The Absolute State of Linux

[Silent-Hunter]

An update to the Copyleft Guide addressed this issue, and I've not read it yet but LWN's coverage of it suggests it's not going to happen.

Well thank the gods for that!

 

[second exodous]

 

[Citizen_Lurker]

https://www.contributor-covenant.org/adopters

And nothing bad happened to those projects so far. Why all the panic?

Also, the code of conduct that is posted on kernel.org doesn't even say anything about feminism, people of colour, etc.

 

[levi]

Linus has talked to the BBC and ends by saying he 'probably shouldn't talk to journalists'

Edit: Unsurprisingly, he seems to be mainly blaming the standard of discourse on twitter. I can agree with him that when you see the standard of language and ideas used by one side in particular, it's such an anathema to my european roots, that I feel I have to stand with the other guys sometimes.

 

[Citizen_Lurker]

Linus has talked to the BBC and ends by saying he 'probably shouldn't talk to journalists'

Brilliant! But, seeing that in the interview, Linus called some people racist, and also "lowlife scum", does that automatically make him, drumroll, an SJW?

 

[second exodous]

Brilliant! But, seeing that in the interview, Linus called some people racist, and also "lowlife scum", does that automatically make him, drumroll, an SJW?

Not really, everyone agrees there are a lot of low life scum. If you take what he said into context he doesn't like SJWs either, he still feels others can be too politically correct.

It is one thing not being racist or other 'ists' and even campaigning against hate, it is another to just find bigotry in absolutely everything and dig in peoples past and find one message on the internet or something they said in the past that can be taken out of context and completely ruin peoples lives. Or in this case get someone banned from contributing to the kernel.

He gave into pressure from the outside, if you are not in tow with the SJW rhetoric then you are a Nazi and can get your head bashed in with a bike lock.

I really think the coc should have a clause no digging up peoples past and maybe a vote from the developers before someone is outright banned. The way it stands now there are a lot of loop holes to just ban people you don't like. No matter what you say and no matter what you do it can be twisted into making you look like what an SJW will call a Nazi.

There is a distinction, there are those that fight for social justice and then there are those that you can attach the word 'warrior' to them indicating they only want to destroy to virtual signal to their buddies how active they are.

 

[Binky]

How does a CoC differ from a conventional set of rules? Plenty of organisations have had, and still have, imprecise sets of rules for members/participants. I'd even argue that it's impossible for a rulebook that applies to human interaction to be otherwise. People and language are too complicated to be governed by mechanical judges.

The problem, surely, is with the humans who apply the rules - especially those who's zeal for a cause is unaffected by its (lack of) severity.

 

[ZXDunny]

I would advocate a cautious "wait and see" attitude to this one. Sure, the CoC has been signed off on, it's pretty much part of the rules now. If indeed kernel contributors are faceless names behind their commits, then there is no harm done and things can continue as they have been doing. If things start happening - like counting up the number of patches accepted from minorities with the aim to "achieve parity" or that patches are accepted based on minority status rather than relevance and competency then that is the time for the contributors to start pulling their code out.

As it stands right now, any mount of blue-haired activists can confront the Linux Foundation and ask "Do you follow a code of conduct that ensures that minorities are given an adequate representation etc etc?" and the Linux Foundation can say "Yeah, we do, take a look" which will go some way to getting them off their backs.

Not that that ever actually works, mind.

 

[pmprog]

Not watched it yet, but YouTuber Law has covered it...

 

[Yoyobuae]

Oh boy...

I participate a lot in a different community which is having similar issues but with one slight difference: the left is majority.

Still the parallels here and there are just uncanny. It's almost like a copy&paste of the same discussions with a some of the subjects changed.

But why does this keep happening? It's just human nature, it's tribal behavior. Things like referring to the other side in derrogatory manner, widely applying stereotypes, demonizing the other side, etc. It's a VERY slippery slope to tread.

It's like the perfect storm, and the conditions are just right for it to happen. Unluckily it doesn't just go away all that easily either.

