EvilDragon's Pre-Order Survey Thread

[OldJim]

 and that those who say that its unfair should stop being so ungrateful.

UNGREATFUL???

This just must be another Joke -right?

If some one is ungreatfull its the people geting the pandora bevore the ones that preorderd and made it posible for the to even ever get a pandora in the first place.

The new orders should be greatfull that the pandora ever even did come a posibility for them to order.

The would not have that posibility if not for all the people that preorderd and waited an to pandora all these years.

If the would be greatfull the would be glad to wait for there pandora until the oringal que is cleared

 

[Binky]

 and that those who say that its unfair should stop being so ungrateful.

UNGREATFUL???

This just must be another Joke -right?

If some one is ungreatfull its the people geting the pandora bevore the ones that preorderd and made it posible for the to even ever get a pandora in the first place.

The new orders should be greatfull that the pandora ever even did come a posibility for them to order.

The would not have that posibility if not for all the people that preorderd and waited an to pandora all these years.

If the would be greatfull the would be glad to wait for there pandora until the oringal que is cleared

OK, I was rather exagerating there;  the only point was that the current propose scheme (new sales fund old orders) is the only one that's commercially viable.

For all that it would be fairer to ship first orders first, there is no way that thats going to work out.

The original orderers got it cheap in the knowlede that it was a risky venture (discuss)

People won't pay a premium (nearly twice the value of the product) to get it delivered sometime in the future.

 

[OldJim]

No, it's not a joke, he is quite serious: EvilDragon runs a completely different company from Craig and is under absolutely no legal obligation to send you a Pandora.

Your forgeting that with out the preorders from craig the pandora projekt would not exist.

So there would not be a ED Shop seling pandoras if not for the preordes (from Craig and ED)

I orderd my Pandora from ED Orinaly. But was redirected to Craigs shop - because i live in Switzerland... So it was the dicission of Openpandora where i did get in the que and not mine.

I did want to get in the Que by ED because Germany is closer to Switzerland... but i was redirected to Craig.

So i sure feel like ED is responible for my getting my Pandora. It was Openpanoras that but me in the que at Craigs. It was my first wish to get in the que at ED... but they did not let me!

People won't pay a premium (nearly twice the value of the product) to get it delivered sometime in the future

Why not all the preoder People did exactly that. They did pay for a product that the would get some time in the future.

 

[Binky]

Legally, ED has no obligation to fulfil Craig's orders.

Financially, there is no way to fulfil them without new payments at ED's shop.

Practically, most people won't pay twice the value of the product to be put on the end of a long queue (where its length is completely unknown)

Although it would be nice if there were a way to ship old preorderer's units immediately, its not possible.

ED is already going out of his way to help customers towards whom he has only an ethical responsibility.

What, in your view, would be a better plan?

 

[OldJim]

Legally, ED has no obligation to fulfil Craig's orders.

Dont agree on this. It was Openpandoras decision where i had to get in que. (See post above)


And ED is a part of Openpandora.

So that makes him responible.

I did want to get in to EDs que right at the beginning. Because Germany is closer to Switzerland. But they redirected me to Craig.

 

[WizardStan]

Your forgeting that with out the preorders from craig the pandora projekt would not exist.

I didn't forget, but legally it is irrelevant. EvilDragon is not responsible for anyone who ordered from Craigix. Period. There can be no discussion on that front, it is fact. Try to take EvilDragon to any sort of court and you will be laughed out. There is no legal recourse that can be taken against EvilDragon to get money or Pandora. Everything is at Craig's feet in that regard, and Craig has no money and no Pandoras.

I did want to get in the Que by ED because Germany is closer to Switzerland... but i was redirected to Craig.

So i sure feel like ED is responible for my getting my Pandora. It was Openpanoras that but me in the que at Craigs. It was my first wish to get in the que at ED... but they did not let me!

That is unfortunate and one of the reasons why EvilDragon is working to fix the situation, but feeling like he is responsible is not in any way the same as actually being responsible. EvilDragon is doing his best to put you right, but you are unfortunately not his customer: EvilDragon has to take care of his customers first (legally and ethically) and the profits made from that will go towards Craig's customers. If you wait, you will get your Pandora eventually. The situation is unfortunate but he is doing the best he can.

Legally, ED has no obligation to fulfil Craig's orders.

Dont agree on this.

It's a fact. You can disagree but it just means you are wrong. EvilDragon is under absolutely no legal obligation to send any Pandoras to Craig's customers, regardless of who they wanted to originally. They are two different and legally separate companies.

 

[EvilDragon]

You know, you're right that without preorders at Craigs shop, the Pandora wouldn't exist.


And you know what? I would be very happy about that.


Because in that case, I wouldn't have had to work for 5 years for free and I wouldn't have made debts which I now have to pay back at some time.


I probably would've made more profit with the Caanoo, Everdrives and the other retro stuff I have in my shop.


That would've been a lot less work, more profit and less pressure for me.


Boy, that would be great.


I am a very careful guy. When Craig wanted to start taking preorders for the Pandora, I told him I'll only do it if he's 100% sure the production is safe and secure within the given timeframe and the device has been tested to assure it works without hardware issues.


He told me that's the case... well, we all know how it went.


Now I'm trying to help everyone out who is stuck in the Pandora situation.


OldJim, if you got a better working idea or know someone who wants to donate 150K EUR, then let me know.

 

[mcobit]

Where did you get redirected exactly?


There was some discussion before about that.


