Here Is What Will Be Happening.

[hch]

I don't know why everybody here seems to be so upset. sorry to say it, but this is *exactly* what i expected from this company (and what i predicted months ago if anyone cares). keep in mind, that

.) they were the cheap company
.) they already got all the money
.) they are in china, so probably safely behind a legal firewall.

of course they don't care. of course they will 'bend the truth' in communication. and - and this is the point that noone here seems to mind - of course they won't change a iota. why should they?

if you now start thinking about rev.4-5-6-7 cases, *please* keep in mind that
.) each new revision takes about 2 months
.) it will not necessarily be better than the previous one

this company can not be trusted. is this lesson still not understood?

 

[Rathum]

Well, I'm going to be positive. Here's my prophecy:

1. Come Monday, the Factory will explain that they used recycled plastic, hence the discoloration, and that the full finishing process was not applied as they wanted to get it out the door to make sure everything else was correct. The hinge crack was caused by [insert harmless explanation].
2. 500-1,000 cases are ordered and shipped out. After the first few dozen go through the machine, the process really kicks in and the flaws are ironed out for all remaining cases.
3. ????
4. Profit.

I like your prophecy. Seriously, something tells me they should just bash out 1,000 of them and see what happens. Of course, it's easy for me to say that.

Prophecy?

I forget if I actually ever said I would take one of the imperfect ones, but I will.

 

[shunun]

I don't know why everybody here seems to be so upset. sorry to say it, but this is *exactly* what i expected from this company (and what i predicted months ago if anyone cares). keep in mind, that

.) they were the cheap company
.) they already got all the money
.) they are in china, so probably safely behind a legal firewall.

of course they don't care. of course they will 'bend the truth' in communication. and - and this is the point that noone here seems to mind - of course they won't change a iota. why should they?

if you now start thinking about rev.4-5-6-7 cases, *please* keep in mind that
.) each new revision takes about 2 months
.) it will not necessarily be better than the previous one

this company can not be trusted. is this lesson still not understood?

I completely agree.

Just start with case production!

 

[traylorpark]

...Also, it is still early to start jumping on the panic bandwagon. A day has passed over a weekend when no one can get answers. Let's not start 50 more topics with this kind of talk. Craig's plan hasn't changed one bit yet and we are still seeing what can be made next week and how long it will take.

Everybody read this and go on with your weekend as usual please.

We'll talk again on Monday <_<

 

[TrashyMG]

I don't know why everybody here seems to be so upset. sorry to say it, but this is *exactly* what i expected from this company (and what i predicted months ago if anyone cares). keep in mind, that

.) they were the cheap company
.) they already got all the money
.) they are in china, so probably safely behind a legal firewall.

of course they don't care. of course they will 'bend the truth' in communication. and - and this is the point that noone here seems to mind - of course they won't change a iota. why should they?

if you now start thinking about rev.4-5-6-7 cases, *please* keep in mind that
.) each new revision takes about 2 months
.) it will not necessarily be better than the previous one

this company can not be trusted. is this lesson still not understood?

For one your attitude stinks, pointing blame is easy when your on the sidelines. It's not fun being the one up front making decisions in situations like this, compounded by being bombarded with people like you who shove the problem in their face.

Secondly it impedes business screwing with the customer, why risk upsetting the customer when they can bring in more future business. I'm fairly sure the cases where just raw samples showing off that the changes that needed to be done with rev2 case where done and they used recycled materials, most likely if they run in Full production mode it will be fine.. I hope. If you are truly right then have a cookie.

What ever decisions the OP group makes, it will still have to wait for Monday when they can reach the Molding company.

 

[madcad77]

From what I have seen of these new mouldings, your moulding company needs to run a small batch to validate thier parameters, things like mould temperature, injection pressures, cycle times etc.

These coupled with venting added in the correct positions (tiny modifications 1- 2 days max) will sort out your sinkages, short fills etc.

