FAQ for remaining Preorders of OpenPandora Ltd.

[hedwards]

That's just the fee for filing. There's still a couple hundred quid for the court costs and there's the day off work. As well as relevant travel expenses to file with the court that has jurisdiction.

So according to Stuart you can do everything online:http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14913-openpandora-ltd-uk-struck-off-email/?p=296909

I probably won't comment beyond this.
But, there's not really much in the way of details there. Seems odd that the actual room would come to nearly 250 quid when you figure that there's the magistrate and the court staff involved.

That may well be correct, but it's not consistent with what I was reading. I'm not sure, maybe there's specifics here that are different from the ones that the advice sites were dealing with.

 

[stuart]

If you make a claim via money claim online, you only pay extra fee's should a full court hearing be required or of you want to use court appointed enforcement of your judgment.

You may have to go to a court hearing if:

• the person or business says they don’t owe you any money
• they disagree with the amount
• you can’t agree on how the money will be repaid

Source: https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview

So, if the defendant deny they owe you the money, you can submit your additional information and request a judgment online. If this is inconclusive you may need a full hearing. 

Its unlikely that OPL will defend the claim. In my case they admitted full legal liability for the claim but stated OPL could not offer a payment plan as there was no money.

This response allows you to request a judgment online, since there's no defence the judgment should automatically be made in your favour and you get a CCJ  against OPL. This, on its own is pretty useless if they can't / won't pay.

So, at this point, you don't need a hearing as the judgment has been made, you can make a payment demand online for no additional cost, but if there's still no joy, you would need to enforce that claim using court appointed bailiffs, there's an extra £100 fee and you are not guaranteed to get anything back.

So Hedwards is right, if there is a hearing it costs more money, but the likelihood is a hearing won't be required. Simple cases are resolved online. In my case, I now have a judgment in my favour in return for my £25 fee. 

The Moneyclaim online service have a help desk number. They are very helpful so if you want to act, get their advice and also try the CAB. 

MoneyClaimOnline: e-maili your query to: MCOL@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk alternatively please telephone us on 0300 123 1057.

Citizens Advice: http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/getadvice.htm

 

[stuart]

It's only my opinion, based on testing the water on several avenues, but I feel that, while you are likely to get a judgment in your favour should you start a money claim online case, you are unlikely to get anything other than a CCJ against OPL which will be impossible to enforce without risking higher amounts of money. Of course, if you don't care about the money and just want to be seen to be taking action to present it to Companies House to further delay the strike off, then this will be effective.

But, at this stage, I'm afraid you will most likely get a court sanctioned order saying that you are owed the money, but you probably won't actually get the money.

If anyone still wants to act, start by trying your credit card company / bank / payment processor (such as google wallet or Paypal). These are free to try. 

Next, make sure you complain to your local trading standards (via the CAB in the UK, or via your local European trading standards office from anywhere else in the EU).

 

[hedwards]

SNIP

So, if the defendant deny they owe you the money, you can submit your additional information and request a judgment online. If this is inconclusive you may need a full hearing. 

Its unlikely that OPL will defend the claim. In my case they admitted full legal liability for the claim but stated OPL could not offer a payment plan as there was no money.

SNIP

OK, that's probably what I was missing. I tend to resist assuming that everything will go swimmingly and try to consider reasonable possibilities.

As I've said previously, I don't particularly care one way or another, I'm just skeptical that anything shy of a proper lawsuit in the normal venue is going to result in any inside information or actual money.

Obviously, folks should consult with an attorney before they take anything resembling legal advice from strangers online.

As for your other post, that's more or less what I would expect. Talking with Paypal or the CC company is effectively free, but I think for most of us, the period of time over which to file a claim has probably long since passed, and even then, the CC company is probably just going to eat the sum if they do agree to return the money.

 

[stuart]

Agreed - I've been poking around various avenues at my own risk and sharing results as they've happened, but ive neglected to say this. Proper advice should be obtained, from a lawyer if available (many offer free or cheap consultations) or at the very least the CAB. None of us are legal advisors, just guys online with an opinion.

 

[ElPoco]

Ten days ago, I've replied to ED's e-mail to indicate that I was willing to change my survey choice (update from 150€ to 200€), but I got no answer. I don't know if that's normal...

 

[EvilDragon]

I'm currently flooded with mails, so I'm a bit behind, yes. But no worries - I'll make sure all of these mails are being replied to before the next donations batch is ready, so you won't miss anything.

 

[guest_CD]

So let me get this straight, when we thought we were investing in the Pandora we weren't.

No

Non of our money actually helped to finance the production of the Pandora?

No

Craig used the money to buy parts, to pay some engineers who designed the Pandora, for the mould to create the case etc. . Just some money is "missing" (we don't know how Craig spendet it, if our own calculations are correct). One possible way how it was spended are the wages which craig paid himself and his workers to manufacture the Pandoras (connect the screen to the mainboard, put it into the case etc) and the rent of the manufacture building. The wages could have been paid in a time frame of 3 years. But it be would a lot of money i think it were 80K + 35K or some thing (so over 100K $).

So if Craig used the money to buy parts, to pay some engineer who designed the Pandora for the mould… We did invest in the company and without our support we then ED may not have been able to create the Pandora.  Based on this  I think ED is responsible for providing me with my Pandora unless he can prove that the money I sent Craig was the money he stole.  Otherwise my money went into the production of the Pandora and I should either be given a refund or a Pandora.

