Pandora Keyboard Layout

[jhoff80]

Okay, I prefer Cosurgi's personally. However, for this to work best, the software would have to work in sort of a lock mode like many QWERTY phones do it. Aka, to do control C, you press control, then C. I think that's what the text below is trying to get across, but I wanted to make sure.

 

[cosurgi]

Okay, I prefer Cosurgi's personally. However, for this to work best, the software would have to work in sort of a lock mode like many QWERTY phones do it. Aka, to do control C, you press control, then C. I think that's what the text below is trying to get across, but I wanted to make sure.

I thought that "sticky keys" is the usual name for that, by convention. And yes - it's exactly like you described.

EDIT: if we reach 300 people voting (600 votes, because two questions are asked) it will be 10% of the first batch! Currently we are at 3% :angry:

 

[kagato]

Well the largest difference I see is that the shift+# row of buttons on a standard "qwerty" keyboard has been: ! @ # $ % ^ & * ( ). Both of these layouts map function buttons to the shift+#s.

We've given our reasoning for this layout previously:

• It keeps all the punctuation symbols in the same block of keys (the number row is much more separated than it is on a keyboard)
• You use the same key (Fn) to access all of the punctuation symbols (except the dedicated keys on my layout)

However: there may be good technical reasons not to do it our way.
We are both using Shift-<num> to represent a different keypress (similar to Fn), whereas Shift should really only be a keystroke modifier (ie, same keycode is sent).
If Shift-1 for F1 is not practical to implement, we would need to rearrange things, and putting the symbol row back on the numbers would be sensible (so that Shift-<num> produces the same result as a keyboard).

This can be done with only a minor change to either layout by swapping the top 2 rows:

• Move the F keys to Fn-<num>
• Move the top row of keyboard symbols to Shift on the number row (as normal)
• Move the functions from the number row to Fn on the top keyboard row

You may notice that the Mouse Mode button is missing.
For the same reason as the F keys, Shift-Backspace might not be usable for Delete,
so Delete is moved to Fn-Backspace, and Insert has to be given its own key.
Mouse toggle can always be accessed via the menu if needed.

This would mean that you'd use Fn-key for some symbols and Shift-key for others, but that's manageable.

Also, note that this doesn't really change the main area of debate (Ctrl/Alt placement & priority, and the subsequent effect on keyboard layout), so you can still vote based on the poll question.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Damn, cosurgi didn't put common punctuation, and Kagato put the damn YUAN INSTEAD OF THE DOLLAR SYMBOL. Seriously, people. :rolleyes:

 

[cosurgi]

Damn, cosurgi didn't put common punctuation, and Kagato put the damn YUAN INSTEAD OF THE DOLLAR SYMBOL. Seriously, people. :rolleyes:

Dollar is on "R": Fn+R=$
The whole point of this voting is the trade-off between "," "." and Ctrl, Alt. Just look at how many keys there are available. It's simply not possible to have both Ctrl,Alt and , . as primary keys on the keyboard. Unless you have some revolutionary approach

 

[greendots]

Thanks kagato I could definitely live with your last submission.

Theres still so many places that ctrl and alt can be placed. As they are just modifier buttons and not used nearly as much as punctuation: start and select, AB, XY, L and R.

Could any one find any research on most commonly typed keys on a keyboard? I could not find info on anything but the letters themselves.

 

[Kings]

I just can't see using alt or ctrl more than < and >.

 

[JayFoxRox]

Damn, cosurgi didn't put common punctuation, and Kagato put the damn YUAN INSTEAD OF THE DOLLAR SYMBOL. Seriously, people. :rolleyes:

Dollar is on "R": Fn+R=$
The whole point of this voting is the trade-off between "," "." and Ctrl, Alt. Just look at how many keys there are available. It's simply not possible to have both Ctrl,Alt and , . as primary keys on the keyboard. Unless you have some revolutionary approach

No-body asked for them to be major (I think everyone tolerates them beeing more or less minor), but the thing is: If your layout had "." and "," mapped to R and L it would make stuff alot easier. I just want all of these 4 important keys easily reachable, and not through function keys
(This is what I ment with useless mouse emulation - RMB and LMB are less important than "." and "," which is why it is stupid putting LMB and RMB on easily reachable buttons like L and R)

 

[Arialia]

Thanks kagato I could definitely live with your last submission.

Theres still so many places that ctrl and alt can be placed. As they are just modifier buttons and not used nearly as much as punctuation: start and select, AB, XY, L and R.

