no - could be a case of chicken and egg!


With the recession a lot of people who really want a unit now cannot afford and the few that can would only do so within the UK - for this type of customer a local sales outlet is needed.

 

[palstyo]

Craig needs to make new sales - any new orders from ED would then be paid for from the proceeds. No money then no units.


Of course Craig needs to have existing stock to do this or funds to purchase units - think the latter is a no no - could be a case of chicken and egg!


With the recession a lot of people who really want a unit now cannot afford and the few that can would only do so within the UK - for this type of customer a local sales outlet is needed.

Well my point of view is Craig need money to run his company so if he did like you wrote there is no profit from his sales until more than that.


And I think he don't have actual shop in UK, his his shop is just on the web like ED.

 

[palstyo]

Hi ED,


First of all thank you for your really great post, honesty I'm really happy to read that coz, I feel I was doomed when I read Craig's POST.


One things I'd like to know about new/upgrade 1GHz Preorder from Craig who still not shipped yet.(yes like me)


Is that amount also include within number of Preorders from Craig?


If that so doesn't matter.


Actually I order spear battery and some parts with 1GHz but may be I should forget about it,I'll order it again from you when my 1GHz unit available someday.

 

[webcraaawler]

<snip>


Lets say that there is 400 of us remaining as 1st pre-orderers... (even Godmil assume it is more) and lets presume that cost of unit is 500$.


It is 200K bucks. Sounds too much... but it is not. It is just question of trust: that if somebody spent your donation money to e.g. ICP2 project without asking/informing you... well, then it is toooo much, because he won't get enough money... no meter how much you earn from ICP2 sell... because you lost trust from supporters. youtu.be/WSkv_29Rncg Craigix, how about some honesty to your loyal supporters?


And there is no donation list as well. Btw I already donated money, there is no mention of that anywhere... Look at the Humble Indie Bundle... I spent 100+ $ and I'm not regret any... but I'm listed there, because everything is transparent. And we are talking about hundred thousands of happy customers / supporters, and millions of profit. (It is easier to handle software then any hardware, but... still millions, and project grows)

Yeah I agree 1) Humble Indie Bundle is done really well ... 2) Yeah there will be trust issues if Craig did use the money for iCP2 (but you would think that the $200K from Kickstarter is what he used ... he wouldn't need 1 Ghz money)


I just want to say that I have no idea if he took the 1 Ghz money for iCP2. I am just saying that if he did, I hope it works out for him. At any rate, maybe once the iCP2 kickstart backers get their units, and thing get settled with iCP2, the regular sales if iCP2 (his revenue from) can fix Craigs Pandora issues.

 

[thatgui]

How a about a relay - sales model ?


ED keeps a certain amount reserved for craig (though not shipping them). Craig starts selling them as "in stock" but telling people that due to the distribution center beeing located in Germany the shipping will probably take up to 1 or 2 weeks (depending on the buyers location). When payment is done, craig deducts his profit (minus some small extra costs for shipping) from the money, and transfers the rest to Eds bank account. Also sending Ed the buyers address, so Ed could send the Pandora to the customer directly after the payment has arrived on his account.


This surly would decrease the provit (transfer fees, higher shipping costs) but would allow craig to sell them from stock