The Absolute State of Linux

Discussion in 'Offtopic Discussions' started by klapse, Sep 24, 2018.

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  1. klapse

    klapse Central Scrutinizer

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    The Absolute State of Linux

    it's time to pick sides, gentlemen.
     
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  2. Klumpen

    Klumpen Run away! Run away!

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    Either give me that in text form or make a presentation, but watching a guy talking in front of a shaky camera for 20:41 minutes? No way.
    And please structure it properly, no aimless rambling, kthxbye.
     
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  3. second exodous

    second exodous Advanced Member

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    Eh, it is a video you play in the background.

    But yeah, I agree with what he is saying. It is funny how the girl that wrote the code of conduct made a whole list of things to be inclusive on but one thing she was sure to leave out was political affiliation. It is to get in and kick out whoever she doesn't agree with politically. So now politics have taken over movies, tv, video games, comic books, social media, youtube, and now Linux. As soon as these are implemented these SJWs will find out exactly who these contributors are and if they believe ANYTHING they don't agree with they'll be kicked out. SJW are FAR FAR left, like communist, so if you aren't a communist you can't contribute to the Linux kernel. Even if what they believe will never ever come up in kernel development they will still be kicked out. Like if they post on one of their social media accounts they got something to eat at Chick-fil-A they're out. If the the SJWs find out any of the contributors ate there 10 years ago they're out.

    These codes of conduct are not to improve the project, Linus was a tyrant and Linux progressed, what happened there didn't affect it at all. This is just to take over. Look at what they did to comics, sure they were dying before but now they are only published to push political agenda to the hundreds of people that buy their comics worldwide.

    I really don't think SJWs use linux, to use Linux you really can't devote 99.9% of your life to hating everything, some of that energy needs to be devoted to learning about technology. These people don't have PCs and use iphones because it is trendy. They don't need to be policing what they don't understand.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  4. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    I could only watch 2 minutes of that.

    1. I hate his facial hair
    2. Why is he walking around a park?
     
  5. AnimatedFreak

    AnimatedFreak Very Active Member

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    I'm not completely against the idea of having a code of conduct. Some of the things Linus has said over the years are pretty bad. Now that being said the code of conduct they picked is AWFUL. It's written by a really bigoted person and it's designed vaguely on purpose to allow for easy banning of people who don't toe the line. I think that if the Linux kernal should've adopted a code of conduct it should've the Debian code of conduct. It's short, simple, concrete and the best part of it is
    "Assume good faith"
    I think that is really important in order to not create a hostile environment and don't have to walk on egg shells
    Oh well, at least it isn't as bad as the code of conduct that FreeBSD picked.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  6. FBnil

    FBnil ℎ ℎ ’ ℎ .

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    I hope it turns out to be nothing, and not a political take-over.
    We always have gnu/BSD and http://www.minix3.org/ (hey, it's Dutch)



    Let's see, should I switch OS?

    Let's see, no MacOS:
    Apple Releases macOS Mojave Featuring Dark Mode and Other Features; Earlier Today a Security Researcher Published 0Day Bypass For a Privacy Bug in the new OS

    Let's see, no Windows:
    Despite Outrage From Users, Microsoft Continues To Install Bloatware Applications Onto Every Windows 10 PC

    ChromeOS... nope:
    Google Secretly Logs Users Into Chrome Whenever They Log Into a Google Site

    AIX: Ah, need Power 8 hardware and a subscription.

    HPUX: Ah, need Itanium and some firmware... also subscription.

    Yeah, there are a few places to go, but they are rounding us up... I vote for the least worst OS...
     
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  7. Grench

    Grench Forum Addict!

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    I did not watch the video. Based on the comments, though, it sounds like they might be missing the whole point of Open Source wherin there isn't anyone determining who can or cannot be included.

    This open source freely distributed thing that I/we/they built is being used by people who do not share my/ours/their world view. Cheers to that! Please share bug reports and code improvements. Next?
     
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  8. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    I see no reason to expect Linus to go away for too long, he'll be back I reckon. Dunno how long he'll stick around if the environment doesn't get less nasty though.

    I dunno, I always enjoyed reading Linus's outbursts, although it's fair to say I've never been on the receiving end of one. If anything they seemed to be becoming less common these days, or perhaps less reported on than they used to be. And they usually self-explained how the target had misbehaved in continuing to submit bad code. I find Linus to have been accepting of pretty much everything other than bad code (by his own definition, to be fair).
     
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  9. PCXT

    PCXT Very Active Member

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    I'm not sure are these SJWs so far to the left of political scene. They are not sponsored by a communist country from abroad, nor have a connections with a single orthodox left-wing party, they are not operating for the profits of left-wing groups too. But they are sponsored by companies, and companies have many profits of these groups:
    First, it allows to softly and covertly limit promotions, control hierarchy and competences, successfully nullifying any employee protection laws.
    Next, if it is needed to get rid of someone, just use false accusations and mob mentality, or imagine hard that they are from this bad group.
    Additionally, SJW is a social engineering to direct hate in people in the order of capitalism, not socialism or communism. SJW groups direct their hate towards people who are not buying stuff from companies (or maybe even sponsors) and they should, simultaneously protecting groups who just cannot be targets for this new "torch and fork" marketing used when all other need creation methods slowly decrease in efficiency.
    Let's look at the example. It is obvious that ugly people are, as in modern newspeak, "underprivileged" and it was this way all time. Are these SJWs fighting for their rights? No! According to this "social justice", it is even OK to bully ugly people. The motivation, sometimes written directly, sometimes not, is that companies may earn money by making ugly people buy more (not working) cosmetics or surgeries. This is a need creation using a new method, propagated by SJW.
    Now imagine similar thing with other marketing targets, let's say using the far-right racism in its worst to sell e.g. skin change cosmetics. No way for this to work.
    And it looks like that's how it works.

