Pandora Keyboard Layout

[MarkoeZ]

Definately kagato's. I don't think we want the pandora forum flooded by posts that just ramble on without using any commas or periods, as soon as this thing hits the market.

 

[rokdcasbah]

SysRq? You guys are insane. And I'm not sure it's the good kind of insane.

Macs do just fine without all the legacy keys. I'm sure there's dos or text mode linux programs that make use of more keys, and it doesn't hurt to map them behind the scenes, but some of that stuff wouldn't be missed at all I don't think.

It might make more sense to have different mappings for region, and when you turn it on the first time, it asks you to pick a region. I for one have never needed the AltGr or Compose keys (us Americans don't go in for the fancy stuff over the letters ).

As far as mouse buttons being on L & R as opposed to A & B...I suppose I could get used to either one.

 

[Chip]

I'm sorry, but how is it practical to have to use a button combination or function keys to use PERIODS and COMMAS, the two most common forms of punctuation in the entire freakin' English language?

As someone who uses daily (and frequently posts to this forum from) a qwerty cellphone without dedicated punctuation keys, I can say with absolute certainty that it isn't a problem.

Im still very opposed to both layouts not being near qwerty. Im still opposed to having no punctuation keys.

I'm not sure how your "qwerty" keyboard is laid out, but both of the options here look right to me. All the letters are where they're supposed to be. I'm also not sure which keys you would like to be relabled for punctuation. There are only so many to work with :rolleyes:

 

[cosurgi]

For me it's like wow! Kagato is winning :lol:

I must say that it's been a pleasure to work with him, trying to find the best layout.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

I'm sorry, but how is it practical to have to use a button combination or function keys to use PERIODS and COMMAS, the two most common forms of punctuation in the entire freakin' English language?

As someone who uses daily (and frequently posts to this forum from) a qwerty cellphone without dedicated punctuation keys, I can say with absolute certainty that it isn't a problem.
For you, maybe, but not for many. I don't want to re-learn typing on Pandora with awkward button combinations or reprogramming a button without a printed character to act as my punctuation.

 

[greendots]

...
I'm not sure how your "qwerty" keyboard is laid out, but both of the options here look right to me. All the letters are where they're supposed to be. I'm also not sure which keys you would like to be relabled for punctuation. There are only so many to work with :rolleyes:

Well the largest difference I see is that the shift+# row of buttons on a standard "qwerty" keyboard has been: ! @ # $ % ^ & * ( ). Both of these layouts map function buttons to the shift+#s.

The rest are "only" logical things like:
fn+# should be F#. After all, both abbreviations mean function.
the blue (alternate) mappings of keys should be as close as possible to where they are on a normal keyboard.

The layout I had made follows "qwerty" layout the closest. The remaining keys I tried to map logically: Wireless on 'W'. Esc in the corner of keyboard. contrast control on 'c'. And the only one with mapped media controls.

Like I have been saying, I'm not married to my layout. Though I do think it MUST follow "qwerty" which means what I've already stated about the number row.

 

[Loon]

Both look like highly acceptable layouts, either would be fine but Kagato slightly edges it for me.

Many thanks to all concerned for the effort put into this vital bit of the jigsaw.

 

[cosurgi]

The layout I had made follows "qwerty" layout the closest. The remaining keys I tried to map logically: Wireless on 'W'. Esc in the corner of keyboard. contrast control on 'c'. And the only one with mapped media controls.

Just for the record: F11, F12, Insert, and mouse toggle are missing. Not that bad I don't know why you scored 6% in previous voting....

BTW, it's quite funny how in the first voting I scored 46% and in the second voting it's .... almost the same: 48% currently. Everyone who didn't vote for me is voting for Kagato now :rolleyes:

 

[geo12]

Definately kagato's. I don't think we want the pandora forum flooded by posts that just ramble on without using any commas or periods, as soon as this thing hits the market.

Seconded. You don't need that comma after the word "periods" btw.

 

[cosurgi]

heh, maybe if we will have a tie, the devs will decide to make 1500 units with one layout and 1500 units with another layout? When selling, there is a safe margin because some of people just really don't care and can use both layouts equally well (just look at the replies on the forum).

So I think that this could make everyone happy.... except the dev team because it's an extra work and not enough time for that...

 

[TaG]

I'm sorry, but how is it practical to have to use a button combination or function keys to use PERIODS and COMMAS, the two most common forms of punctuation in the entire freakin' English language?
As someone who uses daily (and frequently posts to this forum from) a qwerty cellphone without dedicated punctuation keys, I can say with absolute certainty that it isn't a problem.For you, maybe, but not for many. I don't want to re-learn typing on Pandora with awkward button combinations or reprogramming a button without a printed character to act as my punctuation.
Although I understand where you're coming from here, with only 43 keys or whatever we are going to have to learn to do something different. I think that the size of the keypad means you are almost better looking at it as a great mobile keypad than a poor computer keyboard. Lets face it when people were faced with sending texts for the first time some people screaming and kicked, but they've probably forgotten that now as nearly everybody seems to build speed. Then when you get a new phone from a different company you hate it for a few days then forget all about it. Think of Pandora as your new 'text' device and you'll be fine.

Well the largest difference I see is that the shift+# row of buttons on a standard "qwerty" keyboard has been: ! @ # $ % ^ & * ( ). Both of these layouts map function buttons to the shift+#s.

The rest are "only" logical things like:
fn+# should be F#. After all, both abbreviations mean function.
the blue (alternate) mappings of keys should be as close as possible to where they are on a normal keyboard.
I would have preferred your layout on the numbers row - some punctuation/characters would then have been in the 'right' place and you press the function button for function keys. But the top two didn't have that option...

