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Screaming in the elevator to freak out people may be fun, I don't know, but to me it seems to be an example of something you really don't need to do, because: why? Just to be different is no reason, there is no inherent good in being different. There is just inherent good in being yourself, no matter whether "yourself" is relatively mainstream or completely crazy.
For fun... those simple moments that you will remember forever, without hurting anyone.

How can you act as "yourself" if you mind so much what the other people will think of you ?
Just like that.
I want something? I do it. I think something? I say it. I have two more or less equal possibilities, one of which will just alienate random people? I'll do the normal one. I have two possibilities, one is fun, one will alienate random people? I'll think about it. Probably the fun one.

But screaming in an escalator for the sake of it doesn't sound like me. Not really fun. Just neutral. So why do it?

On the other hand, for example I've got a kind of running gag with a guy, sometimes when we see each other we yell each others names and hug each other. I find that pretty funny, although it alienates lots of people ("Is he gay?", "Is he crazy?"), so I do it, sometimes.

(of course I don't think there are too many people who are really mainstream, there are just lots of people who don't stand up for their opinions)
I don't know, many people don't seem to have any opinions and just repeat what they've heard.
Sure.But I'm trying to be positive and believe that the opinions are still there and they've only kind of buried them in their subconsciousness and could maybe find them again at some point.
 
Screaming in the elevator to freak out people may be fun, I don't know, but to me it seems to be an example of something you really don't need to do, because: why? Just to be different is no reason, there is no inherent good in being different. There is just inherent good in being yourself, no matter whether "yourself" is relatively mainstream or completely crazy.
For fun... those simple moments that you will remember forever, without hurting anyone.

How can you act as "yourself" if you mind so much what the other people will think of you ?
Just like that.
I want something? I do it. I think something? I say it. I have two more or less equal possibilities, one of which will just alienate random people? I'll do the normal one. I have two possibilities, one is fun, one will alienate random people? I'll think about it. Probably the fun one.

But screaming in an escalator for the sake of it doesn't sound like me. Not really fun. Just neutral. So why do it?

On the other hand, for example I've got a kind of running gag with a guy, sometimes when we see each other we yell each others names and hug each other. I find that pretty funny, although it alienates lots of people ("Is he gay?", "Is he crazy?"), so I do it, sometimes.
I can't understand, you speak as you are countering what I said, but you are telling the same things I said... maybe I expressed myself in the wrong way ?

The "hug" example you made seems exactly like the elevator joke, same reasons, and almost same reactions...

also my question was rhetoric, because if you mind too much of the others you just DON'T do what you want to do...

in your case, you don't mind, that's why you can act as "yourself"
 
Screaming in the elevator to freak out people may be fun, I don't know, but to me it seems to be an example of something you really don't need to do, because: why? Just to be different is no reason, there is no inherent good in being different. There is just inherent good in being yourself, no matter whether "yourself" is relatively mainstream or completely crazy.
For fun... those simple moments that you will remember forever, without hurting anyone.

How can you act as "yourself" if you mind so much what the other people will think of you ?
Just like that.
I want something? I do it. I think something? I say it. I have two more or less equal possibilities, one of which will just alienate random people? I'll do the normal one. I have two possibilities, one is fun, one will alienate random people? I'll think about it. Probably the fun one.

But screaming in an escalator for the sake of it doesn't sound like me. Not really fun. Just neutral. So why do it?

On the other hand, for example I've got a kind of running gag with a guy, sometimes when we see each other we yell each others names and hug each other. I find that pretty funny, although it alienates lots of people ("Is he gay?", "Is he crazy?"), so I do it, sometimes.
I can't understand, you speak as you are countering what I said, but you are telling the same things I said... maybe I expressed myself in the wrong way ?

The "hug" example you made seems exactly like the elevator joke, same reasons, and almost same reactions...

also my question was rhetoric, because if you mind too much of the others you just DON'T do what you want to do...

in your case, you don't mind, that's why you can act as "yourself"
You sounded to me like you were countering what I said. :-DBecause you answered my rhetorical "why?"

