It reminds me of the Pandora!

[oskda]

Wow, the OMAP 5 is actualy more expensive than an entire Raspberry Pi 4! Which also has a faster CPU afaik (ARM Cortex-A72). And I'm not an expert but I would say, your CPU board is also to expensive for what it is.

Raspberry are really overrated.

GPU is really bad. It has been improved on RPI 4 over previous model, but I think it continues well under other GPUs in ARM SOCs.

But the worst part of them is that its SOC isn't a normal SOC in the sense of CPU cores plus an assistant/secondary GPU but THE OPPOSITE way: it is a GPU with assisant/secondary CPU cores. It sounds strange, but it is that strange way.

Raspbery Pi SOC was mainly a display SOC (for multimedia and other visual functions). When you boot up that SOC the GPU loads its own OS, obviously a closed and undocumented software, and that OS is on all time controlling machine, later the user OS is loaded for secondary CPU cores, but GPU OS remains on and with higher priority.

Who controls that GPU OS, and its backdoors (and/or know its bugs) can control over those computers independently the user OS you choose, in the same sense who control Intel Management Engine can control your PC (if it is Intel¹ based) independently what OS you install. Is this casual? I don't know, but it is curious so strange SOC have taken single-board computer market.

For me that is a displeased design. Obviously most people use their RPI in the same way their PC: they don't know other CPU/SO/etc exist inside them and over OS/CPU user.

¹: Of course, AMD has equivalent system, the same for Chinese x86.

 

[oskda]

Edit: Also Eben Upton is a higher up at Broadcom, so I'd be very suprised if he didn't get a discount on the Broadcom manufactured components.

Initially it was a charitable thing, Broadcom gave up that SOC at cost, with no royalty payment. At the same time it seems it was an outdated design ever in that moment (it is supposed it was monetized time ago).

On other side I don't know if finally it was real charity or if they wanted to control (or be biggest with much difference) single-board computer market, as Intel did with PC market, as they finally did. And the best way to control it is giving it at a price and volume no other can compete (and at the same time with a permanent closed OS always on).

Raspberry Pi market is so big that all other single-board computers go pale.

 

[directive0]

I just have two questions;

Has assembly begun and will I get my Pyra soon?

 

[Null]

On other side I don't know if finally it was real charity or if they wanted to control (or be biggest with much difference) single-board computer market

My guess is that the move benefited their bottom line + their shareholders, and that's why they did it.

 

[levi]

The first rPi was a generation beyond stuff like the Sheevaplug, but clocked at slightly more than half the clock speed. What it was originally was more than anything, cheap, at least until you added the cost of cases, power supplies and hats and things.

 

[Null]

I just have two questions;

Has assembly begun and will I get my Pyra soon?

It reminds me of the Pandora!

The survey about the colours should have all been sent out to your registered email account. If you have a preorder you should have received it already (twice if you're German, the first being blank). If you only have a pre-preorder still you have some work to do. I've preordered in may...

pyra-handheld.com

 

[fusion_power]

A72 isn't particularly faster than the A15, just more power efficient and the Pi4 has 4 of them. It was also not out at the time of Pyra's initial development so I'm not sure the point of the outcry here...

I picked the Pi 4 as example because I thought that the OMAP 5 and the one in the Pi4 are both "1.5GHz low power CPU's", one with 2, the other with 4 cores. And of course the newer one was not available when the Pyra Development has begun, it was just an example.

Someone should go through this thread and others and collect all the questions and complaints around hardware and create an FAQ because when Pyra releases, a huge chunk of the feedback will be this kind of stuff.

I thought we already have an FAQ and an FAQ Thread...somewhere.

The rapsberry is build in hundreds of thousands or millions. That is what lowers the price.
Whoever wants a rapsberry can buy it easily. We don't need Evil Dragon for that. But I'm not interested anyway in a SOC that needs blobs to boot.

I actualy only thought about the SoC of the Pi...in the Pyra. You say it, they have millions of these, maybe asking gently to give up a few for a fair price? Without any bureaucracy in best case of course. Its more likely that ED will ever get other SoCs that way, than from the chip manufacturers directly due their often high quantity regulations.

Raspberry are really overrated.

As long as it works at the end...

Raspbery Pi SOC was mainly a display SOC (for multimedia and other visual functions). When you boot up that SOC the GPU loads its own OS, obviously a closed and undocumented software, and that OS is on all time controlling machine, later the user OS is loaded for secondary CPU cores, but GPU OS remains on and with higher priority.

Again, as long as it works at the end and you don't have to deal with major hardware/software bugs...

 

[Letalis Sonus]

On other side I don't know if finally it was real charity or if they wanted to control (or be biggest with much difference) single-board computer market, as Intel did with PC market, as they finally did.

There simply was no single-board computer market to dominate, the market itself was still a niche. The price wasn't even the unique selling point of the first RPi, there were quite a few similarly priced boards already at that time. What made the RPi special was its hardware video decoders, as the SoC was basicallly designed to be used in video recorders. There simply was no other similar board out there that was able to play h.264 FullHD videos despite its weak CPU, which made it very popular as a cheap and versatile multimedia PC. Without this it would've been nothing but one of many.

 

[PowerGod]

I thought we already have an FAQ and an FAQ Thread...somewhere.

I think it can be found between the Keyboard threads and the Case color threads

 

[Null]

FAQ and an FAQ Thread

FAQ + Happy hunting.

 

[levi]

It reminds me of the Pandora!

