It reminds me of the Pandora!

[pyrat]

I think it can be found between the Keyboard threads and the Case color threads

Oh, I've been here not long enough to know the old lore, but I guess those keyboard threads were fought without modern and expensive prototyping gear.
Time to reconsider keyboard layouts? Whats a few years more between the Two Months ? - ducks and covers -

 

[Swordfish II]

I know.
View attachment 36651
Here is a screenshot of dxvk partially running, using a diff. I needed to write a few functions to just be there. But some more profound hcnages are needed to fix the "VK_ERROR_OUT_OF_POOL_MEMORY".
A tried a few thing already. And it's not 1.0 yet, end of story.

Interesting. I took full implementation of 1.0 as full...

Well hopefully it is worked out soon. That would be nice to have.

 

[oskda]

There simply was no single-board computer market to dominate, the market itself was still a niche.

Sometimes the best time to begin domination is when that market starts up. For example Microsoft conquered IBM/compatible PC market from beginning (after tricking IBM). If MS had started its OS years after IBM PC market (obviously PC would have used other OS from begining), things could be different.

The price wasn't even the unique selling point of the first RPi, there were quite a few similarly priced boards already at that time. What made the RPi special was its hardware video decoders, as the SoC was basically designed to be used in video recorders. There simply was no other similar board out there that was able to play h.264 FullHD ...

The price was the best selling point (think IP was give free to RPI Foundation), but there were more points, for example it was some official support for education on UK, etc. All that points feed back, so RPI market was bigger and bigger, and this was also was the best point: each time it was bigger there were more support from people/community (you could find all type of projects) and that feeds back.

I think being able to play H.264 FHD was irrelevant for most projects, or at least a very big part of them, and so not very relevant for RPI success.

In fact I think that RPI SOC being mainly a video SOC (CPU cores were secondary to video/GPU) was worse point of RPI. It was chosen because it was simple old and for free/"charity" (although it could be there was not so "charity" but other interests).

PD: I don't want to argue more on RPI, as it would be off-topic. Lets focus on Pyra

 

[oskda]

That's great to hear. I'm still looking forward to the device as-is, but I'm especially interested in the performance boost that a new CPU board will give us, so I like that options are already being considered.

It may be next CPU board imply more performance but it may be not the case, nor it is the only nor more important point.

Newer SOC may be more efficient (less battery consumption and less heat for same work), be 64-bits, run cooler (and then run at top speed more time until it has to throttle down), have actual support for more OS, newer drivers, more open documentation, more "freedom" (i.e. less undocumented and obscured parts)... There are a lot of points other than simple brute performance.

Think for example «OMAP5 software support stopped - old drivers from TI don't work with modern kernels and as the OMAP5 is not used in any other public Linux device, there's not a lot support either».

And it can be cheap for the SOC itself and for board cost (ED words: OMAP5 is around 50 EUR... more layers and made the design 10x more complex ), so that point is important too.

If you are interested there are unofficial threads about CPU board upgrade. For example: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/the-future-of-pyras-cpu.80526/
but they are "unofficial", i.e. us talking with imagination

 

[Null]

but I guess those keyboard threads were fought without modern and expensive prototyping gear.

Historical recreation:

 

[God Ginrai]

It may be next CPU board imply more performance but it may be not the case, nor it is the only nor more important point.

Newer SOC may be more efficient (less battery consumption and less heat for same work), be 64-bits, run cooler (and then run at top speed more time until it has to throttle down), have actual support for more OS, newer drivers, more open documentation, more "freedom" (i.e. less undocumented and obscured parts)... There are a lot of points other than simple brute performance.

Think for example «OMAP5 software support stopped - old drivers from TI don't work with modern kernels and as the OMAP5 is not used in any other public Linux device, there's not a lot support either».

And it can be cheap for the SOC itself and for board cost (ED words: OMAP5 is around 50 EUR... more layers and made the design 10x more complex ), so that point is important too.

If you are interested there are unofficial threads about CPU board upgrade. For example: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/the-future-of-pyras-cpu.80526/
but they are "unofficial", i.e. us talking with imagination

Pretty much anything that ED could get his hands on now that is worth spending development costs towards is more performant than the OMAP5 already.

-God Ginrai

 

[Kev2442]

I know.

Spoiler

View attachment 36651

Here is a screenshot of dxvk partially running, using a diff. I needed to write a few functions to just be there. But some more profound hcnages are needed to fix the "VK_ERROR_OUT_OF_POOL_MEMORY".
A tried a few thing already. And it's not 1.0 yet, end of story.

FlatOut 2, woot !
How does it run ? Not that great I suppose, especially as a WIP. The PSP port probably runs circles around it but it's nice to see a childhood hero again

 

[Swordfish II]

This speculation is fun. If you want your speculation to come true though, let's help ED sell 100 000 units.

I think once it comes out and people can tinker with it things will improve and more units will sell

 

[F_Slim]

But as the OMAP5 is only used in automotive, no one except for us cared about that idle mode.

This surprises me a bit, since in automotive there are very strict requirements on power consumption and so on. I would have expected that an idle mode is a must.
(On the other hand there is also the concept of a small chip handling the low level stuff like power, which will just shut down the CPU alltogether).