My point was supposed to be that I do stuff which I want to do - the elevator example doesn't seem funny to me. So I don't do it.
 
But when it's 5°C outside and I have to choose between two trousers, short ones and long ones, then I'll choose the long ones although I don't have a problem with the temperature because it's just kind of weird wearing short trousers in winter and I don't have a real reason to choose the short one. You need to find a good balance.
I always wear long ones.  I am one of those people that is usually covered from the neck down, but I make this decision for several reasons, including protection from the sun, insects, scratchy plants, etc.  My overall appearance sometimes intimidates people, but it is a sum of several things, a couple of which I couldn't change (nor would I want to) without a lot of money.  This is better than when I was required to wear a uniform which limited what people could figure out based on my appearance, and as soon as I talk about anything people act like I am the strangest person they have ever met.  Either is fine with me, but I prefer not to deal with the mess.  I would rather be like Nikola Tesla or Howard Hughes than those people no one remembers, not that I want to be known or remembered.

Yes, in puberty some people develop this "I don't care" attitude towards social norms but very few keep it and develop it into something more stable.
This is unfortunate for some of us when we are that age.  I was always a little different, and I got that attitude starting around age 6 or 7, and it slowly grew to the point where I just did my thing most of the time.  When I thought I found others who might be me like me it turned out that most were just "being rebellious".  There was a distinct lack of sincerity with their opinions and decisions.  I was raised in the home of my mother to never "make a scene" or stand out, which was really hard for me.  I am a lot like my father, who I think is only my father because my mother was "being rebellious".  My father and I think a lot alike (not to say that we agree on things), so perhaps their is some genetic element to it.  I have long had the discipline to play by the rules socially, in the sense of going along with the crowd, but I see no reason to do this.  My usual compromise, if speaking my mind and doing as I wish are not acceptable, is to shut my mouth and ignore things, or remove myself from the situation.  I also enjoy learning, so if I look into something and find alternatives that work better for me I do that.  I could get a flashy little car or something else that is more like what people my age are supposed to drive, either due to necessity or social influence, but I like big old luxury cars.  I could get the newest coolest fone or video game console or tablet or whatever, but I don't use facebook and twitter etc. or whatever leads people to want smartphones, most of the games I like are available on older consoles or computers, and I prefer a real computer to a tablet, and don't currently have a need for one that isn't met better by something else.  I could go on like this for days.  Like I said earlier, even if I looked average as soon as I try to talk about anything we get deep into territory that most people aren't familiar with, and I have to explain things.  Am I really that different, or is it that people just want to fit in, or are too lazy to actually think and make decisions?  You had it right, imo:

many people don't seem to have any opinions and just repeat what they've heard.

How can you act as "yourself" if you mind so much what the other people will think of you ?
"Yourself" includes a lot of others.  There are those who have influenced your opinions, those you have interacted with throughout your life, etc.  I really don't see how you can evaluate one person without other people to compare them too.

On the other hand, for example I've got a kind of running gag with a guy, sometimes when we see each other we yell each others names and hug each other. I find that pretty funny, although it alienates lots of people ("Is he gay?", "Is he crazy?"), so I do it, sometimes.
This is a perfect example of what I mean.  To me this is not uncommon.  I have friends and family that do this.  I can't stand loud people in public, or being touched.  They know not to do this with me.  Some of these people do this because this is how they have always interacted with people.  For others it is to add a dramatic touch, and they often go far beyond this.  This type of social interaction is based on others, in this case the people involved are in agreement that it is acceptable.  If people outside of those directly involved have a reaction it is based on their own backgrounds and experiences.

because if you mind too much of the others you just DON'T do what you want to do...
This may not be as true as you think it is.  There are many people that are very different in a professional setting or role than they are at other times.  I know this has been the case for at least a century.  Actually, those who do things such as flamboyant hugs or yelling in an elevator to get a reaction are often doing so BECAUSE of how people will react, and in the recent examples here it is based on doing what is pushing the lines of acceptable by society (others).  This is not being yourself.  Homosexuality in a cultural and social environment where it is not permitted and trying to fulfill your desires, whether physical or emotional, is being yourself.  Not caring what others think in that situation can, in extreme cases, get you locked up or killed.

