Everything still going smooth? (2011-11-18)


EvilDragon

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
29,907
Age
44
Location
Ingolstadt
Is it possible to move the cable production to Germany as well? Or is it too expensive here?

I'll check this here as well.


LCD Cable production can be done here and is only a tiny bit more expensive.


I've spoken to a lot of companies here and their experience with Chinese companies:


Most of the Chinese companies do their job - but they need five times longer than a company here.


The bigger Chinese companies are better in this regards, but they usually want higher quantities.
 

pmprog

DNF (Did Not Finish)
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
4,150
Most of the Chinese companies do their job - but they need five times longer than a company here.
The true price of cheap...


I hope you get them sorted soon, I'm really looking forward to getting one.
 

fusion_power

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
13,217
Location
germany
Website
Visit site
Generalizing against an arbitrary group doesn't do justice to those who were not involved, and it doesn't prevent future problems either. As I always say: "One of the biggest mistakes one can make is to underestimate others. One of the other biggest mistakes is to trust others."


The better thing to say would be that there are lessons that can be learned:

  • Never produce at a place you can not visit unless you know what you are doing
  • Never trust unless you know what you are doing
  • Always be conscientious and comprehensive when making plans
  • Always provide for contingencies
Yes, sounds better. I don't want to judge chinese companies in general but in the Case of the Pandora Project there was no luck with it. I know there are western companies that also produce in China and have no problems with it because they have their people there for Quality Control 'n stuff. I once found a prototype molding company that does this for preventing the mess OP-Team had there.


Example from their FAQ:

How do you guarantee quality in China?


At its own production facilities in Zhongshan, G.W.P. guarantees German standards for quality, production planning, employee management and occupational safety and thereby maintains deadlines and high-quality products.


Our foundry engineers who specialize in individual procedures can make suggestions to optimize production-related design during the bid preparation phase. Since they are always on location, our quality assurance engineers can quickly troubleshoot quality problems in the production of our contractual partners and suppliers who have met our qualifications. our 10 years out experience and networking with local suppliers protect you from typical surprises that often arise when purchasing parts directly from China. The manufacturing procedures of G.W.P. AG are based on DIN and ISO standards and ensure that your customers receive the specified quality. Certification according to ISO 9001 by the Rhineland Technical Inspectorate is concluded in june of 2009.
source: http://www.gwp-ag.co.../faq/index.html


So if ever dealing with China again, choosing such a company that has their own people there is really recommended.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

EvilDragon

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
29,907
Age
44
Location
Ingolstadt
Well, all the Pandora bare PCBs have been produced in China and are currently also being produced in China.


Again, these are companies handled by western companies, which makes them work better :)
 

xyta

Still Fresh
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
887
But I think the case company did quite a good job, regarding the price of a case. It obviously takes time to tweak the moulds etc. The only problem I see is that OP underestimated the required effort, due to their limited experience with stuff like that.


So IMHO you can't say that all chinese companies were bad in general. :)
 

fusion_power

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
13,217
Location
germany
Website
Visit site
For the Time they've had, the Case Company did a horrible Job, maybe you know the Drama that lead into the huge delay just because of the mess they did. Some of it had to covered with paint for example but the case never was designed to have paint on, this alone leads to fitting problems (Triggers & so on). Cracks in the Plastic or sharp, unclean edges all around the Case are another point. No professional Company would deliver such a poor Quality. It can be better, look at the iControlPad for example or just the GP2X/Wiz/Caanoo... ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

FaeMinx

Rainbow Liberation Instigation
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
3,131
Age
41
Location
outside looking in side looking out
Well I'm glad everything is still working out... A little sad about the TV-Out cables, as I thought it was a done deal. Oh well, nothing a little more patience won't solve. I'm sure ED will find a better solution in due time.


ED: Any chance of a status update on the RMA situation?
 

FaeMinx

Rainbow Liberation Instigation
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
3,131
Age
41
Location
outside looking in side looking out
Well, I'm fixing units every now and then, fixed 8 last week :)

Oh good show! That's a respectable quantity for one week concidering everything else you have on your plate. :)


(I hope mine's arrived with you by now...) i know it's silly to ask if you've spotted it yet (as you only open the packages when you're ready to work on them... )


Do you notify each person as you send them back or do you just ship them?
 

EvilDragon

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
29,907
Age
44
Location
Ingolstadt
Do you notify each person as you send them back or do you just ship them?

Usually, I send a mail.

ED,


Any word on socketable nubs progress?
Just bumping this question from the last news thread.

Any word on socketable nubs progress?
Just bumping this question from the last news thread.

Since none of the new nubs have failed yet, we haven't finished that idea,


It takes time, eats money and is some risk that is not needed right now.
 

peelie

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
887
fyi for those waiting for RMA mine took about a month, cheers ED! xmas is not going to be so boring!
 

DaMummy

Soldier Paste
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
4,417
Age
36
Location
Ohio
mine also shipped back from ED couple days ago. although i could swear FaeMinx RMA'd it before me, but that one comes from africa and i dont know your shipping/customs situation
 

rxls

Still Fresh
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
4
Location
China
Hi,


Newbie here but that you're probably going to see next to my post :)


Stumbled on Pandora Project accidentally while looking for more info about Viliv N5.


My knowledge about the device is mostly basic at the moment but I do like the idea :)


As per production in China you're guys right that it needs supervision (that includes advise about the presence while manufacturing as well).