 

[matzesu]

I suspect the Automotive OMAP 5 based computers are for the not that expensive models:
I heard that the Tesla is even running some games ^^


Send from something, i guess ^^

 

[Zwerg01]

So if we use a common SoC which has good Linux support by the manufacturer and the community and which is available as consumer version (not industrial one), development of the CPU board will take a LOT less time.
Instead of 6 months pure layouting, it could probably be done in 1 month.

Nikolaus was even thinking about creating a quick iMX Board that fits our mainboard for a test

Osborne effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pretty much anything that ED could get his hands on now that is worth spending development costs towards is more performant than the OMAP5 already.

-God Ginrai

Why should i buy a pyra with OMAP5 with hardware bugs? I wait a few more month to get thy pyra with the i.MX 8. Performance and battery life will be increased.

 

[pyrat]

Why should i buy a pyra with OMAP5 with hardware bugs? I wait a few more month to get thy pyra with the i.MX 8. Performance and battery life will be increased.

Because:
- there's no Pyra with i.MX8 (not yet, not sure when, maybe never). It hasn't been announced in any way.
- the i.MX8 might have some bug we don't know just like we didn't know years ago that the OMAP5432 had a bug
- If you get the Pyra now, and the bug is too bad for you, you can still upgrade the Pyra to a better CPU in the future (not sure, but aprox just as sure as you being able to buy a Pyra with another CPU in the future).
- you're buying hardware, not stock, stock options or futures on derivatives of funds of whoknowswhat ? Look at what use you'll get today from what you can buy today.

See what's available today and buy what you prefer. If you don't need it today, don't buy it today.
But not to buy it today because there might be something else on sale tomorrow is wishful thinking.
Don't get me wrong. Not buying things it's ok. You don't need an excuse not to buy something.
But that's a little overcomplicated excuse for one you don't need.

I'm not so sure the Osborne effect applies to a device that can be upgraded to a future model, even for buyers of the current model.
But even if Osborne effect wouldn't apply, it would still be creating unfounded hopes on people.
Anyway, you are right. We don't need the Osborne effect, and we shouldn't talk of future upgrades until they're likely.

 

[Swordfish II]

Osborne effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why should i buy a pyra with OMAP5 with hardware bugs? I wait a few more month to get thy pyra with the i.MX 8. Performance and battery life will be increased.

1. No idea if/when an upgrade will come out.
2. ED could always sell the upgrade board seperately requiring you to buy the original Pyra AND the upgrade cpu. (Not saying he will, just could)

 

[Null]

I've rediscovered some more footage from the Keyboard Layout Wars.

https://invidious.13ad.de/watch?v=dsq4cLwwFj4

 

[RZR]

1. No idea if/when an upgrade well come out.
2. ED could always sell the upgrade board seperately requiring you to buy the original Pyra AND the upgrade cpu. (Not saying he will, just could)

3. No guarantee the price of the upgraded Pyra (if it ever happened) will be as low as the preorder Pyra.

 

[pyrat]

2. ED could always sell the upgrade board seperately requiring you to buy the original Pyra AND the upgrade cpu. (Not saying he will, just could)

Indeed. Now that you make me think of that...
In fact (not saying it's likely, just possible), ED might not be able to sell more Pyras by the time an upgraded CPU board is on sale (or later).
So it might come to pass, that anyone who already has a Pyra can upgrade it but people not having one can't get a new one with the new CPU.
I'm thinking of the case that some component in the Pyra can no longer be sourced (for instance the LCD), so new Pyras can't be build, but upgrade CPU boards can be manufactured and sold.
In that case the market might be too small for upgraded CPU boards, and then there wouldn't be any new CPU board likely, but who knows,
the problem could happen once the new CPU boards (and Pyras with the new CPUs) have been selling for some time,
but suddenly no more Pyras can be built.

This scenario is very unlikely, normally either the sales are not good enough, and the Pyra is abandoned or the sales are good enough and
some solution is found for continuing to sell Pyras or successor devices (you redesign the Pyra with a different LCD but the same screen interface to the CPU board for example).

I only mean that we don't know the future. Anything is possible. Better not to speculate.

 

[God Ginrai]

Why should i buy a pyra with OMAP5 with hardware bugs? I wait a few more month to get thy pyra with the i.MX 8. Performance and battery life will be increased.

Then don't. That's your decision to make.

-God Ginrai

 

[matzesu]

If nobody buys a omap 5 Pyra, there want be a new cpu board, because the openpandora gmbh will be out of mony,..
I think im fine whit boot up and shoot down when i leave the Debian for a longer time..

Also like i said, even if the Pyra ditnt get in low power Mode when you close the lid , it should need less current because the screen takes the most electrical Energie..

So if you just need to shange you Position between the waiting bench on the trainstation and the train, it should be fine..

 

[levi]

All classic computers had hardware bugs, from the old HCF (halt and catch fire) command of the original PETs, to missing operations in early 6502s in the BBC Micro and C64 because they turned out not to work properly. This bug just means the unit may be slightly more power hungry in certain situations (mainly when it's idle) so it might need recharging every night or something, so it doesn't seem quite as serious to me even.

 

[Null]

All classic computers had hardware bugs

Some things never change.