Re: A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)

[_wb_]

Did the person who asked that the thread be closed because it was 40some pages long get his Pandora? If so, why is he even interested, or better yet, concerned about the update and excuse me if it was tedious for you to read through.

I asked for that thread to be closed because somewhere in it there was actually some interesting information (e.g. Craig finally giving some numbers), but it got buried by dozens of pages of people repeating the same stuff over and over again. I don't see the point of repeating things over and over again. I'm in favor of having threads with a high signal to noise ratio, because that helps people to find out the current status of things. All those pages of redundant rants cycling through the same points over and over again just make it harder for people to find the info they're looking for.

To answer your question: yes, I got my Pandora (from ED), but that doesn't mean I no longer care about other people getting theirs. Which is why I'm glad that some information is given and wouldn't want that info to be obfuscated by hiding it, like a needle in a haystack, between hundreds of posts with no information content whatsoever.

 

[Marycontrary]

That is such a lame response. Craig was asked for 3 things...how many pre orders left, how many 1g orders left and how many refunds left. He answered around 800 (i think). That's not what Ed has estimated and I would like the thread to remain open so Craig can respond to that. If it's closed then we are at his mercy for when he might give us another, more honest answer. So don't tell me he gave some numbers because he gave one number. You are gald he gave some information, but you have your Pandora, so your perspective is way different than mine. If you can't understand that, then you certainly lack some sort of ability for empathy. I think the thread should stay open as a warning to others who may want to order a Pandora, that you may not get it, and better yet may desire to do business with stand up people who have the balls to answer hard questions when their customers have been waiting for years. We need to hear where any of the pre orders of the original suckers get a Pandora shipped. At least then I would have a clue that perhaps He is making some progress. As far as I know none have been shipped since the update thread started. And he has NEVER said I am fucking sorry this is happening to you.

 

[Klumpen]

OnTopic: Please use paragraphs. These blocks are not very nice to read. :/

 

[_wb_]

If you want to keep the thread open to allow Craig to answer a question that was asked on page 1, then why do you make him have to read through 42 pages of tedious rehashes of the same stuff? Do you really think that would be a good way for him to spend his time?

Besides, if Craig has got anything to add, he can just start a new thread.

I'm as upset as anyone about Craig's lack of transparency, but erecting dozens of pages of brick wall text isn't going to help.

 

[vcoleiro1]

In hindsight, it might have been better to delete the crap posts(like arguments over grammar) out of that thread and keep it open.  I guess that still could be done by a mod.

 

[Marycontrary]

So, Craig is clueless of what's happening in this thread. I've not received a response from my email I sent either. As far as Craig starting a new thread there is a problem with that. That means that those of us waiting are stuck reading the forums frequently for years, or dig through the forums for past threads which might give an update. How about a sticky where one can find the situation without searching.  If making a giant thread (which might get Craig's attention at least) isn't helping, what would. Shall I start a new thread from time to time? When I ordered this Pandora, I understood it to be a new product I was investing in. The development of this product. I didn't realize I was investing in Craig's store front, I thought I was investing in a company that wanted to make this product come to fruition. This product has been developed and since then more products have come to pass.

Edit to add: It might be a good thing for Craig to read 40some posts that question his ethics and integrety. He might learn something from the experience and become a better business person instead of acting like someone trying to avoid a bill collector.

 

[moxie]

Well, Craig won't. It's as simple as that. I don't know if you're a longtime lurker or if you're new around the boards, but if you are new, take it from me: Craig won't respond to this kind of posts. He won't give specific information on queues. He won't apologize. People may demand these things over and over again, and they may be oh so justified, but it will not happen. We can give you threads with the exact same content from a year ago. Or two. Or three. It won't happen. 

So, I agree with _wb_. There is no point in repeating these things. Particularly not in a thread that actually contains useful information.

 

[Marycontrary]

Then his comapny deserves to fail. The thread contained no useful information either, except Ed has not been paid as well. In fact, the thread just spawns new questions. Gee, you know it's hard to be a participant on all the boards when you haven't had the product in your hands, so no, I've posted maybe 12 times in more than 3 years now.

On the forum is a sticky on how to upgrade started by Craig and it's pinned. If you are new to the forums and interested in upgrading you would most likely go to the pinned thread and end up sending money to Craig's dark hole. That needs to be fixed as it seems Craig isn't in the business of taking orders anymore.

Perhaps, if the members of this group stood behind the original pre orders and put some pressure on Craig to answer these questions, then maybe some answers would be had. If he continues to stonewall, it makes a person wonder what he is hiding. What would you do if you found of the original pre-orders only 1% had been shipped? What if you found he had diverted money into other things? Unless some answers are given, no one will ever know. I have seen posts of people waiting 4 years and you people seem to just want to shut us up. Not very kind of the people reaping the benefits of my pre order to get things started. The least you could do is present a united front and press Craig into some answers. We deserve this. Clearly, there seems to be an issue of missing money. Also a reported failure rate for the pandora, far beyond what Ed has experienced. Are there really that many RMA's or is he saying there are to make the number look better. Is there someone to knock on Craig's door and see if he's still alive, take a peek at those RMA's and maybe fix them and send them out?