The greasy finish you mention is most probably due to excessive release agent used when running the mould for the first time (reduces the risk of the moulding sticking in the tool).

I have been designing plastic components for over 10 years now, and alot of your issues with Chinese moulding companies are well known, regardless which company you chose over there, they just work diferently to us.

I am very optimistic though, when these parts are run to the correct production processes, perhaps with extra venting, your cosmetic issues will be resolved.

 

[fiori_musicali]

Is it anyhow possible that the latest case samples were only supposed to demonstrate to MWeston that the previous issues have been fixed, not caring about the general quality of the samples themselves? I mean seriously, what the FUCK would they think sending cracked and generally dirty-looking, sloppy sample pieces after their proud guarantees of perfection that they've been able to achieve on this last revision? It's just incomprehensible.

 

[hch]

I don't know why everybody here seems to be so upset. sorry to say it, but this is *exactly* what i expected from this company (and what i predicted months ago if anyone cares). keep in mind, that

.) they were the cheap company
.) they already got all the money
.) they are in china, so probably safely behind a legal firewall.

of course they don't care. of course they will 'bend the truth' in communication. and - and this is the point that noone here seems to mind - of course they won't change a iota. why should they?

if you now start thinking about rev.4-5-6-7 cases, *please* keep in mind that
.) each new revision takes about 2 months
.) it will not necessarily be better than the previous one

this company can not be trusted. is this lesson still not understood?

For one your attitude stinks,

thank you

pointing blame is easy when your on the sidelines.

i am not pointing blame. i try to get a message across that i think is essential.

It's not fun being the one up front making decisions in situations like this, compounded by being bombarded with people like you who shove the problem in their face.

so is it better then to live in a dream alternate universe in which cheap companies in a distant cheap-labour country suddenly wake up to their 'moral duty' or something? the dev team tried for a year and look what they have got for it. being firmly rooted in reality is the necessary step 0 for rational decisions.

Secondly it impedes business screwing with the customer, why risk upsetting the customer when they can bring in more future business. I'm fairly sure the cases where just raw samples showing off that the changes that needed to be done with rev2 case where done and they used recycled materials, most likely if they run in Full production mode it will be fine.. I hope.

yeah, you hope. i rest my case.

If you are truly right then have a cookie. What ever decisions the OP group makes, it will still have to wait for Monday when they can reach the Molding company.

you know what I think the problem is? all the devs are seriously nice people. they have an attitude, morals and trust. usually such people expect to meet with the same type of people in business life. and then they take a long time to realize that it is not so. that there are crooks, liars, money-makers. i had to learn this lesson myself and it breaks my heart to see this enthusiastic team stranded in this situation and obviously pressured by their loyal (and mostly inexperienced) fanbase that they also depend on financially to a certain degree to try the impossible. in some areas they can overstretch their own resources and work some miracles - but not here.

i am also not trying to push for any particular course of action. it's a tough decision they have to take. especially with their openness. after all, i would find it perfectly ok to get a case like it is - we first batchers are early adopters. i also don't mind waiting longer. all i want to get across is, that sending another email to the company and waiting another 2 months for a miracle to happen is probably not going to help.

ah, what am i ranting about. when you'll have reached my age i guess you'll understand.

 

[bzar]

(long post)

I completely agree.

 

[Consequence_9]

Is it anyhow possible that the latest case samples were only supposed to demonstrate to MWeston that the previous issues have been fixed, not caring about the general quality of the samples themselves? I mean seriously, what the FUCK would they think sending cracked and generally dirty-looking, sloppy sample pieces after their proud guarantees of perfection that they've been able to achieve on this last revision? It's just incomprehensible.

exactly! It's like a bad joke or something. 'We'll thank them', yah, i kno just how we can thank them....

From what I have seen of these new mouldings, your moulding company needs to run a small batch to validate thier parameters, things like mould temperature, injection pressures, cycle times etc.

These coupled with venting added in the correct positions (tiny modifications 1- 2 days max) will sort out your sinkages, short fills etc.

