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mali

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borgqueenx said:
What about shipping craigix? Will it still happen from gbax?
What would you want do with him, anyway?

Sorry, I had to :blush:
 
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Pleng

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second exodous said:
Wow. Somebody has totally missed the point of the PND format!
I said that in response to someone wanting to download and install programs from the old File Archive rather than a app store/repository. Did you not read the entire post? It had nothing to do with PND.

Read before you post.
As far as I was aware the old file archive is due to host PNDs. Or have I completely missed something?
 
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SlashEMc2k

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The question is do, I buy a Dingoo or prey that I`m in the first 1000 and my Pandora will arrive before the 14th? :(

Silly question but instead of waiting for the post can we drive and collect? :D
I`m guessing the answer is no, we have to wait for the posty to deliver in the UK..
 

second exodous

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Pleng said:
second exodous said:
Wow. Somebody has totally missed the point of the PND format!
I said that in response to someone wanting to download and install programs from the old File Archive rather than a app store/repository. Did you not read the entire post? It had nothing to do with PND.

Read before you post.
As far as I was aware the old file archive is due to host PNDs. Or have I completely missed something?
Either your confused or I am. PND is just a file that tells where to display objects on a SD card on your Pandora, it has nothing to do with how it is installed or the program itself.

Watch me be wrong and completely make a fool of myself now. There is a wiki for it, let me find it.
 
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Sturatt

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second exodous said:
Pleng said:
second exodous said:
Wow. Somebody has totally missed the point of the PND format!
I said that in response to someone wanting to download and install programs from the old File Archive rather than a app store/repository. Did you not read the entire post? It had nothing to do with PND.

Read before you post.
As far as I was aware the old file archive is due to host PNDs. Or have I completely missed something?
Either your confused or I am. PND is just a file that tells where to display objects on a SD card on your Pandora, it has nothing to do with how it is installed or the program itself.

Watch me be wrong and completely make a fool of myself now. There is a wiki for it, let me find it.
A PND file is actually a package for a program, its files, and its pxml file (one single file that encapsulates all of those). So it does have to do with the program AND how its installed. the idea is that all you need to do to install a program is copy over the PND file to your sd card.


edited for clarity
 
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second exodous

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Sturatt said:
second exodous said:
Pleng said:
second exodous said:
Wow. Somebody has totally missed the point of the PND format!
I said that in response to someone wanting to download and install programs from the old File Archive rather than a app store/repository. Did you not read the entire post? It had nothing to do with PND.

Read before you post.
As far as I was aware the old file archive is due to host PNDs. Or have I completely missed something?
Either your confused or I am. PND is just a file that tells where to display objects on a SD card on your Pandora, it has nothing to do with how it is installed or the program itself.

Watch me be wrong and completely make a fool of myself now. There is a wiki for it, let me find it.
A PND file is actually a package for a program, its files, and its pxml file (one single file that encapsulates all of those). So it does have to do with the program AND how its installed. the idea is that all you need to do to install a program is copy over its PND file to your sd card.
Ok, I'm bouncing between this thread and a libpnd thread, I'm completely lost. But what I was quoted on originally was in response to File Archive install over repository/app store install, it still had nothing to do with .pnd files.
 
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Pleng

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SlashEMc2k said:
The question is do, I buy a Dingoo or prey that I`m in the first 1000 and my Pandora will arrive before the 14th? :(
14th of which month? January? Then hold off because you might just get a Pandora before then. December? No chance. Get yourslf an Dingoo!
 
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Asmo

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On the original order page, the dev fund was described as being for people 'writing free software for you'. Some people have made donations with their preorder, others have said they did not but would at some later stage. So with this new apps store model, is there an intended set of apps/emulators set aside as 'free' or will (as I mentioned earlier) there be 'credits' for those who already put money in on the understanding it was towards software?

devfund.jpg


I think when something like this is announced so late in the day, a bit of clarity is essential.
 

Tom`

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second exodous said:
Ok, I'm bouncing between this thread and a libpnd thread, I'm completely lost. But what I was quoted on originally was in response to File Archive install over repository/app store install, it still had nothing to do with .pnd files.
No, it does, because there is no "install" required with File Archive files (presuming you're in fact dealing with PNDs, and all Pandora software from the file archive will almost certainly be distributed as PND files, except firmware updates, which will be in ipkg format). So there's effectively no difference between "app store" files and file archive files. The only reason to have an app store is to make it easier for devs to sell stuff and handle donations.
 
