... we're still alive!

[Neelix]

There is no way for me to directly communicate Truth, and so I end up weaving whatever material happens across my path into a reflective surface.

That must be a useful skill with the way you keep breaking mirrors.

On topic: Theory tells me 8GB should be enough, especially given the fact that we'll have the DBP system in place. Experience tells me 32GB would significantly extend the time before one starts wondering what happened to all that extra space.

-Neelix

 

[Luke-Jr]

If I keep he planned margin of 15%, then the prices would be:
8 GB: 4,84 EUR
16 GB: 8,46 EUR
32 GB: 12,10 EUR

So using 32GB eMMC instead of 8GB will increase the end price by 7,26 EUR.

Looks like a typical price for a Class10 32 GB SD card is 15.72 EUR.
And a 64 GB SD card is 17.57 EUR. So 24.20 EUR is a mere 6.63 EUR over the cost to have it external, and it leaves the SD card slot free.
So, even if you keep a 15% margin here, I'd personally still prefer the 64 GB size.

In theory, unless I'm missing something, you also wouldn't lose anything to calculate your margin with the cheaper part instead, but as you say, 15% is perfectly reasonable.
If 15% margin just meant the price is a bit higher, I'd say go for it... but if it means only 32 GB instead of 64 GB... :/

 

[FaeMinx]

That must be a useful skill with the way you keep breaking mirrors.

I admit it is a somewhat childish compulsion... I seem to relentlessly beat myself up for not living up to myself... I have zero tolerance for childish behaviour.

And then I just get the Hell in with myself.

I will make fun of anyone who dares tease me! Bloody mirrors...

They're bloody asking for it they are...
Damn kids...

 

[rygD]

@rygD, what about if I said why have three SD type slots (2 SD and one uSD) , surely the other portion of users shouldn't have to pay for three slots. Why do you need three slots, surely we have enough storage options/limit with just 2. See how that works.

I wasn't saying anything bad about the decision. I am pretty happy we will be getting 32GB. I would also be ok with less, as well, because of exactly the things you mentioned (don't forget we have those USB ports, too!). I would give up an SD slot for more RAM, a metal case, or a single wide space "bar" to free up another key...or maybe even a camera in a very strange place for those that "need" one. At least it would be convenient for belly, crotch or feet pics.

My question was really a bit of a joke to mention all those kinds of things (the wanted hardware, not showing off shoes), since they would also require additional money, but without naming them. PLEASE DO NOT ACTUALLY DEBATE THOSE THINGS THAT WERE DECIDED LONG AGO. Please.

Now that I let it sink in a little bit, I might be ok giving up 2 of the card slots as long as one of the full size ones was kept, and it remained in place. We have the USB ports. I wouldn't want to inflict my preferences on others, though.

I have zero tolerance for childish behaviour.

Oh, come on, have some fun.

On that note, I liked ED's joke from the 1st.

 

[vcoleiro1]

@rygD
Just to be clear, no one is debating the SD cards . And by the way, why are you yelling.

ED has made the decision apparently to use a 32GB eMMC, so let's move on shall we.

 

[rygD]

@vcoleiro1 I know no one is talking about getting rid of the card slots. You mentioned it, so I said I would be willing to lose one to get other things.

I wasn't "yelling", I was making that sentence stand out so this thread doesn't turn into yet another keyboard, RAM, or camera debate.

You were the one that replied to my stupid post. Sure, lets move on... (I thought that was what I was doing. Maybe that was directed at others.)

 

[Klumpen]

Nice to see that it will have 32GB as it seems.

Still, it's sad seeing how much you struggle to do something and then there are so many ignorant people out there who call you greedy as Apple or some other favourite smartphone manufacturer is cheaper, so they make a lot less profit...

Every small company that is producing hardware products of any kind has this problem, that's why software development, management of outsourced production and reselling is what people rather do to get money.
When we're selling our instruments at festivals, there are always people sneering at or outright being insulted by our prices although they aren't much higher compared to the competition and are how they are due to the fact that we make everything as light/loud/nice as possible (which also means: having to make it ourselves and out of as few parts as possible), have special tuning systems nobody else is able to make, maximum customizability, a light modular system for all kinds of future extensions, etc... I'm working for minimum wage and my boss for even less and those people are usually rich people with iPhones, go figure.

Although getting the implication of being greedy thrown into one's face when it couldn't be farther away from the truth is insulting indeed, you just have to ignore those idiots.

 

[Bosbeetle]

Nice to see that it will have 32GB as it seems.


Every small company that is producing hardware products of any kind has this problem, that's why software development, management of outsourced production and reselling is what people rather do to get money.
When we're selling our instruments at festivals, there are always people sneering at or outright being insulted by our prices although they aren't much higher compared to the competition and are how they are due to the fact that we make everything as light/loud/nice as possible (which also means: having to make it ourselves and out of as few parts as possible), have special tuning systems nobody else is able to make, maximum customizability, a light modular system for all kinds of future extensions, etc... I'm working for minimum wage and my boss for even less and those people are usually rich people with iPhones, go figure.

Although getting the implication of being greedy thrown into one's face when it couldn't be farther away from the truth is insulting indeed, you just have to ignore those idiots.

Now Im curious about what kind of instruments you are making

 

[FaeMinx]

Oh, come on, have some fun.