The greasy finish you mention is most probably due to excessive release agent used when running the mould for the first time (reduces the risk of the moulding sticking in the tool).

I have been designing plastic components for over 10 years now, and alot of your issues with Chinese moulding companies are well known, regardless which company you chose over there, they just work diferently to us.

I am very optimistic though, when these parts are run to the correct production processes, perhaps with extra venting, your cosmetic issues will be resolved.

Thank you for registering just to post that! Very informative & constructive, this is the kind of info that is really good to have. Stuff like this can help MWeston ask more targeted questions towards the mould company, which can be vital seeing as these guys are hard to get a hold of for any length of time. 'preciate it! =]

 

[Pleng]

What kind of a bullshit contract did you guys make with the Chinese charlatans? There should be explicit conditions in the contract regarding delays like this. Please note that the cases were claimed to be ready by mid-September.

A contract with a Chinese company is worthless. Because if it comes to legal action there's nothing anybody can do. The more overbearing the OP team get, the less inclined the (now fully paid) company will be to assist.

As for Fatih going over to China, as some people have suggested: Even if the OP team do hold an address for the company you can be sure that it's not the actual address of where the cases are being made. And requesting the address would more than likely cause more problems than it could resolve.

As I said before, if the company decide they've had enough of OP they will simply stop responding to calls and emails. And there will be NO cases. At all.

 

[TrashyMG]

From what I have seen of these new mouldings, your moulding company needs to run a small batch to validate thier parameters, things like mould temperature, injection pressures, cycle times etc.

These coupled with venting added in the correct positions (tiny modifications 1- 2 days max) will sort out your sinkages, short fills etc.

The greasy finish you mention is most probably due to excessive release agent used when running the mould for the first time (reduces the risk of the moulding sticking in the tool).

I have been designing plastic components for over 10 years now, and alot of your issues with Chinese moulding companies are well known, regardless which company you chose over there, they just work diferently to us.

I am very optimistic though, when these parts are run to the correct production processes, perhaps with extra venting, your cosmetic issues will be resolved.

Finally a constructive post..

 

[TrashyMG]

I don't know why everybody here seems to be so upset. sorry to say it, but this is *exactly* what i expected from this company (and what i predicted months ago if anyone cares). keep in mind, that

.) they were the cheap company
.) they already got all the money
.) they are in china, so probably safely behind a legal firewall.

of course they don't care. of course they will 'bend the truth' in communication. and - and this is the point that noone here seems to mind - of course they won't change a iota. why should they?

if you now start thinking about rev.4-5-6-7 cases, *please* keep in mind that
.) each new revision takes about 2 months
.) it will not necessarily be better than the previous one

this company can not be trusted. is this lesson still not understood?

For one your attitude stinks,

thank you

pointing blame is easy when your on the sidelines.

i am not pointing blame. i try to get a message across that i think is essential.

It's not fun being the one up front making decisions in situations like this, compounded by being bombarded with people like you who shove the problem in their face.

so is it better then to live in a dream alternate universe in which cheap companies in a distant cheap-labour country suddenly wake up to their 'moral duty' or something? the dev team tried for a year and look what they have got for it. being firmly rooted in reality is the necessary step 0 for rational decisions.

Secondly it impedes business screwing with the customer, why risk upsetting the customer when they can bring in more future business. I'm fairly sure the cases where just raw samples showing off that the changes that needed to be done with rev2 case where done and they used recycled materials, most likely if they run in Full production mode it will be fine.. I hope.

yeah, you hope. i rest my case.