To make it more clear how being concerned with others, and what they think of you, may be required to be "yourself", consider that your interests, motivations, etc are multifaceted.  Do you present yourself differently in different settings, and forgo certain things that might cause disruptions or problems so that you can pursue other things?  A common example is clothing.  People typically dress specific ways to interact with people in a specific role or situation.  In my experience this is done because an individual seeks to be read a specific way, or because it is what is deemed acceptable by others.  I have had my clothing interpretted incorrectly...when I was in grade 10 I was mistaken for a teacher by some other students for a while, and once we all figured out their confusion they interacted with me in a very different way.  That actually leads to another topic that is very related that I won't go into, but it seems most people, if not all, interact with others based on the roles that each participant is in for that interaction.  If you were to take what others think of you out of that, and treat everyone exactly the same at all times, I think you may find difficulty accomplishing much that is beyond yourself.  If you don't care what others think of you then you cannot better yourself or have much impact beyond your own mind (and others will have an impact there).  This may not be a problem for those that are selfish and self-centered.

For the record, I have a habit of punching those who yell in enclosed spaces from which I cannot easily remove myself, or those who yell and try to touch me.  Children are the exception.  That is just me being myself! ;)
 
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I don't like being special, but instead of wanting to be like everybody else which I tried when I was younger (because it's just not nice being the object of everyones hatred including your own family from the very beginning) and completely failed at that, I'd prefer more people to be a bit more like me, especcially more honest.

The way you described people see each other is perfectly explained by Jiddu Krishnamurti.

People don't see each other at all, they only see certain pictures of people (mostly only "kinds of people"), they made from each other because they are lazy and completely egocentric.

My biggest problem is communication, because 80% of the humans never comprehend what I said and always try to interpret what I may be trying to say between the lines and completely ignore what I actually said, because they would never be so open and fail to fill or read much direct information in a few spoken or written lines. They only listen to a few keywords and try to imagine what I might be saying related to the picture they have of me instead of just listening regardless of who or what they imagine I am.

That's why I'm mute most of the time, only listening to their crap full of lies and half-truths and not taking them seriously very often anymore. It's like a zoo full of very silly apes.

For the record, I have a habit of punching those who yell in enclosed spaces from which I cannot easily remove myself, or those who yell and try to touch me.  Children are the exception.  That is just me being myself! ;)
I have a special hearing ability (which is one of the reasons why I became a maker of musical instruments) and am hurt through it very easily

and the only person allowed to touch me without me feeling raped are girlfriend and best friend (if existent), so I know this urge very well.
 
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Hmmm.  I lost my post.  Some may be happy about that. :p

I don't like being special, but instead of wanting to be like everybody else which I tried when I was younger (because it's just not nice being the object of everyones hatred including your own family from the very beginning) and completely failed at that, I'd prefer more people to be a bit more like me, especcially more honest.  
This all sounds about right.  I didn't try to be like everyone else, I just tried to avoid negative attention (which even "good" things frequently bring), but I think we may be saying the same thing.  All lies and dishonesty usually do is show that you are untrustworthy.

The way you described people see each other is perfectly explained by Jiddu Krishnamurti.
What I said is mostly based on observation and experience from interacting with others. I don't know of this person, so I will look into what they have to say.  If it is anything like what I said it is probably wrong. ;)

My biggest problem is communication, because 80% of the humans never comprehend what I said and always try to interpret what I may be trying to say between the lines and completely ignore what I actually said, because they would never be so open and fail to fill or read much direct information in a few spoken or written lines.
I don't understand.  What are you REALLY trying to say here?  :p   I am particularly bad about this at times.  Possibly due to my upbringing, I sometimes try to read through what is being said to find what is really meant.  In my mother's home it was often pointless to look for keywords, since what was meant was usually indirectly related to what was being said (a simple and more straightforward example is "did you eat yet?" meaning "you need to wash the dishes").  It really sucks when I don't notice myself doing this.  Also, not sure if it is related, but sometimes I do words no good...

