Re: A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)


hedwards

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Oct 7, 2008
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872
If someone claims that he is teaching English, I expect that he DOES NOT EVER write like this, ever.
A bad example is the worst case in learning languages and one of the reasons,


why my English is not as good as it should be after all those years.


I am glad that nobody here writes like Mervyn Peake (although I love Gormenghast), but this language is going down.
 
So if I understand correctly, what you are saying is that all the mistakes you made are a direct result of the mistakes that people posting on forums have made in the past? Further, you claim that if other people just took the time to ensure they didn't make these mistakes then the language would improve, but you yourself are not expected to be held to this standard for some reason?


Are we only holding the standards of perfection only to someone who claims to teach English? I ask because you have previously complained about others who have made minor mistakes in the past (none of which claimed to be teachers) and I just want to make sure you're being consistent. Wouldn't want to wrongfully point out the hypocrisy of your opinion after all.
Thank you, that's a large part of the point. I write in an informal way, because this is a forum, life is way too short to obsess about minor grammatical mistakes when they don't matter.
 

Klumpen

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So if I understand correctly, what you are saying is that all the mistakes you made are a direct result of the mistakes that people posting on forums have made in the past?
No, they are a direct result of the incompetent and lazy English teachers we had in school, but of course the casual language in forums does its part and if there are teachers involved, then I am just disappointed.

If I am reading grammar stuff today, then I am really confused, because you see it wrong everywhere nowadays.

I do not use this language every day and have to rely on others regarding what may be right, because I have got a lot of other stuff on my mind.

At least people usually understand me, but I just wanted to use this topic to explain how hard it is to get it right one single time, if you are surrounded by mistakes from native speakers or even teachers.

The problem with capital letters may get worse, because of all the people that are not using them anymore at all.

This should be an enormous problem for foreign guys trying to learn my first language which has a bit more of these.

I am so happy that there is a "shift key" on the left shoulder button of the Pandora.

PS: Thanks for the corrections.

You do not need to think that I wanted to start a rant. This forum actually has a higher standard than many others.
 
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elwing

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Of course, not everyone is good at grammar, especially in an other language, some errors are normal. What I can't stand is when people don't even bother reading what they wrote before posting... loosing all reader's time while not even taking a tiny moment to check spelling and grammar is really disrespectful...
 
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hedwards

Active Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
872
So if I understand correctly, what you are saying is that all the mistakes you made are a direct result of the mistakes that people posting on forums have made in the past?
No, they are a direct result of the incompetent and lazy English teachers we had in school, but of course the casual language in forums does its part and if there are teachers involved, then I am just disappointed.

If I am reading grammar stuff today, then I am really confused, because you see it wrong everywhere nowadays.

I do not use this language every day and have to rely on others regarding what may be right, because I have got a lot of other stuff on my mind.

At least people usually understand me, but I just wanted to use this topic to explain how hard it is to get it right one single time, if you are surrounded by mistakes from native speakers or even teachers.

The problem with capital letters may get worse, because of all the people that are not using them anymore at all.

This should be an enormous problem for foreign guys trying to learn my first language which has a bit more of these.

I am so happy that there is a "shift key" on the left shoulder button of the Pandora.

PS: Thanks for the corrections.

You do not need to think that I wanted to start a rant. This forum actually has a higher standard than many others.
BS, the reason your grammar isn't good is because it isn't important enough for you to improve on your own. Register, semantics, polysemous words, intonation, stress pattern, homophones, phonemes, morphemes and the list goes on, are all things that I have to at least touch on in class for a student to not sound like a babbling moron when they try to communicate with native speakers.

Even for native speakers, the proscriptivist BS is so invasive that people still can't comprehend that ungrammatical is not the same thing as wrong. Apart from hard core pedants, most people accept "He is taller than me" as correct, even though it isn't. And some grammatically correct constructs are never accepted by native speakers as being correct, even though grammatically they're correct.

Grammar is just a set of hooks and shelves upon which to hang your words. They are the structure of the language, not the language. Grammar is no more the language than the I beams are the skyscraper or the floor boards the car.

And let's not forget all that BS that people try to convince people is proper grammar. There's nothing wrong about dangling participles, splitting infinitives or the passive voice. They may be undesirable at times for stylistic reasons, but they're not wrong. Anybody who claims otherwise, is precisely why proscriptivism has fallen out of favor because they don't violate any English rules.

Of course, not everyone is good at grammar, especially in an other language, some errors are normal. What I can't stand is when people don't even bother reading what they wrote before posting... loosing all reader's time while not even taking a tiny moment to check spelling and grammar is really disrespectful...
I think you've missed an emoticon there...

And, I lost no time on you using "loosing" rather than "losing." The only people that lose time like that are people that have some sort of error correction defect. Normal people won't even notice the slip up.

Like I said earlier, this sort of bad behavior has more in common with mental illness and bullying than it does with any sort of legitimate philanthropic effort. It's a way of forcing people to conform to a specific social grouping and disparaging outsiders. Now, people might perceive it differently, but it's the same basic us versus them that drive all sorts of "-isms."
 

Fzero

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