Quotations, Production speed and the future (2011-09-01)

[peca]

I prefer trusted community members and known Pandora users. You can be sure notch will be one of the very first to receive a copy of the business plan!
Of course, anyone here from the boards can also help us out with some investments.


We need to set a minimum amount though, otherwise it will be way too much paperwork. The minimum amount should be something like 10.000 EUR.

Does it mean that You (OPT) going to accept (edit: I mean borrow) money from individual members of OP community? If that - what is minimum amount?

 

[MasterJulian]

Great news ED. So I guess the upgraded Hardware is off the table? If the production is moved to Germany, does this mean that the assembling will also be done in Germany? IIRC Craig invited users from the community to help him with the first units. I live in Bavaria and I could take the Train to Ingolstadt. I don't have the money to invest but I would like to support the project by helping with the assembly.

 

[NoeleyC]

I know the upgraded hardware is a no-go for the long forseeable future, but was there any decision made on changing the paint colour? I think the idea of a metallic blue Pandora sounds pretty cool, and might be a nice way to differentiate the next wave of Pandoras!

 

[F_Slim]

I know the upgraded hardware is a no-go for the long forseeable future, but was there any decision made on changing the paint colour? I think the idea of a metallic blue Pandora sounds pretty cool, and might be a nice way to differentiate the next wave of Pandoras!

Luckily the Smurf Pandora was just a joke !!!


ED was thinking of a black metallic paint.

 

[koomi]

Thanks once again thanks for the news ED . I hope everything works out this time.


I live in Bavaria aswell, so if the assembly takes place in Ingolstadt I might be able to help out a little, too.


Good luck

 

[Mr_Loon]

Many thanks for the interesting update ED.


One immediate question springs to mind :


What is the nature of your business relationship with Craig? My hope is that there has been a considerable change from when I last asked this question (can't find link sorry). Your answer then was along the lines of 'there is no formal agreement'.


Perhaps a better question would be : What is the 'corporate structure' of Open Pandora Ltd.


Really looking forward to seeing the business plan then hopefully investing in Open Pandora Ltd.

 

[EvilDragon]

Basically, OpenPandora Ltd. still has nothing to do with OpenPandora GmbH (my company), except that we both worked on the Pandora together.


Otherwise, these are two different companies.

 

[NoeleyC]

I know the upgraded hardware is a no-go for the long forseeable future, but was there any decision made on changing the paint colour? I think the idea of a metallic blue Pandora sounds pretty cool, and might be a nice way to differentiate the next wave of Pandoras!

Luckily the Smurf Pandora was just a joke !!!


ED was thinking of a black metallic paint.

ah well whatever colour they end up being, I hope they find some way to stop the random cracking! I've had to repair two cracks along the top edge near the screen (and my DIY skills are a tad lacking!!)

 

[ahahah]

Sorry if I missed something, but is the plan for CC to complete the boards for all of the outstanding orders, or will we be waiting for the German manufacture to get up to speed?

Their plan is to finish the remaining 1000 boards which would be all Batch 1 orders.

and this time how long do they predict to complete these 1000 boards?


it seems that they now ship 50 boards every 2 weeks. so 100 a month.


are they aware that with this rate they will finish in 10 months...?

 

[EvilDragon]

Sorry if I missed something, but is the plan for CC to complete the boards for all of the outstanding orders, or will we be waiting for the German manufacture to get up to speed?

Their plan is to finish the remaining 1000 boards which would be all Batch 1 orders.

and this time how long do they predict to complete these 1000 boards?


it seems that they now ship 50 boards every 2 weeks. so 100 a month.


are they aware that with this rate they will finish in 10 months...?

They can't predict anything. You never know how long it takes to repair one PCB.

 

[Mr_Loon]

Basically, OpenPandora Ltd. still has nothing to do with OpenPandora GmbH (my company), except that we both worked on the Pandora together.


Otherwise, these are two different companies.

Am I correct in understanding that community investment would be in OpenPandora GmbH and not OpenPandora Ltd? If this is the case then it is assumed you have some kind of license to produce & sell Pandora consoles.

 

[milkshake]

Am I correct in understanding that community investment would be in OpenPandora GmbH and not OpenPandora Ltd? If this is the case then it is assumed you have some kind of license to produce & sell Pandora consoles.

yes does this mean you and craig have some sort of prior agreement?

 

[EvilDragon]

Basically, OpenPandora Ltd. still has nothing to do with OpenPandora GmbH (my company), except that we both worked on the Pandora together.


Otherwise, these are two different companies.

Am I correct in understanding that community investment would be in OpenPandora GmbH and not OpenPandora Ltd? If this is the case then it is assumed you have some kind of license to produce & sell Pandora consoles.

Yes, I am allowed to do so, no worries.


I'm not splitting from Craig, it's just easier in Germany to handle things as a GmbH (people usually don't trust Ltds in Germany...)

 

[theshining]

This time it really looks like thing's are happening thanks for the update Ed, I'm a batch two pre orderer, (August 2010), so who did I order from Craigs company or Ed's, I didn't really realise there were two separate companies

 

[LineOf7s]

Sooo... CircuitCo is crawling along at 100 a month (current rates) with 1000 to go (and doling out what is half-a-step up from refurbished units), and the very best Germany will be able to manage it November/December if things go to plan (and how often does that happen around here?), so being near the end of Batch One...