Could any one find any research on most commonly typed keys on a keyboard? I could not find info on anything but the letters themselves.

good question you can search on the research of Dvorak keyboard

Dvorak had made this for english to make his keyboard

i have find this for french language : http://www.algo.be/ergo/principe.htm

result here : http://www.algo.be/ergo/frequences.html

QUOTE
virg [,] 1.29%

apos ['] 1.18%
pt [.] 0.69%
as you see for french the [,] is more useful in "book" than [.] and than [G] !

[,] is 17th position
['] is 19th
[.] is 22th

it will be interesting to execute the program on a forum thread but not this of course

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Damn, cosurgi didn't put common punctuation, and Kagato put the damn YUAN INSTEAD OF THE DOLLAR SYMBOL. Seriously, people. :rolleyes:

Dollar is on "R": Fn+R=$
The whole point of this voting is the trade-off between "," "." and Ctrl, Alt. Just look at how many keys there are available. It's simply not possible to have both Ctrl,Alt and , . as primary keys on the keyboard. Unless you have some revolutionary approach

I just looked at his layout again, Fn+R=Yuan...

Don't get me wrong, I like your layout a lot. I voted for it originally, and Ctrl and Alt would be nice keys to have printed on the keyboard. But to think anyone would use them more than a period and comma is kind of absurd. They're major symbols in virtually every language, and seeing as the majority of us speak English, it's an even bigger deal.

 

[dgame]

I vote Kagato. This thing has WiFi so I am going to use the dot/period (.) a lot. And since Ctrl and Alt are generally modifier keys in linux putting them on the shoulders is ideal.

 

[DasFool]

I voted for Kagato's layout but I'd be ok if the ',' and '.' keys could be used on Cosurgi's layout as base keys and alt and control used on L and R. Good work guys

 

[banjeed]

Quick question, have the devs expressed any interest in this thread? It seems to have been left to the community to bicker about. I'm wondering if we're wasting our time with it.

 

[Chip]

Quick question, have the devs expressed any interest in this thread? It seems to have been left to the community to bicker about. I'm wondering if we're wasting our time with it.

Mweston showed some interest a while back. There still isn't an official layout, so at least the question is still open for debate. People need something to occupy themselves with while we wait for the Pandora. Better a topic like this, which has produced many interesting ideas (some of which may be included in the final design) than a topic like this, which produces nothing.

 

[White Demon]

I voted for Kagato's layout coming into this, but bloody hell Kagato you've outdone yourself with the update on the previous page, it's actually MORE logical than any previous design.

Of course the only problem is where to remap the , . etc keys if CTRL and ALT are printed there instead. I actually wouldn't mind seeing what Cosurgi could do with this version of the keyboard layout.

 

[banjeed]

Quick question, have the devs expressed any interest in this thread? It seems to have been left to the community to bicker about. I'm wondering if we're wasting our time with it.

Mweston showed some interest a while back. There still isn't an official layout, so at least the question is still open for debate. People need something to occupy themselves with while we wait for the Pandora. Better a topic like this, which has produced many interesting ideas (some of which may be included in the final design) than a topic like this, which produces nothing.


thanks man, I was looking for more of those red X avatars before I started caring.

 

[greendots]

I voted for Kagato's layout coming into this, but bloody hell Kagato you've outdone yourself with the update on the previous page, it's actually MORE logical than any previous design.

Of course the only problem is where to remap the , . etc keys if CTRL and ALT are printed there instead. I actually wouldn't mind seeing what Cosurgi could do with this version of the keyboard layout.

I dont think people are paying enough attention to these threads...

 

[cosurgi]

Of course the only problem is where to remap the , . etc keys if CTRL and ALT are printed there instead. I actually wouldn't mind seeing what Cosurgi could do with this version of the keyboard layout.

well, here you are:

We are one key short, because shift-backspace slot must be empty now. So I had to use Fn-Enter once again for Airport toggle.

 

[White Demon]

Yes. very nice indeed.

@greendots: I saw your design, but I personally don't really like the media keys on the keyboard (I have media buttons on my PC keyboard and never use them). That's why I said I liked Kagato's (and now Cosurgi's) newest updates more.

edited for spelling.

 

[squirrel]

I came up with a alternative.

I know "enter" should have its own key, but can you not make do with "shift+space" or the "X" button?

this way "ctrl" and "alt" have there own keys "," and "." share a key but i dont think that will be unmanagable.