Pandora Shipping In February 2009?

[valhalla]

Feb? I hope it does, i'm tired of people at my LUG asking me about it since i told them when it was preorder time. I really didnt wanna do that, but since it was the _only_ option for ordering to get one... did I voice my concerns over that business model before? ^^'

It wasn't your only option, there was also the option to wait for a few months and buying a pandora with full working firmware and a few emus/homebrew from a local reseller from second / third batch

 

[piercer]

I ordered a pandora once, a very long time ago, and then when the refunds went out I decided that enough was enough and didn't reorder.

I occasionally check back to see whether they've actually managed to get this thing out the door, but you're all still waiting... and waiting... LOL

In another post I said you'll be lucky to get a pandora this year - I still stand by that!

Incompetent isn't a word that comes anywhere near enough.

But no doubt you'll all blame other companies for the delay... If any other company failed to deliver like this - for whatever reason - there would be a classs action lawsuit against.

Later fanboys

 

[MiniSinisterMinister]

The current schedule seems plausible enough to me. I also think that the fourth quarter of a year is not the ideal time to finish devopment and start mass production of a handeld. So considering the circumstances, I feel the delay is not yet really serious. Although my enthusiasm from November has calmed down a little but it is still there. Not much harm done.

I just hope that they stick to their current schedule. Please do not change anything from now on and get this handheld out asap. The frist Nintendo DS wasn't a 100% ideal device but it sold very well and few people were angry when Nintendo introduced the better "Lite" version later. The most important thing is not to lose the current momentum. There are already people in this forum who say that they stopped talking about the Pandora to outsiders because they fear it will be delayed further and further. If the Pandora does not ship in the first quarter of this year, there will be a danger of many customers turning their back on the handheld. This is more dangerous for the project than people saying well the Pandora is good but there is still room for improvement.

 

[G189]

I ordered a pandora once, a very long time ago, and then when the refunds went out I decided that enough was enough and didn't reorder.

A very long time ago? Soooo, when the pre-orders started then? 30th September? Just over 3 months ago? That's a 'very long time', especially given they weren't going to ship until the start of November at the ver earliest?

Each to their own.

 

[johnjtaylor]

All this bleating about the delivery schedule has finally annoyed me into posting! The whole deal here is that we are putting up our money on a pre-order basis in order to get a unique project off the ground. There's nothing else near this thing, so a few teething problems in chasing an assortment of manufacturers around the world and getting a very small production run completed are to be expected. If you think the devs are doing a bad job, then I beg to differ - take for example the Gigabyte M528. This was announced as "imminently available" way back last year (CES 2008?) and has still not surfaced in any significant quantity despite the fact that Expansys were taking money for it in September. Gigabyte are a huge company (by comparison) and have a lot of experience in the field and they can't get it totgether in the curent climate.
We are at the vanguard of a unique, open source and user-led revolutionary product and business model. We all knew that when we signed up. If you want something to play with now, then go and buy yourself a DS or an eeePC. Otherwise, sit tight and feel the anticipation rise!
I'm excited, I want mine today, but I know that things are hard work. We're nearly at the vinegar strokes so *please* stop the whining.

</RANT>

John

 

[tolysz]

Coming from a software development background (just none of it in Linux, to my dismay), scope creep is often the source of delays. I think scope creep / last minute design changes can apply to hardware as well.

And applying SoftDev background to:
QUOTE
Case Design: January 15th
Case Prototyping: approx. 1-2 weeks later
Final production and delivery: approx. 2 - 4 weeks later


delivery time = approx. time x 2 + (constant)
where constant is dependent on a developer usually 1-2 in the same units

When they said in October consoles will arrive in 2 months, it gives 2 x 2 +(1 or 2) months to wait and this gives delivery date February, March.

And now:
The worst scenario: 1 week + 2x(2 + 4) + (1 or 2) weeks = March or April
The best scenario: 1 week + 2x(1 + 2) + (1 or 2) weeks = February/ March

But we will see This way of calculating time usually works for me.

http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/DotNe...rEstimates.aspx
QUOTE
Take the coder's estimate and secretly calculate a more realistic estimate by multiplying their estimated time by 5. If the coder has given you the estimate after all of the requirements have been fully documented in a formal document (and/or prototype) and finalized, then you only need to multiply it by 2. (Click here to learn where these numbers come from.) Then, use this realistic estimate in your planning, rather then the coder's estimate.

 

[Dubya']

"take for example the Gigabyte M528"

And not only is it _way_ late, for $750 the Gigabyte M528 specs really stink:

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Notebo...?ProductID=2833

 

[Monk]

it's good to know that SW updates will be as easy as regular firmware updates (that, and the fact that the Pandora is designed to be unbrickable).

I keep reading that the Pandora will be unbrickable. Does no-one recall the Tintanic?