I am quiet in public because I don't want to deal with the outcome, and I usually get as much information by just watching and listening.  I am very different with people I am comfortable with.  I had a short example of how I recently had someone disregard or misunderstand what I was saying, instead labeling me a "conspiracy theorist", and what I said is widely known.  We can discuss that elsewhere if anyone really cares, but it was an example of the outcome of speaking I try to avoid.

It's like a zoo full of very silly apes.
This is pretty much exactly what it is.  Too bad they don't accept what they are, and think they are somehow different or better than other apes/primates/mammals.  I have probably learned more about human interaction and behaviour by watching other primates and animals than from any other source.

For the record, I have a habit of punching those who yell in enclosed spaces from which I cannot easily remove myself, or those who yell and try to touch me.  Children are the exception.  That is just me being myself! ;)
I have a special hearing ability (which is one of the reasons why I became a maker of musical instruments) and am hurt through it very easily

and the only person allowed to touch me without me feeling raped are girlfriend and best friend (if existent), so I know this urge very well.
I don't mind loud things sometimes, I just don't like loudness in my vicinity without my permission.  Unless I feel someone is touching me to help me I usually consider it a potential threat.  I am not particularly physically affectionate, which has made some who are unhappy.  Just don't be a jerk.  If you are, expect consequences.
 
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Klumpen, there is a subtelty and (to you) what seems like ambiguity to how most people interpret, interact and communicate with each other that you are not eqiupped to understand. While you may be exhasperated with 80% of people "reading between the lines" and trying to add an extra dimension of meaning to your words, you should consider that such people are actually purposefully supplying that meaning and context when they communicate with each other. In any interaction there is a large body of meaning that is being purposefully conveyed in a non-verbal manner. From what I understand (I have not read the entire thread, merely skimmed it) you are autistic.Unfortunately for you, most people are not autistic and they are equally exhasperated that you are quite incapable of picking up sentiments that are not explicitly stated in the words used.

Keep in mind that you may say something, that if interpreted purely verbally may mean one thing then it could be completely inverted in connotation and meaning via factors you are unaware of and are not capable of purposefully affecting in a manner consistent with what you actually mean. If you consider the idea that sarcasm is hard to convey in pure text and extrapolate that idea beyond obvious inversion to every single communication you have ever made; then you have an idea of the scope of the possibility of misunderstanding.

I hope this is not offensive and I'm not saying that your communication problems (with 80% of people by your own admission, which is a majority) is simply you being unable to understand the subtleties of others, more that once both sides are aware of the scope of each others understanding that patience and considered clarity is required on both sides.
 
I know this already, what I meant is, that an increasing number of people does neither look at the actual words spoken, nor even really at non-verbal communication. They don't listen at all and are just interrupting all the time and imagining what the person might be trying to say related to the virtual image the average homo sapiens has in his head of this "type" of person (mostly completely wrong and too fast categorized, not only regarding Aspies but average people too). I know that normal people are always connecting with some herd or another and are actually trying to serve some stereotype subconsciously, but the widely spread complete lack of belief that some are not like this is just horrible and is rendering communication more or less impossible for me, since it's hard enough to mimic nonverbal communication anyway, I don't even get the time to try to communicate in their quite silly way.

Humans that are able to listen have become a rarity.
 