If you are truly right then have a cookie. What ever decisions the OP group makes, it will still have to wait for Monday when they can reach the Molding company.

you know what I think the problem is? all the devs are seriously nice people. they have an attitude, morals and trust. usually such people expect to meet with the same type of people in business life. and then they take a long time to realize that it is not so. that there are crooks, liars, money-makers. i had to learn this lesson myself and it breaks my heart to see this enthusiastic team stranded in this situation and obviously pressured by their loyal (and mostly inexperienced) fanbase that they also depend on financially to a certain degree to try the impossible. in some areas they can overstretch their own resources and work some miracles - but not here.

i am also not trying to push for any particular course of action. it's a tough decision they have to take. especially with their openness. after all, i would find it perfectly ok to get a case like it is - we first batchers are early adopters. i also don't mind waiting longer. all i want to get across is, that sending another email to the company and waiting another 2 months for a miracle to happen is probably not going to help.

ah, what am i ranting about. when you'll have reached my age i guess you'll understand.

Your 38 according to your profile.. those 6 years you have over me make you infinity wise, everyone should bow to you.

 

[shunun]

You guy's need to cool it a bit.. this arguing isn't going to get things done faster. What we need to do is wait until monday and hope that everything's good enough for the factory to make some cases. And if not, then we vent our frustration

 

[Screeny]

Have you seen this new photo?

 

[MWeston]

From what I have seen of these new mouldings, your moulding company needs to run a small batch to validate thier parameters, things like mould temperature, injection pressures, cycle times etc.

These coupled with venting added in the correct positions (tiny modifications 1- 2 days max) will sort out your sinkages, short fills etc.

The greasy finish you mention is most probably due to excessive release agent used when running the mould for the first time (reduces the risk of the moulding sticking in the tool).

I have been designing plastic components for over 10 years now, and alot of your issues with Chinese moulding companies are well known, regardless which company you chose over there, they just work diferently to us.

I am very optimistic though, when these parts are run to the correct production processes, perhaps with extra venting, your cosmetic issues will be resolved.

Thanks Madcad77. I tend to agree with you here since there has to be a reason for the way things are. I'm still up assembling units as I've made some promises for the week and I am noticing that several of the parts feel like they are almost dripping with grease (release agent). I even started wiping a few off. These came right out of the mold and into the shipping box.

 

[user47alpha]

So lets look at the facts:
1. The company is fully paid.
2. The company is in China.
3. The company thinks about us as a super small order, maybe they have googled us and know more.
4. Rev2->Rev3 had no giant improvements.
5. The Chinese called Rev3 "perfect".

From 4 and 5, there are four possibilities:
I) They do not work anymore at the molds.
II) They cannot provide better quality.
III) The quality is "perfect", if you see real massproduced units.
IV) Future revisions will get better and better.

If you look at 1-3 you see, that it would not be a good idea to piss off the company. They can simply stop responding. There is no "profitable business-relationship" for them. They got all they can get from OP.

So I agree with a lot of people here when I say: Produce them! Let's see what they really look. If your testsample has final quality: Screw the review magazines.

Rev2-Rev3 took something like 6 weeks. Please don't waste another two months for "small changes" which will be done till the "15th" and provide us with "perfect" cases.


EDIT: Oh, and OP, hurry up! If MW waits till Monday, it's Tuesday in China and they won't start before Wednesday. But if you call them 7 am (Chinese time) on Monday, they start on Monday!

 

[Aries]

I wonder if some type of spray paint would do the job to give it a nice matte finish. Would it be a problem for the assembling process? What do you think?

 

[hitbyambulance]

my opinion: i trust OP Team will make the most informed decision in this situation, and i will go with what's decided.

 

[Magic Sam]

Hi,

Have you seen this new photo?

Rev2 case looks better than rev1 and 3 IMHO, but the hinge seemed to always be a problem though...

I can do with some scratches here and there, I couldn't care less about ugly colors and stuff like that, it could even give some charm to these 1st batch Pandoras

We're talking about an homebrew project after all, and future batches will be better

The only thing I am really worried about is that hinge thing, does it deeply affect the quality of the console ?

If the answer is yes, then it would be a RED LIGHT for me, because it's not acceptable, period.

If the answer is no, then it could be a GREEN LIGHT I think

Bye, have a nice Sunday, Magic Sam