    What will happen with Linux? Well, in 1950s in eastern block countries, there were numerous examples of incompetent factory workers who were never instructed how to use elementary tools by their colleagues, and they definitely should have been instructed. The reason was simple - experienced workers were thinking that this person, being hired without any experience, is an undercover inspection agent and it's better not to do anything suspicious, even while the new worker shown obvious signs of incompetency. And the "inspector" usually was a relative quickly hired to e.g. keep him from military service. Now, a real example, such events successfully "cleaned" one manufacturing plant of lathe operators in workshop in which 4 people were hired and, after some personnel moving, there were no people in the workshop who could use a lathe.

    P.S. And for tinfoil hats, again: No, not a conspiracy, but optimization.
     
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  10. JDTAY

    JDTAY Half Pepperoni, All Cheese

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    Wow, this board is more anti-justice than I thought.

    I feel almost like I should steelman social justice at this point, but I'm not smart enough to steelman things.

    I will say that accountability in general doesn't feel right to me. Especially because the sentence is always life-long...
     
  11. second exodous

    second exodous Advanced Member

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    Hmm, contributes are revolting. They should, if there is a code of conduct it should be collectively written by them, not a politically charged SJW.

    Since the kernel is gpl v2 each contributor's code is owned by them and they can retract it, effectively killing the Linux kernel.

    I really think some line should be put in the coc that states maintainers can only be banned for what is said/done within the kernel development, no one should look up peoples past and find out something like one of the maintainers likes BDSM and ban them. Something like that has happened before.

    It looks like the largest contributor threatening to pull code is Eric S Raymond although a few are. No one seems happy that this was thrust upon them. It just seems like a hostel takeover to have a third party write how can and can't be a Linux developer.

    Yes, this is what it should be, banned for bad code not what kind of person they are outside of the mailing lists.
     
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  12. Silent-Hunter

    Silent-Hunter Advanced Member

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    Can the kernel be forked?
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 25, 2018 ---
    Also, it sounds like this was adopted because Linus was verbally abusing people, so it might not be an SJW thing.
     
  13. second exodous

    second exodous Advanced Member

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    I don't think Linux can be forked because it is so large and everyone that contributed would have to be alright with it, but Stallman has always wanted to replace it.

    Linus verbally abusing people is only a problem because he's getting older, it doesn't sound like this was his decision. He just said he himself needs to change. Him leaving like this was a way in to push a coc. that can be used to political ends. The Linux kernel is huge, like really big, and any virtue signaling done there the world will hear about.

    This just feels like the kernal is being made into another place to make an example of 'wrong think'. The Linux kernel should be immune to this since it is a collaboration over the internet. If someone likes spanking a prostitute on their own time, voting for Trump, or criticizing someone online it shouldn't be grounds to ban them.
     
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  14. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Everyone who has contributed to the kernel has said (maybe not in so many words all of the time, I guess) that they're happy to license it as GPLv2 or 2+. That means you can fork it, but you must abide by the rules set out in that license, or risk being sued by the EFF and probably others.

    What's tricker is forking the community. You can post your fork wherever you like, but that doesn't mean anyone's going to send you any patches automatically. The community could at this point spontaneously cleave itself, and they'd then need a fork to work on, but that's the community splitting first and the fork following, not the other way round.
     
  15. ible

    ible Advanced Guard Tower

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    much ado about nothing? i guess that's what we get with the community behind (against) systemd, github, etc.
     
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  16. Klumpen

    Klumpen Run away! Run away!

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    So, who decides about this kind of code of conduct?
    All this seems extremely authoritarian to me, was there a voting with every contributor getting a vote?
     
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  17. second exodous

    second exodous Advanced Member

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    No, that is why it feels like a hostel takeover. The media is spinning it like it is just a bunch of people with tin foil hats but the maintainers, even the top ones, didn't get a say on the code of conduct.

    I really hope this doesn't kill Linux. I really don't think any of the maintainers are onboard with the code of conduct though. With Linus gone there isn't one person who can reject it but if enough contributors ban together then it will be re-written or just thrown out. Linux has gone this long without a code of conduct, I don't see why they need it. Just the section on inclusiveness is weird, no one has ever been racist or homophobic or whatever. No one cares, it is just a bunch of people writing code.

    The only thing to worry about are the companies contributing, they all would be on board with this and will force their employees that are doing the actual coding to be one board with this.
     
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  18. Klumpen

    Klumpen Run away! Run away!

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    How did this even happen? I mean, who enforced it and why are people accepting it and not just ignoring it as an hoax if there wasn't even a vote?
    I mean, we all know that this modern StaSi-like SJW thing is the purest form of authoritarianism, but that only works if other people don't simply ignore that made up CoC as the bullshit it is.

    Linux always was about freedom and community, what happened here is the exact opposite, so how/why is it even valid?
     
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  19. pmprog

    pmprog Advanced Member

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    Apparently Kernel devs can repeal their code. If that's true, a simple fork wouldn't be that simple
     
  20. Silent-Hunter

    Silent-Hunter Advanced Member

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    What does this mean for the Pyra? With it's proprietary drivers, doesn't it HAVE to use Linux kernel?
     
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