*knock knock knock*
Hello in there! ...Is Anybody home?

My goodness, wouldn't you know... I must be invisible...

Maybe I'll just leave a message to say I was here...

 

[Black Sliver]

Now, if I would take 250% profit on the production costs of one Pyra, it would cost 875 EUR... instead, the price will be around 500 EUR

Under normal circumstances I'd say +200% is reasonable for small to medium batches, where 100% goes to handling (sales, returns, support, ...) and up to ~100% may be profit *after* return of investment. But that may be slightly different for pyra, since the part costs are pretty high, so +100% for handling seems a lot and only part of handling scales with production/part costs. My feeling tells me that your calculation can't be off by too much. I'd love to see it for that price. Imho neo900 just got too expensive, which means less customers which means even higher price. You should try to avoid that circle of doom.

Compared to Apple? Apple is more like give me all your moniez™ since the development costs* per planned sales is very little and after-market should not be higher than what others (android) do. So for apple everything above the +100% is most likely profit or image (stores, ads, "free" projects (swift), ...).

* for the hardware, assuming the SoC development has paid off.

 

[mius]

I don't understand why so many people still want more and more storage. What you guys want to do with your Pyra? Using it as Data-Storage Server or what?

Well, I would've preferred 4 GB of RAM instead of pushing internal storage over a minimum of 16 GB, but since the former's only gonna happen down the line with an updated CPU board (given that a Pyra Royale is also off the table), which might be two years away, I take every extra I can get.

 

[Foxgod]

ED decided on 32GB, cool, personally 16GB would have been enough, but if it pleases people, why not.
At least if Linux distro's install size explodes for some reason in the future, we can still upgrade to newer distro's, without having to worry about space.

 

[Mr_Loon]

I would not listen to all these "more Storage" people, honestly. Nobody really needs 32GB internal memory

There is a big difference between need & want.

Here's why I would want 32GB : I think there would be tangible benefits in terms of speed when using eMMC to run apps or an alternate OS when compared to SD/USB. This is based on my experience of using a Windows tablet, the only device I own with an eMMC and multiple storage options (micro SD, USB2, USB3). However this tablet is a budget device (£130 delivered) from a pretty much unknown manufacturer (Chuwi). So I don't really know if my experiences with the tablet are a reasonable comparison of what to expect with Pyra, Chuwi might have used an ultra cheap & crappy SD controller, have sub optimal drivers etc.

As mentioned before it would be great to have some actual benchmarks & reports of general user perception for Pyra when comparing running Apps / OS from eMMC and the other viable options (SD, Micro SD & USB2). Without this information it is difficult (for me) to make a sensible decision about what I want / need / am willing to pay extra for.

 

[Swordfish II]

@Black Sliver

Interesting you bring up the neo900. I loved my n900, but it had some substantial issues and I was very interested in the neo900, but I realized a few things: like you said the neo900 is super expensive so there won't be many purchased or produced, smaller numbers and a less active user base means few to no new software development for it. So essentially you pay a lot of money for something that runs exactly the same stuff as the n900 with the same shortcomings. No thanks.

But it did steer my to the Pandora and Pyra.

Edit: and they don't have a ptitseb

 

[EvilDragon]

I think one of the biggest issues with the Neo900 is the SoC.
It uses the same one the 1GHz Pandora uses. While that's nice, it's too slow these days IMO, there wouldn't be a huge improvement compared to the original N900.

If it would at least use an OMAP4, I would seriously considering it.
Currently, my Droid4 uses the OMAP4, but it runs Android. I would much prefer the N900 Linux on an OMAP4...

I guess that's one of the reasons the Neo900 doesn't sell that well and therefore has that high price, as they still need to get the production and development costs back.

Because of that high price, even less buy it.

The idea is great, but the improvement too little.

 

[rygD]

Wouldn't the neo900 be able to use SZ and some of the Pandora software/PNDs?

Edit: I guess if you did that you would also need to add stuff to use it as a smartphone as well.

 

[Swordfish II]

Possibly. I know the mupen for the n900 was adapted from the Pandora.

AFAIK the producer of the neo900 isn't putting any units out to developers either (unlike ED)

 

[rygD]

A big part of that difference is this community came from other open source handheld communities. ED and others have been around since back then. The Pandora exists because of those communities. The Pyra is just the most recent hardware in this lineage, and ED knows that without support from developers and the community the hardware can't reach its full potential.

Are there people with a proven track record that are willing to take on the responsibility to help out with software and OS stuff for Neo900? I wonder if sales will pick up eventually, or if the price will stay high, and even those that might be interested will continue to see it as too expensive with not enough to offer, as it seems a few here feel.

 

[EvilDragon]

The DM3730 (1GHz Pandora SoC) is pretty much compatible with the OMAP3 (N900), so the software for the Neo900 should basically work out of the box.

 

[TrashyMG]

Wouldn't the neo900 be able to use SZ and some of the Pandora software/PNDs?

The DM3730 (1GHz Pandora SoC) is pretty much compatible with the OMAP3 (N900), so the software for the Neo900 should basically work out of the box.

About the only hangup I see would be would be the keyboard, some of the hardware like wifi and bluetooth, status LEDs and such may be wired up differently. so a bit of OS hacking would need to be done.