Some personal stuff - and prototypes building!

Grench

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You're right, thanks :) Yeah, there's indeed space. There's nothing in the way :D
It looks like they are proposing adding a pin to the inside/backside of the shoulder buttons for a spring to ride on. The screw is just an easy way to make a test platform for that pin (and be able to adjust the depth).

Suggestion to make the assembly easier - have the end of that pin closest to the shoulder button larger in diameter so that the spring holds around the base of the pin. Not a hard attachment, but it should help the spring stay put while the case is assembled.

Having a spring there should really help button feel & return action. It is a great idea! Though we'll likely end up with a 40 page thread over what the spring should be made out of, how many twists it should have, the gauge of the wire and whether the same spring should be used for all of them and ...

So, four springs then, one for each shoulder button? All the same length (I hope)?
 

Grench

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Only two, it can't be done for the top shoulder buttons.
Springs do not have to be round cylinders. How about a flat piece of thin spring steel folded into a U shape?
(There are other form factors too - torsion bars, etc... but those get more complex)

Of course I do not have a set of case plastics to be able to make such recommendations from - so you and the case company are going to have a lot better insights into what can be done. But, what kind of space (if any) are we talking about for the top shoulder buttons?
 

ClockworkCoder

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Springs do not have to be round cylinders. How about a flat piece of thin spring steel folded into a U shape
That sounds like a little too much added complexity than a simple spring to me. If anything if something like that works well, it could be something we could retrofit later... (yes, I'm just a little impatient :p)
 

Grench

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That sounds like a little too much added complexity than a simple spring to me. If anything if something like that works well, it could be something we could retrofit later... (yes, I'm just a little impatient :p)
If I am visualizing the scenario right...

The bottom shoulder buttons have the luxury of a deep well to sit over/in where a cylinder spring can simply push the plastic bit back outward. Behind the button is a convenient cavity in the plastic that can be used for this. Bonus. If a peg is created for the back side of the shoulder button itself, a coil spring can ride on this. Solved.

The top shoulder buttons, though, only have the relatively weak spring-back from the switch itself. Behind them is the top side of the mainboard - there isn't anything nearby to seat a spring against - no cavity, just board. I wish I had a set of these plastics or a rotatable model of the upper shoulder button - that would help me eliminate bad ideas as they pop up. But as I don't have those, a few of those likely bad ideas...

1. Motherboard mounted spring guide. Next to the top shoulder button switch is there room to mount a 'horn' to the board. Essentially a 90* hook of just large enough to be sturdy wire with one end pointed toward the switch activator pad to act as the spring guide. Any nearby through-hole ground points?

2. Silicone booger. There is a defined cavity/space/shape to where that upper switch lives/exists. Spray some cooking oil on the parts (for release) then fill the cavity with silicone. Let it set. Pull it apart then trim op the booger so that it fits the space properly - and is a mold-friendly taper. Test. Should be a bit squishy yet reflex/spring back. If it is too firm, cut a bit out of the sides so it squishes easier.

3. Levered flat spring. The cavity where the bottom shoulder springs will get located may be able to be the 'firm place to stand' to move/push on the upper spring by using flat thin spring steel. The easiest place to get small pieces of this stuff is to -very carefully- disassemble a badge retractor. The coil of flat steel inside is VERY sharp and seems to move of it's own accord in a finger-slicing eye-blinding and pain inducing spiral of death. Wear gloves & goggles if you take one apart. But - if that material is anchored in the cavity - it might be thin enough to run through between the board & the switch to apply back-pressure on the switch.

All likely bad ideas, but maybe they could help find a good idea?
 

levi

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You're right, thanks :) Yeah, there's indeed space. There's nothing in the way :D
And this doesn't foul the PCB or the shoulder switch? Interesting. On almost all of the joypads I've taken apart it's been done the same way it was done on the Pandora, just using the flex in the switch to accomodate the keycap movement, maybe with a small bit of foam in place, and I remember getting bad finger cramps from the gamecube's springed analogue pots, but that has a lot to do with the geometry of the pad as I've never had problems with the xbox or dreamcast equivalents.
 

lukey

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Hmm wasn't the Problem with the Shoulder Buttons that the PCB isn't aligned properly? Also the Switches on the PCB should act like springs already?
 

Neelix

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Playing devils advocate for the moment on the springs, wouldn't that that effectively give the buttons a second click point that doesn't actually do anything? (i.e. when the plastic button hits the top of the switch, potentially creating the illusion that the switch has already been pressed)

-Neelix
 

matzesu

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Its just a try to improve the Design, and as they have the Moulds and can make Cases realitivly cheap its not that issue for the Pyra Projekt when they hack around to improve the Cases,
Also the MP will take 2 Weeks for the Cases, so if they use some days to improve the Shoulderbuttons, this would be a big issue as the PCB needs far more time..

If these Springs work for the whole time of the Pyra Live, or whe can easely change the Springs if the fail, im quite da cord whit this solution..

Foam Pads work, no question, but somethimes the tend to move, so i had to open my Pandora multiple times to fix the Shoulderbuttons..
 

Bibifuret

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Hello, that sounds great...
Can you guys explain me the next steps ?
Prototype, mass production, deliverys...
Just for have an idea...
 

DougOnEarth

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Sorry to ask this but I am one of those folks who has been waiting since the days of the Pandora:)

So here it is, when can we expect a production version of the Pyra to hit the market?

From the looks of this thread, it looks like June maybe?
 

Xcl4m4t10n

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Sorry to ask this but I am one of those folks who has been waiting since the days of the Pandora:)

So here it is, when can we expect a production version of the Pyra to hit the market?

From the looks of this thread, it looks like June maybe?
I would say October.
 

matzesu

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I don’t like this pessimism,
Whe know that whe don’t know when the Pyra is Ready, but EvilDragon is currently building Prototypes, they go to Devs, and the get the response if everything is allright,
The 6 Weeks till the MP of the boards is done and maybe 2 Weeks for Assembly and shipping..
this are 2 Months so i would say June..
 
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