The survey about the colours should have all been sent out to your registered email account. If you have a preorder you should have received it already (twice if you're German, the first being blank). If you only have a pre-preorder still you have some work to do. I've preordered in may...

pyra-handheld.com

Yes, though he wrote that before he discovered the newly painted cases weren't up to scratch. The case painting company apparently think they're figured out what went wrong, but that's the last we heard on that. Also he should have boxes now, which sounds update worthy to me (even though some have expressed a wish not to see the box before it lands on their doorstep).

 

[Null]

The case painting company apparently think they're figured out what went wrong

Not enough of the following is my guess.

 

[God Ginrai]

One OMAP5 is around 50 EUR.
That's a lot compared to other chips (Rockchips are around 8 EUR).
The costs of the full CPU board (12 layer PCB, 4GB RAM, 32GB eMMC, PALMAS, etc.) is around 180 EUR, so 130 EUR without the OMAP5.

Development costs for the CPU board were around 150,000 EUR.

However, what you shouldn't forget is:
* CPU board was a lot more complex than planned due to the OMAP5430 not being available. This added more layers and made the design 10x more complex.
* It was incredible hard to determine whether known bugs are hardware or software due to the fact that the OMAP5 software support stopped - old drivers from TI don't work with modern kernels and as the OMAP5 is not used in any other public Linux device, there's not a lot support either.

So if we use a common SoC which has good Linux support by the manufacturer and the community and which is available as consumer version (not industrial one), development of the CPU board will take a LOT less time.
Instead of 6 months pure layouting, it could probably be done in 1 month.

Nikolaus was even thinking about creating a quick iMX Board that fits our mainboard for a test

That's great to hear. I'm still looking forward to the device as-is, but I'm especially interested in the performance boost that a new CPU board will give us, so I like that options are already being considered.

-God Ginrai

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Nikolaus was even thinking about creating a quick iMX Board that fits our mainboard for a test

Would it be possible to buy these, if it works well?

 

[Swordfish II]

Raspberry are really overrated.

GPU is really bad. It has been improved on RPI 4 over previous model, but I think it continues well under other GPUs in ARM SOCs.

But the worst part of them is that its SOC isn't a normal SOC in the sense of CPU cores plus an assistant/secondary GPU but THE OPPOSITE way: it is a GPU with assisant/secondary CPU cores. It sounds strange, but it is that strange way.

Raspbery Pi SOC was mainly a display SOC (for multimedia and other visual functions). When you boot up that SOC the GPU loads its own OS, obviously a closed and undocumented software, and that OS is on all time controlling machine, later the user OS is loaded for secondary CPU cores, but GPU OS remains on and with higher priority.

Who controls that GPU OS, and its backdoors (and/or know its bugs) can control over those computers independently the user OS you choose, in the same sense who control Intel Management Engine can control your PC (if it is Intel¹ based) independently what OS you install. Is this casual? I don't know, but it is curious so strange SOC have taken single-board computer market.

For me that is a displeased design. Obviously most people use their RPI in the same way their PC: they don't know other CPU/SO/etc exist inside them and over OS/CPU user.

¹: Of course, AMD has equivalent system, the same for Chinese x86.

Eh the pi's are good for what they are, and the pi 4 has Vulkan 1.0 support in mesa testing.

I have been using them as cheap desktops for years.

 

[ptitSeb]

Eh the pi's are good for what they are, and the pi 4 has Vulkan 1.0 support in mesa testing.

The Vulkan driver is not 1.0 yet, there is still some work to get there. Beside samples and specificaly tuned quake build, you cannot run many thing yet (like dxvk for example).

 

[Swordfish II]

The Vulkan driver is not 1.0 yet, there is still some work to get there. Beside samples and specificaly tuned quake build, you cannot run many thing yet (like dxvk for example).

Now we are passing over 100,000 tests, and have implemented the full Vulkan 1.0 API. Only a handful of CTS tests remain to be fixed.

Vulkan update: merged to Mesa - Raspberry Pi

The Vulkan driver for Raspberry Pi 4 has been merged with Mesa upstream, becoming one of the official Vulkan Mesa drivers.

www.raspberrypi.org

 

[matzesu]

Ok, I thought the Rasberry Pie where like the Electronic Parts of the Pandora, but whiteout the case and Display and Keyboard contact but whit more power and HDMI and more Ports..
Ditnt know it’s that diverent..

50 € for the OMAP 5 sounds quite expensive, expectly whit the Bug ..

Im still wonder how easy a Home based CPU Board Change will be..
should the whole community and devs jump on the new CPU Board in a few years, I think I also have to change..


Send from something, i guess ^^

 

[NetBLOKS]

Ok, I thought the Rasberry Pie where like the Electronic Parts of the Pandora, but whiteout the case and Display and Keyboard contact but whit more power and HDMI and more Ports..
Ditnt know it’s that diverent..

50 € for the OMAP 5 sounds quite expensive, expectly whit the Bug ..

Im still wonder how easy a Home based CPU Board Change will be..
should the whole community and devs jump on the new CPU Board in a few years, I think I also have to change..


Send from something, i guess ^^

I am pretty sure, that ED will offer a repacement service for a reasonable fee for people who don't want to change the board themselves.
But I think it should be fairly easy to do.

 

[ptitSeb]

Vulkan update: merged to Mesa - Raspberry Pi

The Vulkan driver for Raspberry Pi 4 has been merged with Mesa upstream, becoming one of the official Vulkan Mesa drivers.

www.raspberrypi.org

I know.

Here is a screenshot of dxvk partially running, using a diff. I needed to write a few functions to just be there. But some more profound hcnages are needed to fix the "VK_ERROR_OUT_OF_POOL_MEMORY".
A tried a few thing already. And it's not 1.0 yet, end of story.