With full steam into the new year!

matzesu

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In about 4 1/2 Weeks, i have my Nintendo Switch, wich will take quite a lot of the time, until the Pyra comes out.., also i have lots of books too read, , (Mr Mercedes, Finders Keeper, Mind Controll, "he is back", Illuninati, Da vinci code, Inverno, and the verry big Ken Follet Medievil Epos: The Pillars of the World..
Also im a Second Batch Pandora Preeorderer, i know how to wait..

Take the time you need to make the Pyra great, (again),

Im also would be happy to have my Pyra yesterday, but i would rather have a Pyra, which works whitout issues, than a rushed once..
 

hns

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Stretch? Squeeze is very old ;)
Was a typo. I meant Stretch... I am using Debian for so a long time that I have typed "Squeeze" so often so that my spell-checker doesn't complain :)
Another option would be to rebase on Devuan, wo are working on a Debian overlay that replaces all packages that hard depend on systemd with versions that don't. They also provide armel and armhf binaries. Moving from Debian jessie to Devuan jessie is quite easy.
Well, our Debian with systemd removed works fine - except for this popup (I think it is even only for LXDE and not for XFCE4) which is annoying for screen shots (unless the popup is closed manually) but makes no other trouble. So why change the car brand if the ash tray is full :)
@hns:
When I set that one up I started LXDE via nodm [1] and the message doesn't come up.
Ah, interesting! I didn't know that a 'nodm' package exists. Debian is wonderful. Thanks!
What is your udev problem about? I didn't see any dependency problems.
apt-get install for some systemd component complained that udev is not installable although it is already installed. But this may not be worth looking at.
Well it's not what it's going to ship with, plus i think he said he only uses it to generate bootstraps...

We've had a viable jessie image forever and aTc will have testing/stretch image ready in the near future.

zmatt has been playing with his own stretch image on the OMAP5 for a while now.
Exactly. PyraOS is built separately and will be based on whatever base you like to have.
 
S

sulu

Guest
apt-get install for some systemd component complained that udev is not installable although it is already installed. But this may not be worth looking at.
I can't reproduce that without more specific info, so this is more of a general hint:

In contrast to previous Debian releases, the udev package is built from the systemd sources and there are some dependencies between udev and systemd. I've seen you have jessie-backports in your sources.list. There are packages for systemd and udev in the regular (i.e. non-backports) and in the backports repos. Of course these have different versions and some packages depend on specific versions.

Now, if you want to install a package that is only available in the backports, Debian will by default still try to install the dependencies of that package from the regular repos, because backports implicitly have a lower pinning priority. If the dependencies of the backports package can't be fulfilled by the regular repos, the installation will fail due to missing dependencies.
You can override this by giving apt the option -t jessie-backports , which will cause apt to try to fulfill any dependencies from the backports.
 

Grench

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Apparently, I didn't boot our OS image but a minimal image from Nikolaus (which shows a pretty empty LXDE desktop without TILER enabled).
View attachment 29975
It has been a week, so I'll ask.

Did you ever have a chance to install the proper OS image? I'm sure we would all love to see more of this running/working near-final prototype in action.
 

ible

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oh, and, of course, showing the handoff from EvilDragon to zmatt (or whoever it's going to), with sparks flying, ghosts emerging, and that sort of thing.
 
S

sulu

Guest
Did you ever have a chance to install the proper OS image? I'm sure we would all love to see more of this running/working near-final prototype in action.
In case you're stuck with the test image for some reason (e.g. because it comes with your prototype), do this to get a proper LXDE desktop:

1. fix the display rotation in software:
create a file like this (ref: [1]):
Code:
# cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/1-fbdev.conf
Section "Device"
   Identifier "LCD"
   Driver "fbdev"
   Option "fbdev" "/dev/fb0"
   Option "Rotate" "CW"
EndSection
2. "unblacklist" systemd (a lot of packages depend on it) by removing this file:
/etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd

3. Get rid of the pid warning popup:
a. remove this line from /etc/inittab:
Code:
X1:23:respawn:/usr/bin/startx
b. install a login manager like nodm (if you don't want a login mask) or slim (if you want one).