 

[MDave]

it's good to know that SW updates will be as easy as regular firmware updates (that, and the fact that the Pandora is designed to be unbrickable).

I keep reading that the Pandora will be unbrickable. Does no-one recall the Tintanic?


Pandora Manual: Use and safety #13: Stay clear of icebergs.

 

[Monk]

it's good to know that SW updates will be as easy as regular firmware updates (that, and the fact that the Pandora is designed to be unbrickable).

I keep reading that the Pandora will be unbrickable. Does no-one recall the Tintanic?


Pandora Manual: Use and safety #13: Stay clear of icebergs.






Glad to see a humerous response - I was half expecting an angry mob armed with pitchforks

I'd rather expect my Pandora to be, well, modern electronics than a wonder-device. Excellence yes, I'd love some excellence, but I'd rather not assume it to be all-capable or all-reliable because too often in the IT world such beliefs get shattered when something does finally go wrong.

I'm a Linux luttide, so I'm really curious (for example) of what protection we'll have against nasties over the WiFi or Bluetooth - is there any MalWare software that the Pandora team are building in, or will we all have to research our own options or just hope tha tLinux remains niche enough to be at minimal risk? (for example)

 

[WizardStan]

I'm a Linux luttide, so I'm really curious (for example) of what protection we'll have against nasties over the WiFi or Bluetooth - is there any MalWare software that the Pandora team are building in, or will we all have to research our own options or just hope tha tLinux remains niche enough to be at minimal risk? (for example)

Shouldn't make any difference whether you've used Linux before or not. As I've mentioned to others, you've probably already used linux and never even knew it. Lots of devices use linux in one form or another, and once the OS is done, it should be completely transparent that it runs linux inside: it will be just any other interface, like the Wii channels, or the PS3 bar thingy, or whatever it is that the XBox uses. Of course, because it does run linux, if you're of a mind and skill to do some extra poking then you're free to do so, but such poking shouldn't in any way be necessary.
As far as nasties, you shouldn't have to worry. Linux is mostly unexploitable from the outside, and if you are worried, the wifi can be turned off when not in use.
The only thing you should worry about is downloading and running untrusted code. Only download from the official repository, and you'll be fine. Even if you do get some sort of virus, the worst thing it can do is wipe out your SD card, possibly force you to reinstall the firmware, unlike some viruses I've seen for the PSP that can actually brick it.

 

[GregorR]

Linux is mostly unexploitable from the outside

Famous last words.

 

[hch]

I ordered a pandora once, a very long time ago, and then when the refunds went out I decided that enough was enough and didn't reorder.

I occasionally check back to see whether they've actually managed to get this thing out the door, but you're all still waiting... and waiting... LOL

In another post I said you'll be lucky to get a pandora this year - I still stand by that!

Incompetent isn't a word that comes anywhere near enough.

But no doubt you'll all blame other companies for the delay... If any other company failed to deliver like this - for whatever reason - there would be a classs action lawsuit against.

Later fanboys

companies don't do any of this stuff. they will simply not talk about what they are going to build until they have a finished prototype to present at a big trade fare. this is a low budget project with high goals. a few months delay are the norm in these kind of endeavours. if you expected anything else it just serves to show your unrealistic expectations.

 

[WizardStan]

Linux is mostly unexploitable from the outside

Famous last words.

I qualified it with "mostly". I didn't say it was impregnable, just that impregnation is highly unlikely.
As an analogy, if you never have sex, wearing a condom to prevent STDs is a pretty silly idea. Someone could still give you a syringe that says "brain booster: totally not aids" and be lying to you. There's just no real way of preventing you from doing something stupid like injecting yourself with unknown substances. Maybe you know the risks and like injecting yourself with unknown substances and don't want your silly OS telling you otherwise.
Anywho, this is a bad analogy, as it equates owning a Pandora with never having sex. Then again, maybe it's not so far off after all.

 

[valhalla]

I keep reading that the Pandora will be unbrickable. Does no-one recall the Tintanic?

I'm a Linux luttide, so I'm really curious (for example) of what protection we'll have against nasties over the WiFi or Bluetooth - is there any MalWare software that the Pandora team are building in, or will we all have to research our own options or just hope tha tLinux remains niche enough to be at minimal risk? (for example)


when they talk of "unbrickable" they don't mean that the system will be 100% safe from damage, only that you won't be able to damage it (with software) in such a way that can't be solved by a firmware reflash.

 

[Kyo]

The Pandora ruins friendships. A friend of mine keeps asking me "do you have your pandora already?" and I answer him really rudely because I'm annoyed of the thousands of delays. You may have noticed that I even stopped being active on these forums (until I get my Pandora) because I just don't want to discuss the damn thing anymore, I just want to have it.

