Keyboard Poll, Finally!

[JayFoxRox]

cosurgi: Keep away the special buttons you added (atleast ß, not sure about Yen, $ and € - I mean, those can be typed out or placed in software) - lets keep this thing a global device without country specific stuff.
Personally I would like to use the shoulders for Ctrl and Alt instead off additional buttons, LMB and RMB could be placed on the digipad (Left / Right) - however, I think there should be no printing on the game controls at all (Except for the select buttons in the center).

 

[cosurgi]

I have added here ß, £, € and ¥ as AltGr on keys S, P, E and Y
I've got a feeling this is going to be obvious and I have lost the plot, but here goes...
How do you access ß, £, € and ¥ ?
I'll vote for anything that gives a Pandora key.
that would be AltGr+Letter, for example: [Fn][Alt][P]=£

cosurgi: Keep away the special buttons you added (atleast ß, not sure about Yen, $ and € - I mean, those can be typed out or placed in software) - lets keep this thing a global device without country specific stuff.

28.57%+26.62%=55.19 % of people voted TO NOT HAVE any of those on the keyboard, and 28.57% of people can accept but DO NOT NEED them. (Which makes 83% of people).

Perhaps I jumped too fast into putting those keys upon Arialia's suggestion. And you are right to not include them.

This was iterated over and over again - I think that we have said everything here that could have been said given so small timeframe. Now the devs will make the final decision.

Also about swapping , . with < > as Kagato suggested (I should have done that earlier...)

 

[quantenmagier]

Well, i like cosurgis last design,
but i changed it a bit, because of the following reasons:
-moved Fn to the left so its easier to press [Fn]+[Ctrl] or [Fn]+[Pandora] (with just one hand)
-made Space smaller to have a dedicated [Alt Gr] Button - why a [Space] that big?
-replaced [Caps] with [Tab] and made [Caps] and some other keys green, i like green, who uses [Caps] more than [Tab], at least who uses [Caps]?

I still wonder if all these Start and menu buttons are used, or if one of it could be scroll lock at least if i use the console...?
..and shouldn't be [+],[-],[*],[/] somewhere near to eachother?

greet
Simon

 

[cosurgi]

-made Space smaller to have a dedicated [Alt Gr] Button - why a [Space] that big?

I am sorry to disappoint you, but we cannot modify hardware. We can only modify what is printed on already existing keys. So we cannot change size or layout of the keys. Only their labels. Do you know that Pandora is already entering serial (first batch of 3000) production? There's no way we could modify hardware.

In fact all this discussion started on assumption that besides hardware - it is still possible to change the key labels. Furtunately, to some extent it is true.

 

[TaG]

Well, i like cosurgis last design,
but i changed it a bit, because of the following reasons:
-moved Fn to the left so its easier to press [Fn]+[Ctrl] or [Fn]+[Pandora] (with just one hand)
-made Space smaller to have a dedicated [Alt Gr] Button - why a [Space] that big?
-replaced [Caps] with [Tab] and made [Caps] and some other keys green, i like green, who uses [Caps] more than [Tab], at least who uses [Caps]?

I still wonder if all these Start and menu buttons are used, or if one of it could be scroll lock at least if i use the console...?
..and shouldn't be [+],[-],[*],[/] somewhere near to eachother?
I don't think you can physically change the space key now.

I really don't like offsetting the bottom row.

I also don't think having Ctrl, Fn and Alt in a row is going to work well.

Damn - I think you have come up with a design using a Pandora key that I cannot vote for. Foiled again.

I response to both yourself and cosurgi, if we start putting currencies on using Alt Gr it seems like going half way back to having the extra accents etc for each key.

 

[Caine]

QUOTE
made Space smaller to have a dedicated [Alt Gr] Button - why a [Space] that big?

It's too late to modify the hardware design.

A dedicated altGr is not really needed. It doesn't clash with alt.

 

[cosurgi]

I response to both yourself and cosurgi, if we start putting currencies on using Alt Gr it seems like going half way back to having the extra accents etc for each key.

yeah, better we settle down on what was already voted for.

 

[Arialia]

None on the poll speak about currency symbols guys !!!
It is different than accented letters

My suggest was the Pandora is also the toy of the devs and i have agree to see ß € ¥ £ on keyboard for thanks them for their works ( € is only the letter i need on those letters )

and don't exagerate guys key ß is only to thanks great german community ( Zodttd, Evildragon and others ) , i don't think needed more than on keyboard ( in fact we can't have other letters /accented on same time for all latin's alphabet)

without that it looks "too much american" and no international keyboard .

Let developpers choose

oh last thing : AltGr was created to replace [Alt][Ctrl] .... read on "Bible PC" 1992 by Michaël Tischer

 

[peca]

As I have look at http://www.gp2x.de/images/Front.jpg picture, I guess that space covers 2 separate buttons on PCB. It only question, if buttons are separate or wired together. Probably separate, doe to no reason have big space on 2 separately wired buttons. But if this really 2 different buttons, may be better have smaller space and 1 more button for other use.

 

[Arialia]

+1 peca : i 'm thinking same than you

Mweston could do this for more options ( space in middle .... ) B)

 

[Esn]

Ok, I decided to vote for Kagato's because it seems the more sensible choice for those who plan to use the keyboard mainly for writing (as far as I'm concerned, non-writing keys may as well be assigned elsewhere), and the secondary symbols are in intuitive locations. All the punctuation keys are on the keyboard itself rather than on the number keys near the screen, which I think would be more comfortable for writing.

