Getting closer...

Discussion in 'Pyra News' started by EvilDragon, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. error

    error Very Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I have nothing against x86, but I really can't see us switching instruction sets this far in. Or maintaining repositories with binaries dual-compiled for two different instruction sets.
     
  2. slaeshjag

    slaeshjag ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,687
    Location:
    ~Stockholm, Sweden
    Although... Modifying the dbp system to allow a single package to provide binary for multiple platforms wouldn't be more than an afternoon of work...
    :p
     
    Djhg2000, rygD and Silent-Hunter like this.
  3. Letalis Sonus

    Letalis Sonus Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,054
    You might as well just revive FatELF.
     
    Djhg2000 likes this.
  4. Silent-Hunter

    Silent-Hunter Hardcore Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,052
    What's wrong with fat elves? You don't like Santa Claus? He'll put you on the naughty list!
     
    Djhg2000, Yori and error like this.
  5. sebt3

    sebt3 homebrew player (P. & C.)

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    4,747
    Location:
    France
    Well handling it on the repo side wouldnt be much more work either.
    But, imho, having both binaries in the same package is useless. Why not using 2 different files ? The (your) dbp system already have architecture support build-in. The repo currently cannot have the same package for 2 distincts architecture, but changing this is a 2h job (changing a db constraint, and review the code)
     
    Djhg2000, rygD and ible like this.
  6. Grench

    Grench Forum Addict!

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    6,137
    Agreed, however since ED was the one that brought it up, it's kind of fair game IMHO.

    .....................

    Something about this one has me intrigued.
    https://www.renesas.com/en-us/solutions/automotive/products/rcar-h3.html
    It is an automotive SoC, so it would, in theory, have a long availability cycle.

    Linux is listed as the primary supported OS. "Supported OSs: Linux, Android, QNX® Neutrino® RTOS, Integrity®, others"
    Linux support page: https://elinux.org/R-Car/Boards/H3SK
    3D is handled through: IMG PowerVR Series6XT GX6650
    (Question to ask - does Linux support include the 3D chip and if so, how long is the support envisioned for?)

    Thermal considerations - this is a high speed 10 core chip. It would not be able to be run flat out with all cores in the Pyra's thermal envelope. However, if we restrict to using 2 cores OR 4 cores at lower clock rates, would it fit the performance/heat profile? Maybe even 1 CA57 core overclocked (game thread) and 1 CA53 core underclocked (OS thread)?

    Dev board kit isn't cheap, but is more inclusive than most:
    https://www.digikey.com/product-det...KBX0010SA09/RTP0RC7796SKBX0010SA09-ND/6621861

    Performance - others are better equipped to make those estimations than I am.

    Cost? For a Pyra type device, an SoC like the Renesas H3 may be getting binned at the manufacturer such that they are only using examples with all cores working. Maybe they have rejects where the one or more of the CA53 cores doesn't work and we're only interested in the CA57 cores? No idea - that would be for ED to ask any companies he's interested in working with.

    The point? The above is one example scenario. I'm not saying 'we gotta do this'. There are a lot of ARM SoC producers/sellers out there beyond the cell phone parts that get all of the press. Today's cars have more processing power than the original space shuttle did - and their SoCs are very similar to Pyra type needs. There may be people in the community who know of other examples of SoC options that would be non-mainstream but still solid options to consider.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  7. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,557
    Well, if you are going to consider SOCs now, at least choose something based on the A72 or A73 . At least then by the time the upgrade board comes out , it will use a SOC with last generation tech as opposed to several generation old tech

    Even the GPD XD+ which is about to hit the market for ~ $200 has a SOC with A72's in it and Vulkan support. It uses the MT8176 -> https://www.mediatek.com/products/tablets/mt8176
    It's a hexacore SOC with 2 x A72s and 4 x A53's

    Maybe there is a similar SOC with open source GPU drivers
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  8. rohezal

    rohezal Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,662
    Can we buy the socs from GPD? When they buy 10K or 100K for the consoles, maybe their will sell 1K or 2K to us, for their purchase price + 20%?
     
    levi likes this.
  9. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    19,785
    Location:
    Ingolstadt
    Most SoCs (especially by Chinese manufacturers) only have Android support, no Linux support.
    Often with tons of binary blobs you can't use.

