The following is based on a true story.


It is too early to be thinking about new SoC boards. . . A new SoC would be more appropriate 1.5-2 years after the Pyra releases.

Exactly, lets not have a kickstarter this early, say a year and a half like you said.

But - I could see where a Kickstarter might work for an alternate Pyra based product that would add publicity to the project and the current model.

I don't think this is a good idea, especially a 'Pyrathin', no changes to the hardware until we get at least a few CPU/GPU board revisions. This would make it so the cost of producing the Pyra not go down.

Much of the software that you're referring to maturing is directly related to specific hardware.

I don't think you understood me, we should wait until the current software is mature on the current hardware, or what is released. There is no way it will be perfect for mass appeal. I use Linux exclusively and just the OS alone needs tweaking for the Pyra before you can just have anyone pay full price for a Pyra. Everything needs to mature for the masses.

Grench, you seem like a knowledgeable person when it comes to tech, I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about possibly thousands of people that would order the Pyra thinking it would be as refined software wise as something Apple puts out. The OS and the software needs time to get the bugs out, I think 1.5 years to 2 years would be good enough.

If ED makes any changes to the main board in that time and introduces it in a kickstarter with the revised CPU boards that's fine as long as the CPU board works on the current version of the Pyra so people can both upgrade and/or get a whole new Pyra.
 
I don't think this is a good idea, especially a 'Pyrathin', no changes to the hardware until we get at least a few CPU/GPU board revisions. This would make it so the cost of producing the Pyra not go down.

I think we're on the same page for the most part.

The Pyrathin idea though would not be a major hardware change. Yes new case plastics - which would be funded by the campaign. Yes, a mainboard revision - but that would be -minor- by comparison to designing a new SoC board or 'new' main board. Re-read my description for the Pyrathin. It is a 2nd version of the same board. The changes would be to traces to mount thinner ports in the same places as the existing full size ports. Electrically the two devices would be the same with the exception of the eSATA through the 2nd USB port. A microUSB plug would not have the needed connectors for it. Otherwise it's a direct trace to trace copy.
microUSB 3.0 stays
microHDMI stays
microUSB charging port stays
USB 2.0 host changes to microUSB 2.0 host. Electrically the same.
USB 2.0 host/eSATA changes to microUSB 2.0 host. Electrically the same. (no pins for the eSATA on microUSB connector)
SDXC left changes to microSDXC left. Electrically the same.
SDXC right changes to microSDXC right. Electrically the same.
A new battery - thinner and/or L shaped to go around the SoC board. Same voltage, half the capacity.

It would serve an additional market of those who want/need a thinner device and are willing to sacrifice the full sized ports, ergonomic gaming comfort and extreme battery life of the Pyra to get there while maintaining direct hardware and software compatibility.

The Pyra is a niche device. A Pyrathin alternative form factor could widen the niche with minimal added production costs. Since they take the same SoC board, both would use the same upgrade board in ~2 years.

I'm happy with the Pyra - I like full sized ports & SD slots and giant battery life. But, I can already tell that the #1 complaint from reviewers and people considering buying one is going to be something like: "Wow - great device, but it's as thick as a paving brick!"

And before someone says it - this isn't a demand for a Pyrathin (name negotiable). It is a potential answer to, "What could DragonBox do on Kickstarter to maximize the existing investment in the Pyra?"
 
Well, if you want a smaller device why not just change every USB port to USB C, can't a USB C port be wired on a USB 2.0 or 3.0 mainboard? It won't be C speeds but it will be smaller, not require a break out cable, and will be more readily available in the future.

I think a major revision to the main board is alright in 1.5 years to 2 years as long as it won't change the upgrade CPU board so it will work with both the new and old boards. So lets just keep going with the current Pyra for a few years and let the platform mature then do a kickstarter with various upgrades.
 
I don't see an issue with doing a Kickstarter for the Pyra. It's up to ED and his finance calculations regarding what price he would use. That said, if he wanted to add 5-10% to cater for KS fees etc , then that wouldn't be an issue IMO. GPD did that with the WIN when they did the Japanese crowdfunding on Makuake, it was 10-20% (varying with later backer levels) more expensive there . This happened just after the WIN Indiegogo campaign which was a lot cheaper. I didn't see anyone complain about the price diff.

I would say that you would need to stop pre-orders here about a month before the KS tough, just to have some separation. Moreover, it probably would be prudent to not do it until after current pre-orders were delivered and production was proven - unless that invalidates KS rules for being on there
 
Last edited:
The kickstarter could be awesome in order to low the price and give some public light to the project (because being honest, this project is still in a deep dark cavern).

I doubt the price would be lower. ED ran the development costs etc with the current prices on here at one point and they are very close. He also mentioned that kick starter takes a cut which would further cut into profits, and in order to turn out well... He would need to undercut what the site sells at...

Maybe a confusing way to write it. But here is an example illustrating with fake numbers: essentially if preorders cost $600, ED makes $50 with all said and done ($550 would break even). KS takes 25% so at full price of $600, ED would take a loss on each one ($450).

Granted manufacturing/prototype costs do decrease with an increase in production.. But that is hard to forecast the amount that it would increase and would make KS either not worth it or risky IMO.
 
Last edited:
i like the idea of a kickstarter for the second CPU board (plus any slightly-upgraded main stuff). by that time, the pyra will have matured nicely, and less people would complain about the "old" CPU (since it would be updated). gives ED time to think about the next steps, no rushing, etc.

i also like the idea of a pyra-mote as just the bottom half with much stuff unpopulated. (bonus points if we can market the hinge as something without needing to take it off the moulds :D.) i'd consider keeping the speakers and rumble, so it could play bluetooth music and give feedback to other games.

but of course, first things first... and definitely no supervolcanos........
 