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I know this already, what I meant is, that an increasing number of people does neither look at the actual words spoken, nor even really at non-verbal communication. They don't listen at all and are just interrupting all the time and imagining what the person might be trying to say related to the virtual image the average homo sapiens has in his head of this "type" of person (mostly completely wrong and too fast categorized, not only regarding Aspies but average people too). I know that normal people are always connecting with some herd or another and are actually trying to serve some stereotype subconsciously, but the widely spread complete lack of belief that some are not like this is just horrible and is rendering communication more or less impossible for me, since it's hard enough to mimic nonverbal communication anyway, I don't even get the time to try to communicate in their quite silly way.

Humans that are able to listen have become a rarity.
 Ah well you see there's the thing, you don't know it already. You may be aware of it, but you do not understand it. The problem is not other people, it's you. Perhaps you should consider than in order to accurately communicate with you most people have to limit their scope, where if you were to communicate with them you would have to expand your scope to a point you're incapable of doing so, because you have a neurological condition. You are not special or better than this majority of people you ironically pigeonhole and stereotype. You infact fit the same tired "autistic person with a high opinion of themselves who thinks they're special" stereotype without even realising it. There is nothing 'silly' or as you try and categorise it, 'primative' about how other people communicate with each other.

You are not an idiot savant with some sort of amazing insight into the human condition. You're exactly the same as anyone else except you have to work a little harder to understand others and thats not their failing its your own.
 
There is nothing 'silly' or as you try and categorise it, 'primative' about how other people communicate with each other.
I think you may be wrong.  There is much that is very silly and primitive about human communication and interaction. 

That doesn't mean that communication and interaction, or the silly and primitive properties, are bad.
 
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 Ah well you see there's the thing, you don't know it already. You may be aware of it, but you do not understand it. The problem is not other people, it's you. Perhaps you should consider than in order to accurately communicate with you most people have to limit their scope, where if you were to communicate with them you would have to expand your scope to a point you're incapable of doing so, because you have a neurological condition. You are not special or better than this majority of people you ironically pigeonhole and stereotype. You infact fit the same tired "autistic person with a high opinion of themselves who thinks they're special" stereotype without even realising it. There is nothing 'silly' or as you try and categorise it, 'primative' about how other people communicate with each other.

You are not an idiot savant with some sort of amazing insight into the human condition. You're exactly the same as anyone else except you have to work a little harder to understand others and thats not their failing its your own.
And that's were you're wrong because you just believe what you've been told without trying to see it from every perspective.

I understand common communication by now via logical means, it's complicated but there are obvious patterns behind it. It just takes me a while to translate everything and I usually don't get the time.

Hypersensitive persons mostly can read aspies like open books (including me), because there IS nonverbal communication, it's just extremely subtle and not as important as the precise use of words, so this "expansion" can be seen as needed in the opposite direction too while we have to try to think and communicate in ways that were needed when speech wasn't as elaborate as today, hence the feeling of it being primative as you've put it so nicely, but contrary to normal people, we usually try to tune our wavelenght a bit to others in order to be understood a little better but this can not be said in the opposite direction in most cases, because of people like you who think we are somewhat retarded while we are only different.

Put an average person in a circle of usually highly intelligent aspies and guess who will be seen as retarded, the same would apply to a human in a tribe of apes, the outsider is always seen as the somewhat retarded one even if he is partly accepted, who are you to judge which one is the really retarded one?

Even Daniel Tammett was seen as retarded when he was younger, imagine that!
 
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PS: I'm glad, that there are always exceptions. My boss (and my former boss) have taken their time trying to understand me and by now ironically think I'm in a way more social than anybody else they know, just in an entirely different way.

Guess who people turn to when they need someone who is able to listen?