 

[levi]

Meanwhile in the real world, patches are still coming in and stable kernels keep getting released.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Meanwhile in the real world, patches are still coming in and stable kernels keep getting released.

That's probably the best possible outcome. Just focus on what matters and not to get dragged into the whole "US vs THEM" attitude.

 

[ZXDunny]

I have to admit, it does sound like a lot of activist nutjob types have gotten themselves riled up, and a lot of right-wing nutjobs have risen up to meet them. In the middle is the Linux Foundation just trying to do the right thing, whatever that is. I wish them luck, I really do.

 

[canseco]

The news should be "2 new versions of the stable kernel released without Linus Torvalds".

At least for now, the "Hit by a Bus" theory is a myth,

 

[levi]

There's been two new versions of the latest 4.18 stable kernel, but also two for 4.14, two for 4.9, one for 4.4 and one for 3.18. I count that to be rather more than two in total.

Edit: And apparently three more are out today, and before I posted that message too. I was out-of-date. It's one more for 4.18, 4.14 and 4.9

 

[ZXDunny]

Yes, it would seem that the furore over this whole issue has been blown up to epic proportions by the kinds of people that the CoC is designed to root out.

 

[shaddim]

How does a CoC differ from a conventional set of rules?

Let me try. Conventional approach in net cultures and etiquette between people was the approach which was propagandized by Martin Luther King: "color blindness". Basically, we should put no emphasis on your race, sex, gender etc and treat anyone as human. And in case of hacker/open source/linux culture, respect should given on contributions only, meritocracy. I would argue this worked very, very well.

Now, the culture has changed. Post-Modernism, deeply infected by deconstructivism (which I think is the core), believes that there is no moral framework and there is not one even possible, everything is zero-sum power game, anything is arbitrarily socially constructed. Every organization, classification, structure, every hierarchy is only an expression of power (not merit or competence) and therefore inherent unfair. Therefore, they believe unbiased treatment, solidarity across group borders, fair actions based on moral codes are impossible. Therefore they don't believe that the "color blind" approach is working at all. They believe in enforced (e.g. with CoCs) re-distribution of power and resources by explicitly laying out who has more power over whom ("intersectionality", expressed in the CoC by explicitely naming race, gender etc) and then leveling/flipping/crushing these structures.

My problem and afraidness with this is: this is inherently non-solidarity, assuming the worst in your fellow beings and leading ultimately to tribalism, potentially damaging our society.
[doublepost=1538815040,1538814369][/doublepost]

Yes, it would seem that the furore over this whole issue has been blown up to epic proportions by the kinds of people that the CoC is designed to root out.

It is quite clear why this raises turmoil. Putting anyone in visible classes, focussing the society on groups, leads to tribalism. The opposite, the"colorblind" approach, which devalues the focus on the groups a human belongs to but put the focus on the individual was the right approach which brought the western society forward.

 

[ZXDunny]

Given recent outbreaks of nazism, intolerance generally, sexual harassment (and even rape) in our western culture do you not think that it's actually prudent to "assume the worst in your fellow beings"?

And as has been pointed out very clearly so far - the CoC is in place, and Linux updates are flowing as freely as before. By all means take whatever action you personally can when things actually do go down the shitter, but it seems that the only people who want to derail this at this point are the very cockwombles that are going to be hurt most by the CoC.

 

[shaddim]

Given recent outbreaks of nazism, intolerance generally, sexual harassment (and even rape) in our western culture

seriously? There is no outbreak of intolerance, nazism, sexism, rape (culture? this ridicoulus) in western culture. There is only a mass hysteria pretending with big force that these things are real and worse than ever. Which is totally not true: never we were in a more free, safe and egalitarian society.

EDIT: fomer British MP Ann Widdecombe on whiney westerners who don't know what they have
A serious outbreak of that things you speak about was the rise of the murdering, slave taking ISIS caliphate in Syria - only related to western culture in the way that it wants to destroy the western culture. Western culture is the literal opposite.

 

[ible]

do you have numbers on how exactly equal we all are? it would still seem that not many women/minorities are in top roles at companies...