Pyramote or Pyra-mote sounds better than Pymote.

It rolls off the tongue better, and is a nice play on remote.

Good thinking Grench. :)

Edit: .. and people will be less likely to miss associate it with the Raspberry Pi (even though it will be an excellent accessory for that too).
 
Last edited:
Hi, i am a "long time lurker".

Kickstarter (at this point) is a bed idea because as said before the Pyra is not "noob ready" jet.
In the past the most important thing when buying a new "smart phone" was its community surrounding it, especially its quality not only its quantity of people.
I am using a oneplus one at the moment and before that the nexus 4, both had good community support compared to other devices.

My fear would be that not so technical users could harm the community in the beginning.
If i would ask for example why the sound stutters, so badly on my oneplus one in a linux chroot using pulse, the answers would probably not be helpful ;)
where as in this community such questions would be more normal to ask.

Grench said:
But, I can already tell that the #1 complaint from reviewers and people considering buying one is going to be something like: "Wow - great device, but it's as thick as a paving brick!"

:) probably true, but its a good weapon to.

As i am probably finally preorder one soon, whats the best way to carry a "brick" and a phone (whiteout smashing the phone) ;)
I think the Pyra is probably a "little" to bulky to fit together with my phone in one pocket, and i dont want to carry a backpack
 
Edit: .. and people will be less likely to miss associate it with the Raspberry Pi (even though it will be an excellent accessory for that too).

For me, a name starting with "py" makes me think about Python stuff.
So I'd rather see /pyra.*/ names for products around the main Pyra.
 
@kabaiakh true, i thought at python stuff to, there is even some python project called pymote already ^^ (github.com/darbula/pymote)
 
pyralight.png


;)
 
I think the Pyra is probably a "little" to bulky to fit together with my phone in one pocket, and i dont want to carry a backpack

Welcome to the boards, NOP. Good job your post actually got registered with a name like that ;)

For me even with the slightly slimmer Pandora, I can't fit it all the way in to most of my jeans pockets, so I only carry it like that around the house when I'm doing the dishes or otherwise basically stood up for a stretch so I can use it to listen to some podcasts. Out and about if it's winter I can fit it in a coat pocket okay, and in the summer I need to carry a messenger bag/laptop bag to take it with me. I don't see why it should be any better or worse for the Pyra.
 
After ED has the current 1000+ pre-order Pyra's made and shipped. Will he then have enough money to make the next batch and put them up for sale? Or will he need to do another pre-order to fund the next batch?
 
@levi Thank you. I saw somewhere a DSLR belt clip thingy (amazon.com/SUPON-Camera-Holster-Hunter-Loading/dp/B00VMTCB14) maybe i can somehow mount the metal part on the Pyra for example using the lanyard slot, some string and a nut. Would look somewhat strange but then you could draw it like a gun. Or way simpler i need bigger pockets to carry a Pyra comfortably ^^

Maybe i could glue some velcro to the back, but i think the Pyra is to heavy to hold securely when moving (i tested the Pyra prototype at the gamescom)

only two more Months™ ;)
 
:) probably true, but its a good weapon to.
The original BlackBerry devices made fantastic hand axes.

As i am probably finally preorder one soon, whats the best way to carry a "brick" and a phone (whiteout smashing the phone) ;)
I think the Pyra is probably a "little" to bulky to fit together with my phone in one pocket, and i dont want to carry a backpack

The long term answer to that is probably to buy a 4G Pyra and a bluetooth headset and ditch the phone. Short term I'm counting on needing a phone too as the software development 'gets there'.
[doublepost=1493907244,1493907062][/doublepost]
Pyramote or Pyra-mote sounds better than Pymote.

It rolls off the tongue better, and is a nice play on remote.

Good thinking Grench. :)

Edit: .. and people will be less likely to miss associate it with the Raspberry Pi (even though it will be an excellent accessory for that too).

Thanks - I didn't think you'd mind if I threw in another permutation of the working name.
[doublepost=1493907667][/doublepost]
i also like the idea of a pyra-mote as just the bottom half with much stuff unpopulated. (bonus points if we can market the hinge as something without needing to take it off the moulds :D.)
Easy.

Instead of a screen plastics piece, attach a (removable) selfie stick style phone clamp to it.
Alternatively, a flip up keyboard/controls protective cover (using the hinges) so that it can go in/out of your pocket without tweaking the nubs.

i'd consider keeping the speakers and rumble, so it could play bluetooth music and give feedback to other games.
but of course, first things first... and definitely no supervolcanos........
For the bluetooth device to make sound (even through the speakers), it will need it's own SoC with a DSP. If it crosses that line and becomes a 'computer', then it could also act as a bluetooth handset, dialer, keyboard, game controls, etc... But, by then we're talking about a much more expensive device.
 
Grench said:
The long term answer to that is probably to buy a 4G Pyra and a bluetooth headset and ditch the phone. Short term I'm counting on needing a phone too as the software development 'gets there'.
That was my plan to, at first i thought about using my phone as hotspot for the Pyra, but then my phone dies way to fast.

Grench said:
Alternatively, a flip up keyboard/controls protective cover (using the hinges) so that it can go in/out of your pocket without tweaking the nubs.
That reminds me of these logitech keyboards but they have no gaming controls :(


Logitech_dinovo_8.jpg
 
I am using a oneplus one at the moment and before that the nexus 4, both had good community support compared to other devices.

Ha I just resurected my Nexus 4. Fantastic phone. I went to the SGS II because it supported packet injection on the native wifi...but I don't really use packet injection much anymore sooo. Yay for enabling 4G on the Nexus 4!
 
Back
Top