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Etinin

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I don't care about an App Store at all.
Most of the applications I'm going to use are already available and I don't really intend to buy any commercial games.

But it's a good idea, as it should be useful to other people.
 

Kramy

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second exodous said:
Oh, I didn't know for sure, I thought it was tied to your processor or something so if you wanted to install it on your new computer you had to re-download it. That's what I heard but I never used it before.
Nope. Just recently I transfered my L4D2 folder to a friend's computer so he wouldn't have to re download it. (8GB!)

Worked absolutely fine. It picked it up under his account and started using the files. He was playing in minutes. :p

Everyone likes to slag Steam's DRM, but it's the only DRM I've encountered that doesn't interfere.

I support Steam and GOG.

craigix said:
The appstore can be accessed by the Pandora or a browser on your pc/mac/etc. You get a PND file, and it does keep track of your history.
Web based, like GOG! :D

By the way - if you've never purchased off GOG, I suggest you buy one game. The way they have it set up, it encourages you to collect games. :lol:

Grench said:
So, it watermarks the content then? You might want to put that in big bold red text somewhere on the download screen. Effectively this means that although we don't have to link the content to the device in order to play it - the content is linked to our payment history. Would this also make the purchaser personally liable for damages if the content they purchased that later appeared in the wild? I'm not opposed to this - but I think it should be spelled out front and center and not in page 5 of some document that nobody would read. Loosing a 32GB SDHC card full of apps could result in a huge personal liability though. It may be safer from a user perspective to have DRM checking to a registered SD card - but that would be harder to set up and would see resistance from some of the community.
Every game made by a big company in the past 4 years watermarks. They don't bother mentioning it, because unlike DRM, it has no possibility of affecting you in a negative way.

TV broadcasts and movies also watermark. So does music.

Grench said:
Very nice - but I don't see how someone will have cash in their account since payments will happen via paypal or card...

Will users also be able to order hardware through the site? I.e. a new Pandora (when they are stocked), power adapters, styli, etc?

Keep up the good work!
I've never understood why every transaction has to be separate. When our dollar was so high (CAD), I would've loved to toss a bunch into Paypal (USD), but Paypal doesn't support this. My money has to remain as CAD until I use it to buy something. Paypal clearly isn't a bank account. ;)

When I purchase off steam, buying a single $2 game, it's a separate transaction - I know $0.35 or more went to Paypal, and an equivalent amount to Steam. Ridiculous!

The best thing Craig can do is allow you to buy points. Ex: $20 = 2000 points. Games could 500pt, and then sellers(anyone) can redeem points at 80% value. That covers transaction costs ($1), provides money for hosting costs ($3), and gives the developer a higher percentage than other app stores. ($16)

Plus since there's no transaction overhead, people could gift points to free games they like. Here's 10pt for your effort. ;) Or set the price point quite low - 50pt - and not have to worry about 90% of it going to transaction overhead.

I feel that a point based system (or a way of storing funds in your account) would be quite liberating. Wouldn't you pay 50pt for a great TD like SqDef? :)

WizardStan said:
Seems to me that, if you discover someone has leaked some software, and you trace it back to an account, you just lock the account. Everything they've paid for can no longer be downloaded. Nothing stops them from creating a new account and doing the same thing, but one can hope that the risk of losing the stuff they've paid for and having to start over with their pirating scheme would be enough.
With the ability to contest the lock, of course. You shouldn't be penalized if your Pandora is stolen.
Legal action is a valid course if they so choose to press charges.
Three strikes and you're out? :p

craigix said:
Example, Zodttd uploads MAME and puts the price at 0. This means anyone can download it but it also places him in the 'donations' area which means he can receive general donations and also 'spare change' from those left over pennies.
I don't like the spare change penny thing.

You should be able to donate points (pennies) to anyone. If I think SqDef is worth 2000 points, I should be able to donate 2000, regardless of whether the price is 50 or 0.

Random donations should be off by default. (!)

An option to donate a certain amount every week or month to a random 0 point project would be neat, though.

My opinion is heavily influenced by the NCIX.com forums, where you can give points away. 2500 points is free shipping on an order.