So, if I'm here for information then O've come to the wrong place? Should I just go away? So i need to just STFU?

 

[moxie]

I don't want to shut anyone up. I'm just stating the sum experience of hanging around this board and the gp32x one for the last six years-ish. I didn't mean to imply anything about "being new" apart from possibly not knowing how this thing with interacting with Craig works. 

Now, we do know that more than 1% of the original orders have shipped. And honestly, there were more interesting information in that thread if you read it through. However: The fat that a lot of people are angry, that Craig don't answer email and that he won't give proper number were not that information - That is old.

 

[Marycontrary]

How do you know that more than 1% shipped? He never gave an indication of the total orders or the orders remaining. There is a recent post from someone who ordered on day3 of the pre orders and is still waiting. If you had to guess, how many do you think were shipped from the original pre orders? I wish I never heard of Open Pandora.  I did read the entire thread and many other threads. No comments on my suggestion that forum members support the original pre orders by insisting on answers from Craig. Most of the people posting here have their units. You all happily chat away about your experiences and all is well in Pandora land. While the rest of us are dirt on his shoe. I am needing to make an informed decision on what I need to do. I have heard a cancellation is good because they lose money on the pre orders (which is probably why we are ignored), I've also heard cancellations are bad because it takes available funds for the manufacturing. If I cancel am I going to wait another 3 years for a refund? If things are going belly up, I sure would like to recoup some of my money. Why has Craig abandoned his pre orders to go on to other ventures? If the original pre orders cost more than my initial investment, why can't we pay the difference and get bumped up in the queue? No other options except to double your investment by upgrading? I hope that made sense. Your silence lets Craig know that this is all okay with you. I'm sorry I interrupted you Pandora party, Ill go lurk for another year.

 

[klapse]

Mary, it helps readability if you insert carriage returns to seperate the wall of text into paragraphs.

The biggest shame in closing the other thread is I STILL DON'T HAVE A CLUE where I stand in the queue, when or if I will EVER get this dang thing.

If you had been reading the thread, you should realize that nobody can predict when your preorder device will deliver. Clearing preorders happens only when a number of new units or upgrades sell. Craig cannot give you a delivery date since he doesn't know how fast they will sell.

Then the next thing I know, CC is history and they aren't being called on the carpet for their mistakes.

Mounting a lawsuit over the problems would be lengthy, difficult and costly, with no guarantee that the damages could be recouped.

I thought about the upgrade, but I am only a sucker once.

Cross upgrades ship immediately from Ed's stock and so far nobody has complained about not receiving their unit, so this is your option to get immediate delivery.

EDIT: You could also cancel your order with Craig and order a unit from Ithic.com. This would get you even faster shipping, and you would have a pandora while you wait for the eventual refund.


Nobody is happy about the situation, but you do have options other than just waiting.

 

[hedwards]

Strictly speaking your supposed to write out the entire word. However, you'll see that broken all the time in other types of writing because it's sterile and takes up space. You rarely see that in news or magazine articles as they
have more concern with space than formality.

Argh. Incorrect: "your supposed to"

As a general rule, grammar rules aren't worth enforcing unless you're being paid to edit the work or it's causing misunderstandings.

Correct: "you're being paid"

You teach English? I hope you don't feel unjustly hurt or suffer severely damaged self-esteem by my pointing out the error. You Americans and your precious emotions...


I sometimes take the time to point-out these particularly annoying errors and hopefully help the poster. Embarassment in front of one's peers is an effective pedagogical tool. I don't "enforce" anything.


EDIT: Happy holidays and merry Christmas to all!

Your instead of you're is a spelling error as was previously pointed. And if your curious, I also often times do that on purpose. But, I do have a neurological condition which makes it hard to get it correct without wasting a lot of time on it.

And yes, I do get paid to teach English. I expect my students to recognize that there's a local error there, not necessarily get it right every time. That would be ridiculous.

 

[klapse]

I expect my students to recognize that there's a local error there, not necessarily get it right every time. That would be ridiculous.

You don't mark down texts for incorrect use of homonyms? Is giving up on this standard operating procedure in American schools?

 

[Klumpen]

Your instead of you're is a spelling error as was previously pointed. And if your curious, I also often times do that on purpose. But, I do have a neurological condition which makes it hard to get it correct without wasting a lot of time on it.

And yes, I do get paid to teach English. I expect my students to recognize that there's a local error there, not necessarily get it right every time. That would be ridiculous.

Wow...i am shocked.

 

[hedwards]

Mary, it helps readability if you insert carriage returns to seperate the wall of text into paragraphs.

The biggest shame in closing the other thread is I STILL DON'T HAVE A CLUE where I stand in the queue, when or if I will EVER get this dang thing.

If you had been reading the thread, you should realize that nobody can predict when your preorder device will deliver. Clearing preorders happens only when a number of new units or upgrades sell. Craig cannot give you a delivery date since he doesn't know how fast they will sell.