    The HiSilicon ones might be better, as they're supported by Linaro and they have working Linux Devboards.
    Getting them is another question thoug...
     
  10. benoitb

    benoitb Very Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    Finland
    No idea if we would be able to get them but it seems Samsung is trying to increase sales of its SoCs to other vendors:
    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Sam...ipsets-to-other-smartphone-companies_id101927

    The Odroid dev boards are using Exynos chipsets. I don't think they are good on driver openness however.
     
  11. matzesu

    matzesu Hardcore Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,045
    Location:
    Germany,, Saarland, at home
    On the Gamescom, they runn the Dreamcast Emulator on the Pyra Prototyphe, and this was early one..,
    PSX Emulation Multiple Times, so even if the 3D ditnt work the first few months, the Pyra should be quite usefull, at least for me.. as i just want a "New Pandora",
    It is nt sayd that the Pyra will be a expensive brick the first few months after release, as the Debian on it is on a usable state, just not obtimiced for the Pyra Hardware..

    Expect the Display Backlight brightness controlls (its stays for ever on full brigthness, as long the Pandora is "On"), and some scretches on the Case, my Pandora still works, so im not in a hurry,..
     
  12. Djhg2000

    Djhg2000 Very Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2014
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Sweden
    What you're looking for is putting "isolcpus=[cores you want dedicated]" on the Linux command line in the bootloader. Then use "taskset [core bitmask] [executable]" from a terminal.

    It's about as close as you get to running individual cores in single user mode. The kernel will keep off the cores as much as possible. Any core bound interrupts will obviously still go through but it won't schedule any tasks on it without being explicitly told to do so.
     
    ible, MrMelty and Djoga'Ro like this.
  13. ible

    ible professional vim user

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,171
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    wow, now i can be a scheduler, too! just like the old days.
     
    Djhg2000 and rSl like this.
  14. daveshah

    daveshah Still Fresh

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    You can go a lot further, if you look at the OpenAMP project and the `remoteproc` Linux kernel driver. That way it's possible to have two different operating systems - or both OS and baremetal code - running on multiple cores of a SoC.

    In my case I used this to have one core of a dual core Cortex A9 running Linux, and another running FreeRTOS for more critical real-time functionality.
     
    Djhg2000, Splintercat, error and 4 others like this.
  15. Hồng Thất Công

    Hồng Thất Công Đả Cẩu Bổng Pháp

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,380
    Location:
    Cái Bang
    Just use same SoC as RPi 4 (whatever that will be) for new Pyra SoC board ...
     
    oskda likes this.
  16. Bokkertoff

    Bokkertoff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    I would love to get some feedback regarding how well (or not) the GSM/3G/LTE modules are performing.
    It is a bit concerning that there are so little mention of this. It feels like another bubble waiting to burst...
     
    Yori, Kippykip and ClockworkCoder like this.
  17. Askarus

    Askarus Hardcore Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,296
    Location:
    Germany
    HNS did already test this.
    The Prototypes are non LTE version because of cost reasons.
     
    ClockworkCoder, levi and Kippykip like this.
  18. Yuji Sakai

    Yuji Sakai Still Fresh

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2016
    Messages:
    51
    About the "Future version":
    Could be it bought this year without buying older CPU-Board?
    Would it Support Exagear?
    Since mentioned SoC is 64-bit would there be 8+ GB versions of new CPU-Board?
     
    Yori likes this.
  19. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,359
    Location:
    Everywhere
    Probably not.
     
  20. Yuji Sakai

    Yuji Sakai Still Fresh

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2016
    Messages:
    51
    Why?

    PS: Can ED answer all three questions?
     

Share This Page

Loading...