 

[CCmachined]

The Pandora ruins friendships. A friend of mine keeps asking me "do you have your pandora already?" and I answer him really rudely because I'm annoyed of the thousands of delays.

I mentioned it to a friend before but didnt talk about it after that, and neither did he. I'm not telling anybody about it (well except my local LUG who i told at preorder time, if they ask about it, although this rarely happens) until i physically have the device.

QUOTE

You may have noticed that I even stopped being active on these forums (until I get my Pandora) because I just don't want to discuss the damn thing anymore, I just want to have it.



I'm not that unhappy but i can certainly understand 100%. Remember people saying "wait 6-8 weeks"? Well, apparently it's 8+ weeks from now at the earliest... -.-

ah well, it'll still be great when it does finally arrive.

 

[Monk]

I'm a Linux luttide, so I'm really curious (for example) of what protection we'll have against nasties over the WiFi or Bluetooth - is there any MalWare software that the Pandora team are building in, or will we all have to research our own options or just hope tha tLinux remains niche enough to be at minimal risk? (for example)

Shouldn't make any difference whether you've used Linux before or not. As I've mentioned to others, you've probably already used linux and never even knew it. Lots of devices use linux in one form or another, and once the OS is done, it should be completely transparent that it runs linux inside: it will be just any other interface, like the Wii channels, or the PS3 bar thingy, or whatever it is that the XBox uses. Of course, because it does run linux, if you're of a mind and skill to do some extra poking then you're free to do so, but such poking shouldn't in any way be necessary.
As far as nasties, you shouldn't have to worry. Linux is mostly unexploitable from the outside, and if you are worried, the wifi can be turned off when not in use.
The only thing you should worry about is downloading and running untrusted code. Only download from the official repository, and you'll be fine. Even if you do get some sort of virus, the worst thing it can do is wipe out your SD card, possibly force you to reinstall the firmware, unlike some viruses I've seen for the PSP that can actually brick it.

Oh I've certainly used Linux before, quite deliberately, but not enough to know anything about it (I probably recall more CP/M than I do Linux - though witht he state of my memory that's debateable - I can't even spell "luddite", remember...)

I'd expect a lot of people - myself in particular - to want to use Pandora in part ot experiment with Linux. Maybe try coding a few things on it... so setting up development environments, adding libraries, all sorts of things that are reasonably likely to end up messing about with the Operating System. To be "unbrickable" would IMHO need the OS (or a version of the OS at least) to be on ROM with some way of forcing it to be flashed to get a clean boot environment. I can see people, reassured byt the "unbrickable" comments, toasting their OS's and then wondering how to get it back if there's no hardware "fix me!" button/key combination.

the likelihood of people only downloading from the Pandora file repository seems quite low to me - this device is designed to be geeky with IMHO... and while some may be happy to run MAME and Finalburn and whatever and little else, I suspect that most of the first batch of users (at least) will be rather more tempted to go beyond the obvious and treat it like an open-ended computing experience rather than JUST a games console.

 

[Squidge]

I'd expect a lot of people - myself in particular - to want to use Pandora in part ot experiment with Linux. Maybe try coding a few things on it... so setting up development environments, adding libraries, all sorts of things that are reasonably likely to end up messing about with the Operating System. To be "unbrickable" would IMHO need the OS (or a version of the OS at least) to be on ROM with some way of forcing it to be flashed to get a clean boot environment. I can see people, reassured byt the "unbrickable" comments, toasting their OS's and then wondering how to get it back if there's no hardware "fix me!" button/key combination.

You mean a way to keep all user modifications to the operating system so that if they screw it up, the system can immediately be reverted back to the factory default? Something like a stackable unification file system?

 

[WizardStan]

the likelihood of people only downloading from the Pandora file repository seems quite low to me - this device is designed to be geeky with IMHO... and while some may be happy to run MAME and Finalburn and whatever and little else, I suspect that most of the first batch of users (at least) will be rather more tempted to go beyond the obvious and treat it like an open-ended computing experience rather than JUST a games console.

Who said anything about just games? The repository should (if I understand the plan) contain all the programs you could want to install: games, office and internet apps, system tools, etc... The Angstrom repository is already quite full of programs, many of which should require nothing more than someone making sure it works and then posting it to the official Pandora repository. There's not been a lot of talk about it, but I'm reasonably sure there will be some sort of update process, not unlike the Debian package manager.
That's what I meant by using the official repository. What you need to watch out for is someone showing up on the forum and saying "hey, try this game I've just written." You need to make the judgement call about whether to run the program and risk it being a virus, or wait until someone else has taken that risk and given the OK.

Regarding unbrickable, the Pandora really is. In the event he firmware becomes corrupt, you can always boot off an SD card and reflash the firmware to the current (or a previous) OS release.