All three items work for me if I boot the test image on my Cubieboard2.
(Well, of course #1 actually "breaks" MY display because the image that is displayed on my TV now stands on it's side. But it will cause the image on the Pyra display to be upright.)

[1] http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/285586/can-i-change-the-x-rotate-the-xf86-video-fbdev-during-execution
 

TrashyMG

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@sulu , The OMAP5 uses TILER, I don't think fbdev works or it's slow. Currently the only way of specifying rotation is in the DT binary, the rest is a bit hacky.
 
S

sulu

Guest
My bad! I wrongly remembered, that ED did not only put a generic rootfs on his prototype, but also a rather generic kernel. At least I somehow assumed it runs fbdev.

btw:
What's the deal with this video [1]? It shows a desktop of a system running a kernel called "4.7.0-letux-pyra-r+".
Is it your's? The player name in the Starcraft video of the same youtuber might suggest that.

Code:
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JgXfiKglfQ
 

TrashyMG

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What's the deal with this video [1]? It shows a desktop of a system running a kernel called "4.7.0-letux-pyra-r+".
Yeah that's my video.

I'm using that specific older kernel that has all the right Device Tree hacks to let TILER rotate the screen. It was put together by aTc and included some changes from zmatt. I'm also using fbturbo not fbdev as an Xorg driver. It's also not the kernel with all the latest fixes for the actual pyra. there are newer Kernels out in the wild.

zmatt and aTc could explain all this better than I can, I just make videos of it working.
 

Jan-Nik

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Maybe I missed it, but was there an answer to sulu's question?

I don't want to get into one of these boring lengthy arguments, but was there a technical reason for not enabling Systemd on the Pyra, apart from having a minimal test image?
 
S

sulu

Guest
Maybe I missed it, but was there an answer to sulu's question?
Sort of.
On the pictures of the Pyra prototype we see a rootfs running that hns uses for testing. This rootfs dates back to a time when there was no Systemd. And since it is easier for him to debug SysVinit than Systemd there was no reason for him to change the init system. To make sure this change doesn't happen accidentally he blacklisted Systemd, which turned out to be a bit overzealous.

We don't know yet if the final Pyra OS will ship with or without Systemd as an init system, but from our POV as end users/customers it doesn't really matter beyond personal preference as long as it works.
So currently there is no reason to assume, that there will be Systemd-related problems on the Pyra. To be precise though, there is no proof either, that there won't be any problems.
So the strict answer to my question was: "No."
 

TrashyMG

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So currently there is no reason to assume, that there will be Systemd-related problems on the Pyra. To be precise though, there is no proof either, that there won't be any problems.
So the strict answer to my question was: "No."
We've been running Systemd on the devboards since jessie was testing. aTc plans on using systemd, having him rewrite all the init stuff at this point seems like more work.
 
S

sulu

Guest
@TrashyMG:
Can you please test if phonefsod [1] and libphone-ui-shr [2] run stable on the devboard?
Without a GSM modem you won't be able to fully test the software of course, but I'm mainly interested in knowing whether phonefsod and the underlying fso daemons run at all and whether or not you can make SHR crash or show otherwise strange behavior by randomly clicking buttons in the UI.

[1] https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=phonefsod&searchon=names&exact=1&suite=all&section=all
[2] https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libphone-ui-shr&searchon=names&exact=1&suite=all&section=all
 

Jan-Nik

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Thanks for clarifying.

I'd count myself to the users who would like to have systemd, as I'm used to it on the desktop :) Also boot times should be better than with SysVinit, shouldn't they?
 

slaeshjag

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Depends. On my desktop, systemd takes about three times as long to boot as compared to sysvinit. On a friends laptop running ubuntu, systemd is slower than upstart. But supposidely, it's quicker for some. I consider boot times a stupid argument for one or the other, computers today are so fast anyway that nobody cares. Only if you do development work that requires you to reboot tens of times a day wouldv I consider it an argument, while most users of the pyra probably will play the endless game of plugging in the charger before the battery running out :p

Systemd happened to be what was used to set up the pyra-specific customizations, so that's what'll ship.
 
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