The initial motivation was of course given, because I'm extremely efficient at my job and in secret started solving most problems my own way and being way faster and more precise than with the methods they have shown me, by now my boss is relying on this and usually asks how I'd do it, his strenghts are his experience in the field and dealing with customers and other business contacts so it's a mutual profit in most ways. Since I'm making progress with my own products, a few weeks ago he asked me if I plan to stay for the next 1-2 years, because if not he would have closed down the workshop due to large debts it has due to severe miscalulation and a bit sloppy work in the last years made by his former business partner. He said without me he'd never be able to write black numbers again and I'm faster and more reliable than all the other workers we had and could reactivate although they have proper education in the field which I didn't even get, so he'd shut it down without me. I cannot be this retarded.

a human in a tribe of apes
:huh:  Isn't that where they usually hang out, even if not in person?
You little meanie. ;)
 
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 Ah well you see there's the thing, you don't know it already. You may be aware of it, but you do not understand it. The problem is not other people, it's you. Perhaps you should consider than in order to accurately communicate with you most people have to limit their scope, where if you were to communicate with them you would have to expand your scope to a point you're incapable of doing so, because you have a neurological condition. You are not special or better than this majority of people you ironically pigeonhole and stereotype. You infact fit the same tired "autistic person with a high opinion of themselves who thinks they're special" stereotype without even realising it. There is nothing 'silly' or as you try and categorise it, 'primative' about how other people communicate with each other.

You are not an idiot savant with some sort of amazing insight into the human condition. You're exactly the same as anyone else except you have to work a little harder to understand others and thats not their failing its your own.
And that's were you're wrong because you just believe what you've been told without trying to see it from every perspective.

I understand common communication by now via logical means, it's complicated but there are obvious patterns behind it. It just takes me a while to translate everything and I usually don't get the time.

Hypersensitive persons mostly can read aspies like open books (including me), because there IS nonverbal communication, it's just extremely subtle and not as important as the precise use of words, so this "expansion" can be seen as needed in the opposite direction too while we have to try to think and communicate in ways that were needed when speech wasn't as elaborate as today, hence the feeling of it being primative as you've put it so nicely, but contrary to normal people, we usually try to tune our wavelenght a bit to others in order to be understood a little better but this can not be said in the opposite direction in most cases, because of people like you who think we are somewhat retarded while we are only different.

Put an average person in a circle of usually highly intelligent aspies and guess who will be seen as retarded, the same would apply to a human in a tribe of apes, the outsider is always seen as the somewhat retarded one even if he is partly accepted, who are you to judge which one is the really retarded one?

Even Daniel Tammett was seen as retarded when he was younger, imagine that!
Actually, I'm not wrong. You are. You're the one with the deficiency here. Ever heard of Temple Grandin? Your behaviour is that of an animal, tiresome and predictable. You are not special, clever or interesting. You are broken.
 
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No arguments left, so let's just attack, great.

He probably never heard of Tammett anyway and never read current stuff about autism research in Cambridge etc.. obviously just trolling in this thread.

Look for a psychotherapist, dude.
 
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No arguments left, so let's just attack, great.

He probably never heard of Tammett anyway and never read current stuff about autism research in Cambridge etc.. obviously just trolling in this thread.

Look for a psychotherapist, dude.
You have done practically nothing in this thread other than complain about the behaviour of others and attempt to position yourself as 'better' than everyone else. 'Zombie', 'apes' and so on are terms you've typically used. It's a pretty clear argument when I tell you that others are not the problem; it's you.
 
Now he's telling I'm the only one who thinks, that there is a lot entirely wrong with the human world, fascinating!


He probably thinks I (unlike others) haven't got the right to say this because I'm not really part of his average master race, is there a word for this kind of "neuroracism"?


See, I'm even able to make implications just like him although I'm so horribly retarded. ;-)


So much for Lora's caring corner, I've got no reason to let some random coward attack me out of the blue, there's too much wonderful stuff to learn and see elsewhere.
 
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Right, this is the Caring Corner. This is not a place to attack one another or anyone else. This is a place for people to share and care, and yes, to vent..but not at the expense of one another. For those who think otherwise; please kindly take it to PM or elsewhere. Otherwise, let's all try and be kind :) . There's enough crud in the world already.


As for the kind comment about those with autism being "broken" etc..I guess I'm broken too then, seeing as I have autism. I'd ask for glue, but I'm rather content with who I am, thank you :p
 
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