Maybe there could be a rundown vote between the 1st and 2nd place winners, just to make the choice really clear? Such a simplified, quick poll will also likely attract more votes than this very-complicated poll has. h34r:

/still have fingers crossed

 

[cosurgi]

Maybe there could be a rundown vote between the 1st and 2nd place winners, just to make the choice really clear? Such a simplified, quick poll will also likely attract more votes than this very-complicated poll has. h34r:

Is it me who is going to make that poll again?? :blink:

Since, there are three questions available, I would put it that way:

1. Do you want currency symbols (AltGr+E=€, AltGr+Y=¥ and AltGr+P=£) ?
- yes
- no

2. Do you accept AltGr+S=ß symbol, to thank the german community for their involvement?
- yes
- no

3. Which is the winning design:

- Kagato (Kagato - do you want to update anything, or put some comments, like I did on my design?)

- cosurgi (with swapped , . and < > as Kagato suggested)

- maybe put Peca's ascetism design also?



Feel free to flame me, for (once again) acting too quickly about making another poll. Maybe it's a stupid idea after all??

EDIT: ouch, we need also a question like:
4. Do you want Pandora symbol on the keyboard in place of Alt (and it would mean "Alt" exactly on the keyboard, just have written Pandora symbol on it)?
- yes
- no

And that's four questions already. We need to reduce that to 3 questions.

 

[JayFoxRox]

1. Yes - But not printed on the keyboard, this can be done in software

2. Yes - But not printed on the keyboard, this can be done in software (It doesn't even have to do with "thanks", I need that key when typing something for school or so, this is why I will define it in software anyway)

3. cosurgi - But there must be some changes, the most important is that printing on the digital pad:
- Looks horrible
- And everyone who owned a TI Calculator before, knows that these will fade out after some years of heavy usage and it looks even worse
- Its a game control and therefore extra labeling shouldn't happen (Still, the buttons should be mapped to the screen light in software)

4. No - I want it instead of the menu button, that would be more logical to me

 

[peca]

1. Yes - But not printed on the keyboard, this can be done in software

+1 (edit: I don't really want it, but it can be on some keys, if it will NOT be printed on key)

2. Yes - But not printed on the keyboard, this can be done in software (It doesn't even have to do with "thanks", I need that key when typing something for school or so, this is why I will define it in software anyway)


+1 (edit: I don't really want it, but it can be on some keys, if it will NOT be printed on key)

...there must be some changes, the most important is that printing on the digital pad...

there is no print on game controls or dpad - it's only for describing desing

4. No - I want it instead of the menu button, that would be more logical to me

4. No - I want it instead of on the Select button, that would be more logical to me

 

[peca]

Cosurgi: I rather make siple poll like this:

• I'd like ALT and CTRL on shoulder buttons, so I prefer Kagato's design (some redesigning of symbols possible)
• I'd like ALT and CTRL on keyboard keys, so I prefer Cosurgi's design (some redesigning of symbols possible)
• I don't like any of major layout designs, so rather prefer Peca's ascetism (some redesigning of symbols doesn't matter)

I really think that currency symbols and German sharp S can be omitted and made just by SW settings. And, what about you?

 

[White Demon]

Do we really need another poll? It's pretty clear that cosurgi's design won by a fair margin.

As for the questions:

1&2: probably better done in software, so users can put it where they feel it should be placed

3: I still prefer kagato's design personally, but since Cosurgi's will be used, please don't print the brightness up & down controls on the dpad, it looks awful, and as JayFoxRox said, will look even worse after it fades/wear off from lots of use.

4. No, Alt should remain. The Pandora button should really be in place of the menu button.

 

[peca]

Do we really need another poll? It's pretty clear that cosurgi's design won by a fair margin.

Yes and no. Fair is, that here are two similarly big group of users. One group of people like Ctrl/Alt on kbd and second doesn't.

I'll buy Pandora regardless what layout devs use, but maybe thay can make two templates? Maybe not, but layout itself is just about keymapping, so SW way. Whole discussion is about what to print on piece of rubber

edit: Huh, it seems that voting about ctrl/alt mapping doesn't correspond with layout design voting. :huh: Or I may be wrong with my math. :blink: But at sum I count 163 votes!

 

[greendots]

2 long threads and a long poll... we don't need another poll.

The devs may not even choose a design from here. As we saw with the logo poll it was not first nor second place that was used, it was third.

The leading layout here has 75 votes out of 163 total (third question only). That is 46% of 163 people. That is 2.5% of 3000 (first batch). That is 0.15% of 50,000 (around the total sale of gpxx's).

Its still hardly a usable layout. The fn action of many buttons lack a logical layout, so the only other reason for placement could be to optimize typing speed... I doubt it. Theres quite a bit of redundancy along the gamepad row which I guess would be great for moving through text and typing. But, when you cant even type period there is a problem some where.

Because of the statistics I am still hopeful that we will have a reasonable keyboard. I realize that I "lost" in the poll, but I'm still sure that pandora needs a qwerty keyboard layout and that means more then just the first 6 keys spelling "qwerty".

 

[Sandman]

I searched the pages of this topic for 'fn lock' and 'fnlock', but didn't find the following remark:
In Cosurgi's layout, there is this button "Fn" at the downright. Its 'Fn' functionality is "Fn lock". How is that supposed to work? Fn-Fn is a bit hard to press and if the plan is 'hold the Fn button for x time', I've got doubt about it, because you can plan on holding the Fn key for normal use, but then decide to not press another button and wammo you got Fn-Lock'ed.

Any light on this?

[EDIT]
I read it again and it says 'modifies next key press', so Fn-Fn it is. And it even said so explicitly...my bad.

 

[TaG]

Please no! Not another fnlocking poll.