But I think ED never suggested people to order from craig.


He originally was only the german reseller, so it is only logical and his business if he didn't want to take orders from other countries. Even if they are closer...


In the end YOU wanted a Pandora and ordered from craig. You did not have to...


All that said, if you preordered, you paid half the retailprize while knowing, that there could be complications, as they were not produced yet.


Afaik you can always get one right away by paying the prizedifference to the current retail prize.

 

[WizardStan]

There are many people that really appreciate what you're doing for the community. Don't let the occasional dissenter get you down. I promise if I ever find myself in Europe again I will find some way of getting to Germany and personally buying you dinner.

 

[andmaz777]

This is what I mean about effective communication - there has been plenty but a lot of it is here there and everywhere in forum posts - I have followed it all and completely understand what has gone right and wrong because of the forums but not everyone wants to do this.


Now we have a number of people rightly thinking what the hell is all this about but for them, make no mistake ED and even Craig are trying to make sure everyone gets a unit and this is the only way it will ever happen.

 

[Binky]

For every Dragon who's got into a nasty tangled financial mess, there are hundreds of people who are happy to own the greatest geek handheld in the world.

There are many people that really appreciate what you're doing for the community.

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[ShleeDragon]

Legally, ED has no obligation to fulfil Craig's orders.

Dont agree on this. It was Openpandoras decision where i had to get in que. (See post above)


And ED is a part of Openpandora.

So that makes him responible.

I did want to get in to EDs que right at the beginning. Because Germany is closer to Switzerland. But they redirected me to Craig.

Seriously, ED is helping you and your calling him a fraud? You might feel like he's got a responsibility, but the truth is "Legally" he doesn't.

Show some respect for somebody who is putting himself into an amazingly painful situation for nothing... I wouldn't be shocked to hear that he's covered over 100,000euro for Craigs screw ups.

What does he get for helping 500+ people who would have be left high and dry? A slap in the face.

I hope he places you at the bottom of the queue.

 

[ShleeDragon]

also. Free facts... Craig lost hundreds of thousands on the Pandora and walked away. ED picks up the pieces and has recovered the project to great personal hardship.

The difference is. ED seems to have a plan that is working perfectly.... It's been 12 months since ED has had a single piece of bad news or something NOT going to plan.

Craig might have started this but ED is a god figure for fixing it.

 

[Binky]

What does he get for helping 500+ people who would have be left high and dry? A slap in the face.

And a trainload of respect for pulling the project from disaster with no money and hundreds of unfulfilled orders.

 

[PokeParadox]

Plus many of us are still donating money to ED to help with clearing preorder queue...

We ALL pretty much agree it's not the best situation but at least ED is working to sort it out!

 

[b_o_b]

ED should have never taken the responsibility for any of Craigs issues. The problem would have been a lot easier to solve. People now being ungrateful is the result of something that is basically unfair for everyone. They have to pay more or have to wait longer.

Bankruptcy for Craig and then proposing a discount for new orders would have solved it immediately and was more fair (everybody loses).   

That ED is coordinating this, is IMO unbusinesslike and a very generous gesture of the people who pay more.  I think it is madness, but the crazy Dragon is certainly not Evil...      

 

[siddharta]

Unfortunately, those are the risks if you are an entrepreneur with such a project.

If you informed you before ordering, you have known that there is a risk to never get it delivered.

I do understand your frustration, but if you have seen what ED made out of the mess, it is a wonder he is still standing..

I can also not understand why you have been redirected to Craig's shop. For me, also living in Switzerland, it worked out well.

Cheers Christoph

 

[A2000]

Sometimes ED reminds me of one of this duracell bunnies in this old commercials. All others eventually fail but he keeps functioning. Really amazing!

While I understand you by instinct, OldJim, you have to realize that ED isn't part of the problem but the (only!) solution. Yes, you paid for the development in the first place and yes, there would have been no Pandora without you pre-orderers. But be assure there also would not be any new Pandora sold to new customers neither any Pandora shipped to remaining pre-orderers (with the money from those new customers) if not ED had revived the production and at the same time struggled to deliver every single Pandora to the last one who paid upfront. And that he hasn't only achieved with his working for no money but also with making high debts. That debts have to be cleared in the end and we are not talking about 300 Euros for a single Pandora but 150.000 Euros.

I cannot emphasise strongly enough this project had had a huge pile of problems but this problems seemed to have vanished when ED took over! Alas he is just a human being (Sometimes I'm not that convinced about that. Maybe there is a small amount of dragon blood in his veins to push his stamina?). Give him time with his great, working(!) plan and you will be a proud owner of your Pandora.

A2000

 

[Naynay]

Got my 1GHz pandora the other day (from about 130 in the original 1Ghz upgrade queue), after a prerequisite two-month wait from the postie who seemed to take forever to get it to me after I got my initial email.

Awesome little device. Hats off to the guys for FINALLY getting there for me and plodding on with sending them out in the face of everything going wrong.

If any of you guys are still waiting, you should seriously consider paying whatever the asking rate is for the 1Ghz upgrade. I couldn't conceive of my pandora being any slower!

 

[GizmoAgent]

I really think it best if EvilDragon doesn't waste his time on responding to questions/gripes that have been hashed over a thousand time before in other threads.

ED, let the community deal with the.... lets call them "the uninformed", so things stay civil.

You have nothing to defend any more when these post come up. You have explained enough.

The reason are clear to those that keep up and those that don't the community will inform them.

You've got better things to do.

All the best and keep the faith