Then the next thing I know, CC is history and they aren't being called on the carpet for their mistakes.

Mounting a lawsuit over the problems would be lengthy, difficult and costly, with no guarantee that the damages could be recouped.

I expect my students to recognize that there's a local error there, not necessarily get it right every time. That would be ridiculous.

You don't mark down texts for incorrect use of homonyms? Is giving up on this standard operating procedure in American schools?

ross upgrades ship immediately from Ed's stock and so far nobody has complained about not receiving their unit, so this is your option to get immediate delivery.

EDIT: You could also cancel your order with Craig and order a unit from Ithic.com. This would get you even faster shipping, and you would have a pandora while you wait for the eventual refund.


Nobody is happy about the situation, but you do have options other than just waiting.

It's a waste of time to focus on local errors when students have more important things to focus on. I'd be thrilled if my students were to the point where I could legitimately nit pick that.

And no, it's not like that in American schools. I'm in China and I'm damn lucky if I'm even allowed to grade a test, let alone mark it down for minor mistakes like that. Marking down a question because of something like that, is precisely why English teachers are so hated. It's a stupid thing to do, as long as you've established that the student knows the different.

 

[Klumpen]

It's a stupid thing to do, as long as you've established that the student knows the different. (difference)

If someone claims that he is teaching english, i expect that he DOES NOT EVER write like this.

A bad example is the worst case in learning languages and one of the reasons, why my english is not as good as it should be after all those years.

I am glad that nobody here writes like Mervyn Peake (although i love Gormenghast), but this language is going down.

 

[klapse]

I'm in China and I'm damn lucky if I'm even allowed to grade a test, let alone mark it down for minor mistakes like that. Marking down a question because of something like that, is precisely why English teachers are so hated. It's a stupid thing to do, as long as you've established that the student knows the different.

Ah I see. I understand not markig down an answer to a question because of grammar, but when writing an essay, all errors should count.


If I may ask, how'd you get started in China? Is it possible to rent a place and do your shopping as an English speaker? How is finding work? (this thread is all about offtopicness anyway)

 

[_wb_]

Maybe he's just a bit dyslexic. It doesn't necessarily mean he sucks as a language teacher; e.g. it may not impact his spoken language skills at all.

I don't mind language mistakes as long as people are doing their best to avoid making them. Depending on the occasion (e.g. IRC, forum, homework assignment or job application letter) you may want to spend more time to re-read and correct your language, and that's fine with me. It doesn't have to be perfect all the time.

I do mind language "mistakes" that are caused by people who for some reason refuse to press buttons like shift, enter, punctuation marks, etc, as if they're always typing everything on a crappy cell phone.

 

[WizardStan]

If someone claims that he is teaching English, I expect that he DOES NOT EVER write like this, ever.A bad example is the worst case in learning languages and one of the reasons,

why my English is not as good as it should be after all those years.

I am glad that nobody here writes like Mervyn Peake (although I love Gormenghast), but this language is going down.

 So if I understand correctly, what you are saying is that all the mistakes you made are a direct result of the mistakes that people posting on forums have made in the past? Further, you claim that if other people just took the time to ensure they didn't make these mistakes then the language would improve, but you yourself are not expected to be held to this standard for some reason?

Are we only holding the standards of perfection only to someone who claims to teach English? I ask because you have previously complained about others who have made minor mistakes in the past (none of which claimed to be teachers) and I just want to make sure you're being consistent. Wouldn't want to wrongfully point out the hypocrisy of your opinion after all.

 

[hedwards]

It's a stupid thing to do, as long as you've established that the student knows the different. (difference)

If someone claims that he is teaching english, i expect that he DOES NOT EVER write like this.

A bad example is the worst case in learning languages and one of the reasons, why my english is not as good as it should be after all those years.

I am glad that nobody here writes like Mervyn Peake (although i love Gormenghast), but this language is going down.

The point is, that over correction of students is worse than under correction of students. One of the worst problems you can have as a language teacher is no language at all. It's the mark of an inferior ESL instructor that demands perfection. By the time perfection can reasonably be expected, you're not really dealing with ESL students any more.

As for the bitching about my mistakes, they're just mistakes. If I wasn't posting between classes, due to the time zone differences, I could have grammar checked them. But, in all honesty, I have better things to do with my time than to reread my posts to make sure there aren't any grammar mistakes. Grammar checking for local grammar errors and spelling mistakes is time I could be using for actually do something of value.

As for your beliefs about the source of your grammar problems, you can always buy yourself a grammar manual. It's not like you can't learn and correct the errors in your understanding of grammar. But, when all is said and done, there's a reason why the term "grammars" exists, it's not just one grammar that fits even just American or British English, there are tons of variations.

As for _wb_'s point later on. Technically, I'm not dyslexic, but I do have a similar condition. I will always type the wrong homonym with great frequency when I'm typing and it's really not worth the time and effort it takes to correct for informal writing.

The texting abbreviations OTOH are a completely different kettle of fish.