I support using "points" rather than "pennies" because then you could have contests and stuff that give away non-refundable points. Winner of TINCs multiplayer over a weekend gets 250pt, etc. ;)

craigix said:
Another example is Exophase uploads his GBA emu - he can specify it costs $3 for the LATEST version with the older versions being free, thus if you want to always have the latest update you need to pay the $3 initially. But if you don't mind being one version behind it's free.
Neat. :) I would word that as being a Subscriber or Supporter.

You could get a little badge or something. It'd be fun to see who has the most badges. I imagine some people would collect hundreds from paying for the newest versions of apps, winning contests, giving away points to free projects, being a repeat buyer, etc.

Then you could (optionally) link people to your account's profile/badge-page to brag. :p

Again, I insist you look at GOG if you haven't. They've found ways to encourage people to buy!

WizardStan said:
(naw)mcx said:
They only thing I don't like about this is:
People who did not plan on charging for their app will, due to this simple way of doing it. And after paying so much for the bloody Pandora in the first place.. But hopefuly that won't matter, and every thing will be hunky dory.
I have more faith than that. I expect those that weren't planning to charge anything still won't, or at worst will charge a small pitance: $1 or less, if possible.
I'd love to put some stuff on there with a "pay what you want" model: no set price, just whatever number a person wants to put in (be it $10, $1, 0.01, or even 0) and you've got it.
With a point based system, there's no transaction fees to worry about. Points have a redeemable value, which covers transaction fees and hosting costs. Beyond that shuffling them around costs nothing. Donating 100pt would be fine, and you'd know 100pt went to the developer.

Lunatic said:
Is this so bad? Not too long ago, people used to be able to lend, borrow, and trade games with their friends. That's my biggest problem with digital distribution and DRM, so I'm glad there isn't any official DRM scheme here. Devs should be free to distribute an application in any way they see fit, but it isn't OpenPandora's responsibility to limit the freedoms of its customers.

Also +1 for a "Pay What You Want" option.
Watermarking won't affect giving a PND to your friends. And there's no DRM that won't interfere with the end user experience on a device like the Pandora, which lacks a dedicated internet connection, has the possibility of theft, etc.; if you get a new Pandora and discover your old games are useless, or you have to have WiFi enabled to play, you'll be pissed.

Watermarking will affect uploading it to a torrent site, because your account will be banned. The option of providing your personal info(which make be fake) to authorities is there if the developer wishes to pursue that angle.

I like Steam because it balances the good with the bad. Sure, my friends can no longer try/play my games - that's okay, because 75% off sales means I constantly get new games for $5-$30; even Dragon Age (really new) was on sale for $30.
 
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conso

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Things I'd really enjoy in an app-store:

1. open API (for ingame-stores, demo-unloacking, DLC downloads and stuff like that)
2. automated updates
3. database-connection to dedicated servers, so no additional registration is needed, but ensure that both sides play legal copies on actual pandoras.
4. a trophy-system would be most awesome ;)

As I'm an art-contributor to several open-source games, I'd also appreciate an option to freely supply "premium"-content to donators (donations for the project, not me).
 

Dunny

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second exodous said:
This 'unzip zip file here and put roms there or here or edit this file to say your roms are here and then make a save directory here before you play this game' is ridiculous, a repository is soo much easier. It will do two things, force people to follow standards in programming for the Pandora there for making the system faster and more stable and easier to debug and make using the Pandora a lot easier to use for the average person.
That's exactly how my apps will be distributed. Sorry, but I'm not writing some glorified install-script just so users can bypass their brains. And unless someone uploads them elsewhere, they'll only be available from my homepage. I have no problems with others doing the crappy installer for me, but I'm not going to be doing it myself, PND or otherwise. The "unzip here, put roms there, tape images there, disks in that folder there" has worked fine for me and my users for the last ten years, I see no reason to change it now.

D.
 
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gaterooze

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Dunny said:
The "unzip here, put roms there, tape images there, disks in that folder there" has worked fine for me and my users for the last ten years, I see no reason to change it now.
Sounds fine by me. I'm getting free software, I won't be complaining.
 
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gruso

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Emulators distributed as .PNDs are still going to require most of that anyway. People will still have to source their own roms/images and manage their locations manually. I'm all for the .PND format and a simplified appstore, but I also agree that people need to bring their brains to the party.

Releases like Dunny's will be good for the personal development of newbies. Or the start of fifty HALP threads. Either is fun.
 

VRAndy

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Kramy said:
Everyone likes to slag Steam's DRM, but it's the only DRM I've encountered that doesn't interfere.
This is true. But there's a natural human resistance to borrowing instead of owning. It doesn't bother everyone of course, but a non-trivial portion of people.


