... we're still alive!

[_jr_]

The pandora suffers greatly from only having 512 MB internal storage. Just look at the clusterfuck that is the code::blocks PND. Had we had storage to install those tools properly, things would've been an awful lot better.

In my experience the 512Mb is not a significant Problem (actually notaz's gcc/g++ package fits nicely including the dev packages for firmware libraries). There are very few things that absolutely have to be installed at fixed locations under /bin, /usr, /lib, or /etc. Pretty much everything can (due to diverse unix history) easily live on an SD card and be made accessible using the appropriate ENV variables. In the worst case a couple of symlinks to the SD card will help (though it is often easier - and less ugly - to fix the offending package to not use hardcoded paths).

The larger problems for me were that some newer packages cannot easily coexist with the firmware versions.

PS: one significant problem to overcome was that /bin/sh is (was? haven't checked the latest firmware update) suid which kills LD_LIBRARY_PATH; I've fixed that by having a non suid copy of busy box to which /bin/sh is linked

Serious question: Is that normal use? I don't mess with that stuff, so it isn't normal for my use, but I don't know what everyone else does.

It's normal use for me and it mostly hasn't been a problem (I had problems getting the necessary prerequisites for a newer gnumeric built, but that was due to the old firmware glib version at the time; might be easier today)

 

[levi]

A while back I needed to get a microSD card for one of my devices. I figured I'd only need a small one, so I asked for the smallest card they had at the store, which I figured would be 2GB. Turned out the lowest capacity they carried was 8GB.

2GB cards are kind of pricey right now because they're the biggest size of official non-HC SD card, and a few old devices don't play well with larger cards. But yeah, 4GB cards are cheaper, and 8GB cheaper still in a recent search I've been doing for a card that I can use to test out a slot that used to eat cards on the old OS, and I want to see if the OS change has fixed anything. Not bought anything yet since even 8GB seems a little much to throw away

 

[Grench]

2GB cards are kind of pricey right now because they're the biggest size of official non-HC SD card, and a few old devices don't play well with larger cards. But yeah, 4GB cards are cheaper, and 8GB cheaper still in a recent search I've been doing for a card that I can use to test out a slot that used to eat cards on the old OS, and I want to see if the OS change has fixed anything. Not bought anything yet since even 8GB seems a little much to throw away

From my Tapwave Zodiac days I still have a pair of non-HC 4GB SD cards. Those 4GB non-HC SD cards are now unobtanium.

The Zodiac could take 2 SD cards. 8GB of storage on a single pocketed device seemed like so much space back then.

 

[slaeshjag]

I have a 4 GB non-SDHC miniSD. One day, I'll get rich selling that off.

 

[WizardStan]

Just look at the clusterfuck that is the code::blocks PND

1) I wouldn't call code::blocks "normal use".
2) Seems to have worked out just fine to me, I don't see any suffering from needing to use an SD card for it.

 

[rygD]

I have a 4 GB non-SDHC miniSD. One day, I'll get rich selling that off.

I was already thinking of offering to buy it by the end of the first sentence. When I read the second sentence I decided I probably can't afford it.

 

[Bosbeetle]

I guess compiling stuff on a handheld would be considered powerusage in most cases.

 

[bukkit]

So the analog Volume Wheel of the Pyra is not even a analog volume Wheel?

It's an analogue wheel, but not put in the analogue circuit before the headphones/speakers, instead it's digitized into the DAC input. (Therefore EvilDragon is wrong; there must be a finite resolution. Atm it's afaik unknown how high the resolution will be; an informed guess was 10bit.)