 

[greendots]

The layout I had made follows "qwerty" layout the closest. The remaining keys I tried to map logically: Wireless on 'W'. Esc in the corner of keyboard. contrast control on 'c'. And the only one with mapped media controls.

Just for the record: F11, F12, Insert, and mouse toggle are missing. Not that bad I don't know why you scored 6% in previous voting....
...


Actually the keys where never missing. They are unmapped keys which I had shown on my previous layouts but cut out since it has nothing to do with the printing of the keys. Mouse toggle seems useless to me... after its set you probably wont change it. But, this is linux so the user could always use a key combination.

...
BTW, it's quite funny how in the first voting I scored 46% and in the second voting it's .... almost the same: 48% currently. Everyone who didn't vote for me is voting for Kagato now :rolleyes:

I dont think its surprising considering the outcome of the last poll (if it really means anything)...
70.55% voted not to have alt and ctrl on the keyboard. [question 2]

OT: I dont mean my opposition to the layouts as an attack on anyone. Also I hate to post 3 times in one day let alone in one thread but the keyboard is very important.

 

[cosurgi]

I dont think its surprising considering the outcome of the last poll (if it really means anything)...
70.55% voted not to have alt and ctrl on the keyboard. [question 2]

Look again, you've made a mistake:

• 26.90% want Alt,Ctrl on L/R shoulder buttons,
• 73.10% want Alt,Ctrl on the keyboard.

 

[greendots]

oops Ive been misreading that :unsure:
I apologize...

Ill be posting in the last poll rather then here- so as to keep this on topic in case im crazy for wanting a traditional layout.

 

[benjiro]

This is a hard thing do decide.

Kagato & Cosurgi both have valid and excellent looking layouts.

The biggest problem being, nobody can feel / experience how the layouts are going to work in practice.

From a logical point of view, i must admit, when i looked at both layouts, Kagato's layout seemed to jump out because of the default comma, period.

So, i've been trying to simulate the keypress's when performing some average tasks, like entering this message. If there is one thing i noticed, is how little you actually use CTRL & ALT in daily tasks ( atleased i do ).

If there is a button that needs to be on the L / R, its the FN key. Its a bit hard for me to explain, but as you use CTRL & ALT so little, and your more likely to use the FN key to access those secondary characters. Remember, we are talking about a Linux device. There are a lot of keys you also use with a bit of advanced Linux usage...

To be honest, has nobody ever mentioned this before?
- L button=FN ( Blue )
- R button = FN2 ( Green )

This allows for 40+ more characters? And it theory, it will keep your rate of typing up. There is no reason to first press FN with your right thumb, and then whatever letter. In reality, it needs to go perform almost simultaneously...

So for me, it looks like like Kagato is the closest for now. Unless somebody likes to make a L / FN, R / FN2 layout

-------

Ps: But, both layouts seem to be missing something. I notice a wifi enable/disable icon, but no BT icon? BT just like Wifi needs to be enabled or disabled to save battery when your not using it.

-------

To answer a question about using the Pandora as mp3 player, and the L / R buttons getting pressed accidently to prev / next song. That can be solved using this system:
- Press & Hold L + Press & Release R: Next
- Press & Hold R + Press & Release L: Prev

Double buttons need to be pressed in locked mode ( turned on software matic? ).

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

I don't see why so many people are overlooking that this isn't about what your personal key configuration is. That's all custom mappable, people, jeez. It's about what should be printed outright on the damn keyboard.

 

[aliking]

I only just noticed that this was a NEW poll about the keyboard.

Incidentally, is cosurgi's layout even possible? I think the only official replies on this all expressed the intent of mapping shoulder buttons for CTRL & ALT.

IIFRC some of the keyboard keys would need to be removed from the keyboard matrix and connected to a GPIO to allow for these?

a

 

[cosurgi]

Ps: But, both layouts seem to be missing something. I notice a wifi enable/disable icon, but no BT icon? BT just like Wifi needs to be enabled or disabled to save battery when your not using it.

This is actually an "airport mode toggle" The WiFi was just a shortcut name. It turns off all broadcasting. To enable disable separately BT/WiFi you need to go to settings menu. Or pressing it could switch between four different states... BT+WiFi+, BT-WiFi+, BT-WiFi-, BT+WiFi- but in this discussion it really doesn't matter.

Incidentally, is cosurgi's layout even possible? I think the only official replies on this all expressed the intent of mapping shoulder buttons for CTRL & ALT.

yep, it is possible, go and read MWeston's post about that

 

[Generica]

I voted for having the ctrl and fn keys on the keyboard, but after looking at how much I use the ctrl and fn keys in comparison with the other keys, I would like to switch my vote. At the moment, that would change it from cosurgi 41, kagato 36 to cosurgi 40, kagato 37. Sorry about that.

 

[kagato]

If there is one thing i noticed, is how little you actually use CTRL & ALT in daily tasks ( atleased i do ).

If there is a button that needs to be on the L / R, its the FN key. Its a bit hard for me to explain, but as you use CTRL & ALT so little, and your more likely to use the FN key to access those secondary characters.
That's actually my reasoning for putting Ctrl & Alt on the shoulder buttons. They're easy to use when you need them; but when you're playing games, you probably don't need them at all, and they aren't taking up keyboard space.

Mapping Fn1/Fn2 to L/R would be cool, but it could interfere with using the shoulder buttons during gameplay. If you unmap them so you can use them as triggers, you'd lose your ability to type punctuation and press system keys.