I'm not going to see my Pandora before 2012, am I?

 

[ledow]

So, basically, everyone is back to where they were in 2007 (that's the earliest post I could find on GP32x discussing the "new handheld console"), except they're now listening to those who said "Don't use the cheapest company!" at the time, except for a handful of people who have a device that only a handful of other people have? Even down to seeking investment again? And the paid-preorders turned into too much of a nightmare to repeat (wouldn't be your tax consultant telling you that by any chance)?


It sounds like 4 years down the pan, to me - and the majority of people who originally ordered, and a significant portions of those who bought "premium" units, still haven't got what was promised multiple times. And in a couple of years time, assuming all goes perfectly from here on in, those units from the first batch will probably still be warned against due to poor production quality. I don't see how that's "looking good".


And I still find the legalities unnecessarily confusing - so there are two companies on opposite sides of the English Channel, owned by two different people, with zero paperwork between them, seeking investment with no clear contract on how owns what or has licensed what to whom or owes what to who, with zero effective stock control (given that people have to fight tooth and nail to find out where their units are, how many are remaining etc.), seeking investment into "something" that has already virtually failed once (and isn't exactly profitable yet), has been sourced out of the similar company that Craig owned into (up to two) separate entities that can individually collapse with little recourse, where the investors would have zero say in anything, for a minimum input of 10,000 EUR, when 4 years ago they were in a BETTER position and only managed to take backwards steps since then. That's not even really "investment" so much as "gambling" (which is vastly different).


Personally, the farce grows ever on and on, down from the door where it began...

 

[Pickle]

I think you should be really confident in the no cost preorders. At no cost there could be people that could preorder with no intention of paying.


In my opinion your should have preorders but at a small fee like $50, I think this would deter those from putting in false orders. Plus it also generates some cash that can go towards costs.

 

[EvilDragon]

So, basically, everyone is back to where they were in 2007 (that's the earliest post I could find on GP32x discussing the "new handheld console"), except they're now listening to those who said "Don't use the cheapest company!" at the time, except for a handful of people who have a device that only a handful of other people have?

CC was not cheap. And it was suggested we use them by TI.


The cheap company was the one in China, and that one did their job.

Even down to seeking investment again? And the paid-preorders turned into too much of a nightmare to repeat (wouldn't be your tax consultant telling you that by any chance)?

I was open for investors and suggested them for years and never really liked the paid preorders idea.


Craig didn't like investors, but he also doesn't want any more paid preorders.


Lucky we didn't use investors right from the start, as we would've run out of money then.

It sounds like 4 years down the pan, to me - and the majority of people who originally ordered, and a significant portions of those who bought "premium" units, still haven't got what was promised multiple times. And in a couple of years time, assuming all goes perfectly from here on in, those units from the first batch will probably still be warned against due to poor production quality. I don't see how that's "looking good".

1300 preordered units left (Batch 1 + Batch 2) versus about 2800 delivered units.


Where is your majority that didn't get it yet?

And I still find the legalities unnecessarily confusing - so there are two companies on opposite sides of the English Channel, owned by two different people, with zero paperwork between them, seeking investment with no clear contract on how owns what or has licensed what to whom or owes what to who, with zero effective stock control (given that people have to fight tooth and nail to find out where their units are, how many are remaining etc.), seeking investment into "something" that has already virtually failed once (and isn't exactly profitable yet), has been sourced out of the similar company that Craig owned into (up to two) separate entities that can individually collapse with little recourse, where the investors would have zero say in anything, for a minimum input of 10,000 EUR, when 4 years ago they were in a BETTER position and only managed to take backwards steps since then. That's not even really "investment" so much as "gambling" (which is vastly different).

You try to sound like a smart-ass without having even seen the business plan, don't you?


I am well aware that no investor would want to invest into any company where it's unclear whether they depend on someone else to even start the production or not and which parts they own.


First, my business plan includes that my company buys the remaining parts from Craigs company so that everything is handled from one company.


It also includes the preorders that still have to be delivered.


It also includes a calculation of how much money is needed for that all and how much profit there is after a certain amount of units have been produced and shipped.


If you haven't found out yourself: The issues we had (LCD cables, Nubs, etc.) have been solved already.


The only real issue left right now is the board company, and that's why we have a new one ready now.


2800 units are out there, some for over a year and still work fine.


It's been proven the product itself works and the users are happy with it.


All that's left is a stable production, development is finished. So with a business plan, it's pretty clear for an investor what he invests in what he can gain from that.

Personally, the farce grows ever on and on, down from the door where it began...

No one forces you to agree with anything that happens here.


However, right now you're talking about stuff without even really knowing anything about the business plan and the approach.


You have no idea what exactly is going on nor did you even understand how many have been delivered and where the problems are.


And then you try to call that a farce. Right.

 

[Caine]

First, my business plan includes that my company buys the remaining parts from Craigs company so that everything is handled from one company.

Are you saying that Craig is jumping ship with regard to the Pandora?

 

[milkshake]

First, my business plan includes that my company buys the remaining parts from Craigs company so that everything is handled from one company.

Are you saying that Craig is jumping ship with regard to the Pandora?

I doubt this is the case, it prob just makes more sense for the business plan to succeed.