 

[_wb_]

So if Craig used the money to buy parts, to pay some engineer who designed the Pandora for the mould… We did invest in the company and without our support we then ED may not have been able to create the Pandora.  Based on this  I think ED is responsible for providing me with my Pandora unless he can prove that the money I sent Craig was the money he stole.  Otherwise my money went into the production of the Pandora and I should either be given a refund or a Pandora.

ED does not have to prove anything. You gave money to Craig (OpenPandora Ltd), you should get a refund or a Pandora from Craig. ED has nothing to do with OpenPandora Ltd.

 

[patnik]

^^Ohh geeez,... :huh: :blink: :rolleyes:

::shakes head ::

 

[comradekingu]

Ed got from craig, though not legally inherited, a whole heap of promises that craig had made and not kept, and problems relating to it. ED is the guy trying to help you with the problem you have with craig.

Calling a spade a spade and taking it up with craig is more honest than putting it on ED to sort things out, given the nature of the problem.

If craig wants to ruin things, there is the downfall we all have to catch up on, but that is limited to nothing now that ED is in charge from top to bottom and beyond. Just because he cares for customers of craig doesnt change the fact. Craig owes you whatever liabilities he incurred once you bought goods from him.

 

[Morn]

So if Craig used the money to buy parts, to pay some engineer who designed the Pandora for the mould… We did invest in the company and without our support we then ED may not have been able to create the Pandora.

Yes, initially Craig (OpenPandora Ltd.) took most of the production effort and risk and because of that he was struck by various misfortunes like nub company bankruptcy or CircuitCo fiasco. However that was the original deal between them and ED stated multiple times that if the risk had been divided other way he wouldn't participate. Then when production was moved to Germany Openpandora GMBH benefited indirectly with some know-how and business contacts but it had also quite serious money sunk into Craig's company which have never been returned and is a very direct loss.

 

[neko]

Yes, initially Craig (OpenPandora Ltd.) took most of the production effort and risk and because of that he was struck by various misfortunes like nub company bankruptcy or CircuitCo fiasco. However that was the original deal between them and ED stated multiple times that if the risk had been divided other way he wouldn't participate. Then when production was moved to Germany Openpandora GMBH benefited indirectly with some know-how and business contacts but it had also quite serious money sunk into Craig's company which have never been returned and is a very direct loss.

Yes, we are aware that the nub company bankruptcy and CircuitCo fiasco weren't Craig's fault.  Because of that, ED was very accommodating of Craig's situation and offered him a deal to cover the remaining preorders even though it meant OpenPandora GmbH (dragonbox.de) would take a loss delivering those Pandoras.  This was a really good deal for Craig becuase it would have allowed him to close down OpenPandora Ltd without a bankruptcy.

The problem is that Craig lied about how many preorders were left and how much money was owed.  He lied to his customers, telling them they would get their pandora, knowing that the deal he made with ED didn't include enough units to fill all those preorders.  Then he tried to blame ED for the shortfall.  This is why Craig is in the mess that he is in now.

 

[British]

7. When should I send an eMail and when shouldn't I do that?

Please send an eMail to shop@dragonbox.de when...

• ... you didn't receive that eMail.

How long does it take for mails to be processed there ?

I've sent an email 7 days ago and am yet to get an answer :unsure:

 

[mcobit]

Don't worry. It might take some time as ED is really busy.

 

[British]

Thanks for your answer.

As long as it doesn't take two months, it's fine :rolleyes:

 

[badfrog]

Finally just bit the bullet and paid another $150 to get my original classic preorder, since I saw a few were available.  I go to a big gaming convention every spring (Midwest Gaming Classic in Milwaukee), and every year for the past three I'd been hoping to have it in time to show off. 

I think once it's here just looking at it is going to make me sad, or angry at Craig for stealing $350 from me.

 

[Majin Wamu]

Gosh :/ I had no idea of the level of this situation and how a bunch of people got screwed. I bought my 1 ghz Open Pandora March 2013, and because of this jacked up situation I am now more grateful than ever that I had received my Pandora. I guess it was all luck that I bought from ED and not from Craig because I could had been in the same boat. :/ I will be sure to donate as soon as possible to help you guys out. It must be awful to look forward to something so amazing, and a couple years later you get screwed out of your money only to have to pay more for something that seems even more iffy than it was before this all happened.

 

[Jay]

Hey there, not sure I'm in the right thread, sorry if I'm not.

I'm one of the old Craig's preorder and I had initially asked for a refund following ED's survey. I did get the voucher in the mail though, so I was wondering if I could still use it ? Also, it seems the classic model voucher works for the rebirth edition, is that intended ? There were no mention of the rebirth edition in the voucher part of the mail.

 

[EvilDragon]

Hey there, not sure I'm in the right thread, sorry if I'm not.

I'm one of the old Craig's preorder and I had initially asked for a refund following ED's survey. I did get the voucher in the mail though, so I was wondering if I could still use it ? Also, it seems the classic model voucher works for the rebirth edition, is that intended ? There were no mention of the rebirth edition in the voucher part of the mail.

Yes, if you get the voucher, you can use it.

The classic model voucher should not be used for the Rebirth - but I cannot fix that in the shop (as it's the same product, just a different version), but I'm fine if you want to use it here