I'm a tad disappointed too, I must say, most reasons already mentioned here. All the time when the Pandora's features in comparison to a cellphone/game console/pc were discussed, I regularly missed the aspect of the Pandora being a truly formidable audio player.
And a hardware, analogue, in-circuit volume wheel is an extremely rare luxury these days, which to my knowledge no other comparable device offers. I know all the arguments for this decision, and all pros I guess, but still, in my experience, especially when it is about very very low volumes, digital resolution often doesn't offer me a setting between "too loud for my wishes" and "mute". I hope I'll be proven wrong here. Another unknown might be the DACs reaction to the input of a scratching wheel. Also I share the doubts some people mentioned about having no 100% reliable means of shutting the Pandora off. So I'm sad to see that go.
And on the other hand, analogue stereo volume wheels always have a tendency to malform the balance when it comes to low volumes. This could be an advantage of the digitized wheel, if that's mono or if it's averaged befor going into the DAC.

These are some aspects not yet having been argued about... I hope... In summary, no reason to cancel the preorder here, though.

 

[stevenc99]

It's an analogue wheel, but not put in the analogue circuit before the headphones/speakers, instead it's digitized into the DAC input.

It looks to me like a rotary encoder, maybe without end-stops; meaning it just issues vol-up/down commands and you could probably customise how big a step you want and how low a volume you want to be possible? Just depends how sensitive it is to rotation and how much turning is comfortable.

(Because decreasing volume is reducing the gain in steps: -72, -76, -82...; consumer electronics often sets a threshold where it jumps to -infinity (totally mute), otherwise some would complain at having to turn the dial so far to get the volume all the way back up again.)

 

[slaeshjag]

It's an analogue wheel.

 

[stevenc99]

It's an analogue wheel.

Ah, thanks. So it has end stops and adjusts some potentiometer?

So as @bukkit says it comes down to the ADC's resolution as to how many volume steps there can be. Even 8 bits would be a luxury, and much finer-grained than a rotary encoder.

 

[levi]

FWIW, analogue volume wheels often seem to be 10K variable resistors, so at the 'off' end it's actually a 10 Kiloohm resistance. I don't know off the top of my head how to translate that resistance to decibels, but it seems a comfortable level where you don't have to turn the wheel too far to get sound, but it's still off enough at the off end.

For me, even if it's only an 8 bit encoding of the analogue wheel that drives the DAC volume, 256 levels is probably enough for me. In my experience, push button volume controls only have about ten steps - mplayer has about 25 steps.

 

[TrashyMG]

Ah, thanks. So it has end stops and adjusts some potentiometer?

It IS a regular potentiometer. It's just tied to an ADC, that digitally controls the audio output.

 

[pmprog]

Can't remember anyone saying (though I'm sure somebody would have), but can you still change the volume whilst it's turned off then?

 

[rygD]

Can't remember anyone saying (though I'm sure somebody would have), but can you still change the volume whilst it's turned off then?

Probably not, but it depends. This was discussed, but I don't know where. Maybe someone else has a link to those posts.

 

[_jr_]

Can't remember anyone saying (though I'm sure somebody would have), but can you still change the volume whilst it's turned off then?

Since the position of the wheel represents an absolute value it is possible. Whether software support already exists i can't remember, but ED was talking about this somewhere.

 

[stevenc99]

Can't remember anyone saying (though I'm sure somebody would have), but can you still change the volume whilst it's turned off then?

Yeah, that should just work, without any special handling, if it's as described above. To react to changes, something must constantly poll the ADC anyway to get the current position of the potentiometer. If the Pyra was powered off/on or suspended, it would notice a change in position immediately on next boot, and adjust the output volume in software.

This does sound really cool, as it keeps the advantages of an analog pot, while being able to alter or override the behaviour in software. You could probably repurpose it as a control input, like to a synth, a modulation wheel, brightness dimmer...

 

[rygD]

You could probably repurpose it as a control input, like to a synth, a modulation wheel, brightness dimmer...

Hmmm, brightness button and moving the wheel should be set up to do that.

 

[TrashyMG]

Honestly I think it would be too clunky to use it for multiple uses software wise, I rather it just handle the master volume. But I could be wrong...

 

[stevenc99]

Hmmm, brightness button and moving the wheel should be set up to do that.

Ah that wouldn't work, as when you let go of the brightness button, whatever controls the volume will notice that the wheel has moved... it could be used for only one function at a time. Yes, volume makes the most sense for most people, but there may be other creative uses for it.