I've got games from companies that are now out of business, and I can still play them. You won't be able to say the same thing about Left 4 Dead.
 
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Kramy

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VRAndy said:
Kramy said:
Everyone likes to slag Steam's DRM, but it's the only DRM I've encountered that doesn't interfere.
This is true. But there's a natural human resistance to borrowing instead of owning. It doesn't bother everyone of course, but a non-trivial portion of people.
Steam is close enough to the line that I wouldn't call it borrowing.

Everything degrades. Your DVD could die, and then you need a new copy. Do you pirate it? Re-buy it? With Steam, you don't have to.

VRAndy said:
I've got games from companies that are now out of business, and I can still play them. You won't be able to say the same thing about Left 4 Dead.
Yes, but..
1) I got tons of fun out of L4D. If it's gone, then that was money well spent.
2) Valve is unlikely to go under, considering the boatloads of money they're making off Steam.
3) If Valve goes under they won't be hiring anyone to update games and defeat cracks. VAC will be gone, and new servers will pop up.

No-Steam cracks will replace No-CD cracks. ;) You'll be able to download the games illegally - see above if DVD dies - or you can just copy the game folder from a friend if the Steam network goes down, and connect directly to play.
 
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Tom`

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Kramy said:
Steam is close enough to the line that I wouldn't call it borrowing.

Everything degrades. Your DVD could die, and then you need a new copy. Do you pirate it? Re-buy it? With Steam, you don't have to.
Yeah, but you can't resell them - IMO that's a pretty fundamental freedom, and it's one that the various content industries are trying their hardest to eradicate.

Kramy said:
VRAndy said:
I've got games from companies that are now out of business, and I can still play them. You won't be able to say the same thing about Left 4 Dead.
Yes, but..
1) I got tons of fun out of L4D. If it's gone, then that was money well spent.
2) Valve is unlikely to go under, considering the boatloads of money they're making off Steam.
3) If Valve goes under they won't be hiring anyone to update games and defeat cracks. VAC will be gone, and new servers will pop up.

No-Steam cracks will replace No-CD cracks. ;) You'll be able to download the games illegally - see above if DVD dies - or you can just copy the game folder from a friend if the Steam network goes down, and connect directly to play.
Your 1) is subjective, so I'll ignore it here other than to say I don't agree, and probably a lot of other people don't either. As for 2), well... anything can happen, and I'd rather not cede control to some corporation anyway. (Keep in mind the examples set by Yahoo, Fictionwise, and Adobe, who have already shut down DRM servers making paid-for content unavailable, and Microsoft, who plans to at the end of 2011. A company doesn't have to go bankrupt to just decide their DRM authentication stuff is obsolete.)

3) Are you really saying "well, I don't mind DRM because I can always break it if I need to?" That may be an acceptable argument for the use of Steam in particular, but it's nonsensical as a reason to accept DRM.

It's pretty clear, anyway, that the "convenience" idea for the use of DRM in any medium is purely incidental to the corporations pushing it. All they want is more control, period. The RIAA has said straight out that their plan is to make people pay for every copy of a piece of music they can, even if it's for personal use and you already own it. The same thing with the MPAA - remember the whole "point a camera at a TV screen if you want to record clips of video for educational use" thing? I seriously doubt that game publishers are any different.
 
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PoisonedV

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Dunny said:
fiori_musicali said:
borgqueenx said:
The app store should not be open source though, it would make the games easier to crack and that will bounce of developers and conpanys.
+1.

Just when you think it's safe to enter the forums, someone makes a gaffe like that. And you just know it has to be either Paradox ("My pandora will have holes where the extra LEDs go") or Borg-queenie.

D.
heh how dare that fucking harlot speak in front of us men without reading http://stallmans-dick-24-7.net for the latest open source news
us nerds huh

Gruso said:
Emulators distributed as .PNDs are still going to require most of that anyway. People will still have to source their own roms/images and manage their locations manually. I'm all for the .PND format and a simplified appstore, but I also agree that people need to bring their brains to the party.

Releases like Dunny's will be good for the personal development of newbies. Or the start of fifty HALP threads. Either is fun.

UGH i agree fuck those "normies" they shuldnt b allowed 2 use the pandora... they beet me up in hi scool anyway... rigte guys?
 
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