As for cables, if it took a year (or more) from the moment it started up to now ; likely explanation is timing as well as changing USD/EUR to RMB value and rising cost of legitimate labor (some new Chinese regulations were implemented 1.5-2 years ago) and materials.


BTW, what's an English level of this guys you've contacted? (I assume here that conversation was in English)


It's rather rare that factory won't explain why not but if so, it's mostly connected with loosing deposit (as I understood they said they give it back).


As for molds, according to Chinese law (if there were no changes within about last 3 years), if they were used (and there are visible traces of it) it's illegal to export them out of China.


As for production JAN 16th (Mon) it might be a problem.


If 'full production run' is to happen in China there will be only 6-7 days before Chinese New Year starts (and last day customs here may or may not work as they should).


From about 15th SMT factories start running on skeleton crew because workers are going back to their hometowns (and about 2 month before Chinese New Year there are a lot of inner China companies orders and it's always a problem to fit in).


You need to schedule courier pick up (if it goes by Fedex or something similar) latest JAN 20th but it won't give you any safety margin ; if it goes by Air Cargo you need to have it delivered to customs at least JAN 19th days before they stop working (in OCT 2011 Chinese customs in Shenzhen were checking carefully every shipment = missed shipping date).


------


OK, if you guys think that above is somehow valuable and/or you have some questions feel free to contact me :)
 

Link

ithic.com
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
2,943
Location
Vermont
Website
www.ithic.com
^


We don't need anything from China right now? Maybe I'm wrong here. This project is well aware of Chinese New Year.


Germany is doing great. The only issue with China was they don't want to make the TV Out cables. So a new company needs to be found.


Thanks for the other info, how do you know such information about molds and such?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

rxls

Still Fresh
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
4
Location
China
^


We don't need anything from China right now? Maybe I'm wrong here. This project is well aware of Chinese New Year.


Germany is doing great. The only issue with China was they don't want to make the TV Out cables. So a new company needs to be found.


Thanks for the other info, how do you know such information about molds and such?

I do live/work in China for last 7-8 years and last 2.5-3 years I do work on supervising manufacturing of electronics.
 

EvilDragon

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
29,907
Age
44
Location
Ingolstadt
As for cables, if it took a year (or more) from the moment it started up to now ; likely explanation is timing as well as changing USD/EUR to RMB value and rising cost of legitimate labor (some new Chinese regulations were implemented 1.5-2 years ago) and materials.

Well, but then again they could increase the total costs for the production.


I asked for an updated quotation.

BTW, what's an English level of this guys you've contacted? (I assume here that conversation was in English)


It's rather rare that factory won't explain why not but if so, it's mostly connected with loosing deposit (as I understood they said they give it back).

The company who produces the cases (also located in China) is organizing this for us, therefore, they discuss everything in Chinese.

As for production JAN 16th (Mon) it might be a problem.


If 'full production run' is to happen in China there will be only 6-7 days before Chinese New Year starts (and last day customs here may or may not work as they should).


From about 15th SMT factories start running on skeleton crew because workers are going back to their hometowns (and about 2 month before Chinese New Year there are a lot of inner China companies orders and it's always a problem to fit in).


You need to schedule courier pick up (if it goes by Fedex or something similar) latest JAN 20th but it won't give you any safety margin ; if it goes by Air Cargo you need to have it delivered to customs at least JAN 19th days before they stop working (in OCT 2011 Chinese customs in Shenzhen were checking carefully every shipment = missed shipping date).

Yep, we know about that.


Fatih is dealing with the asian companies and he's been doing stuff like that for years now.


He also has his own company in Hong Kong.


There is no SMT needed on the TV out cables. They are just cables soldered to connectors :)
 

rxls

Still Fresh
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
4
Location
China
As for cables, if it took a year (or more) from the moment it started up to now ; likely explanation is timing as well as changing USD/EUR to RMB value and rising cost of legitimate labor (some new Chinese regulations were implemented 1.5-2 years ago) and materials.

Well, but then again they could increase the total costs for the production.


I asked for an updated quotation.
Sometimes they don't ; just give up project (but not often).

BTW, what's an English level of this guys you've contacted? (I assume here that conversation was in English)


It's rather rare that factory won't explain why not but if so, it's mostly connected with loosing deposit (as I understood they said they give it back).

The company who produces the cases (also located in China) is organizing this for us, therefore, they discuss everything in Chinese.
OK

As for production JAN 16th (Mon) it might be a problem.


If 'full production run' is to happen in China there will be only 6-7 days before Chinese New Year starts (and last day customs here may or may not work as they should).


From about 15th SMT factories start running on skeleton crew because workers are going back to their hometowns (and about 2 month before Chinese New Year there are a lot of inner China companies orders and it's always a problem to fit in).


You need to schedule courier pick up (if it goes by Fedex or something similar) latest JAN 20th but it won't give you any safety margin ; if it goes by Air Cargo you need to have it delivered to customs at least JAN 19th days before they stop working (in OCT 2011 Chinese customs in Shenzhen were checking carefully every shipment = missed shipping date).

Yep, we know about that.


Fatih is dealing with the asian companies and he's been doing stuff like that for years now.


He also has his own company in Hong Kong.
OK ; I didn't mean to but in with my post.


If there was such impression ; apologies.

There is no SMT needed on the TV out cables. They are just cables soldered to connectors :)
OK
 

EvilDragon

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
29,907
Age
44
Location
Ingolstadt
I didn't want to sound offensive here, I'm thankful for any help :)


Just wanted to point out that we checked most issues already.


We should have quotations from some more companies within this week as well :)
 
Top