Craigx Twitter Update Cases This Weekend!

[juniorm33]

I don't mind, within reason, what the actual tasks are, whether it's assembly, boxing, unboxing, sweeping, filling coffee cups or whatever. I'm in the Dallas area and willing to help if I can.

I have been kicking myself for not helping, thus far, on the software side and so this is a great opportunity to contribute some of my time for something that will help in the critical path to get this first batch into the hands of those who have been willing to stick it out for the longest "2 months"(TM) in history ;-)

You still gotta wait your line in the queue buddy, even if you do help out!
Just teasing, know how you feel, would've been nice to have helped out.
Maybe I'll do something on the software side once I get some free time....

 

[ben_dash]

You still gotta wait your line in the queue buddy, even if you do help out!

Absolutely, I don't want to jump the queue, but this is not an entirely altruistic offer on my part either; the more help I provide then the sooner it'll be that my Pandora lands in my hands, after they arrive in the hands of all the other people in front of me in the queue. Plus I think that it'll be fun to have been able to contribute in some way whether that be brewing coffee/tea of screwing some screws into some plastic.

 

[Polossatik]

I don't think sending a bunch to the press is really the idea going. That would be silly because the software is still in such a beta phase that even if they just wanted to be nice it would be stuff like "but this will improve" and "waiting for next firmware update to fix xxxx". What would be the point?

I agree, and the my main argument to not do a "press send out" is simply that if you do it now the second batch will not be "news" - they already covered the pandora - and it's at THAT moment you want real "press" coverage/buzz. (there will be reviews of the first batch, but that then implies people who actually ordered one , and they most likely know how judge the current "state" of the software).

I would suggest to
* Consider the first batch more or less as a giant "beta run" , and "sell" it to press also as such - "sorry guy's the REAL release is in 6 months, you want one to review then?".
* Raise the amount of pandora's set aside for warranty slightly, so that once the "second batch" is there you are sure to have a bunch of working pandora's left (doing a big "burn in" on those before sending stuff to the press is also a good idea btw).
* One month (tm) before the second batch can be actually shipped send as much pandora's as possible out to "main" new sites, giving them a week or 2 (this includes shipping time etc) to check things out and publish stuff with a nice link like "Pre-order here, delivery in 2-3 weeks"
* Use the "first batch press pandora's" , once returned and checked, as price or so for dev competitions/ challenges.

Bingo.

edit: speeling

 

[haptagud]

Going to the press is of cause a double-edged sword.
1) They love it, even with x-problems blah blah blah, and interest sky-rockets, pre-orders are filled for a year to come.
2) Or they hate it, too late to the party hardware issues, software buggy blah blah blah, and the project fails in the long term.

I feel if they want this to take off and they believe in the hardware, going to the press is the way to go. Because if you don't send them one, they're going to wonder WHY? However, it is essential that they are ready, that means the homepage is updated the day first orders are shipped with good professional quality photos, not renders, etc and that a well thought out strategy for taking pre-orders etc is in place. Happily I'm in line for the "first batch" and haven't minded (much) the wait, BUT if I was pre-ordering from the second batch and they want OP to take off I would be demanding a shipping date set-in-stone.

Just my two cents

 

[juniorm33]

Going to the press is of cause a double-edged sword.
1) They love it, even with x-problems blah blah blah, and interest sky-rockets, pre-orders are filled for a year to come.
2) Or they hate it, too late to the party hardware issues, software buggy blah blah blah, and the project fails in the long term.

I feel if they want this to take off and they believe in the hardware, going to the press is the way to go. Because if you don't send them one, they're going to wonder WHY? However, it is essential that they are ready, that means the homepage is updated the day first orders are shipped with good professional quality photos, not renders, etc and that a well thought out strategy for taking pre-orders etc is in place. Happily I'm in line for the "first batch" and haven't minded (much) the wait, BUT if I was pre-ordering from the second batch and they want OP to take off I would be demanding a shipping date set-in-stone.

Just my two cents

Sure go to the press but at the right time. You even alluded to some of the reasons why I think it's too early yourself, do you really think that the strategy for taking pre-orders is in place, they will have a better idea of when the next batch will be due, but wouldn't it be better to publicise it closer to the time when there's less possibilities of other delays?

As I said I'm not against going to the press far from it, I just think it's too early. And I'm not even including the software side.

Some of the best marketing has been viral over the last few years. I just don't want us to think once we start on the first batch that everything will go perfectly.
CraigX seemed to be talking about sending out the burned in units which would mean the press get it VERY soon, possibly before some of the first batchers, personally I don't care about that but some do, and it doesn't give us any leeway to get our house in order.

 

[gibberish]

I'm confused. Just what the hell kind of factory allows members of the public in to help out without first screening them all, insuring them all against injury and making them sign a contract? That is the most bizarre thing i ever heard.

 

[PoisonedV]

I'm confused. Just what the hell kind of factory allows members of the public in to help out without first screening them all, insuring them all against injury and making them sign a contract? That is the most bizarre thing i ever heard.

What is this regarding?

 

[emil10001]

I'm just curious, why would it be a bad thing to send the burn-in boards to customers? Is there a chance of greatly reduced life? Is there any other wear and tear that would have some effect on it's performance? To me, it seems like with the burn-in boards you know that they have been tested really thoroughly and the build quality is quite good. I really don't have any strong feelings on this one way or the other, just wondering why 'virgin' boards are better than boards that have been tested for a few weeks?

 

[WizardStan]

I'm just curious, why would it be a bad thing to send the burn-in boards to customers? Is there a chance of greatly reduced life? Is there any other wear and tear that would have some effect on it's performance? To me, it seems like with the burn-in boards you know that they have been tested really thoroughly and the build quality is quite good. I really don't have any strong feelings on this one way or the other, just wondering why 'virgin' boards are better than boards that have been tested for a few weeks?

It's like buying a demo model car. It might only have 2000 KM on it, and you may think that's nothing, but who knows how many people farted in the seat before it got to you.

 

[juniorm33]

I'm just curious, why would it be a bad thing to send the burn-in boards to customers? Is there a chance of greatly reduced life? Is there any other wear and tear that would have some effect on it's performance? To me, it seems like with the burn-in boards you know that they have been tested really thoroughly and the build quality is quite good. I really don't have any strong feelings on this one way or the other, just wondering why 'virgin' boards are better than boards that have been tested for a few weeks?

It's like buying a demo model car. It might only have 2000 KM on it, and you may think that's nothing, but who knows how many people farted in the seat before it got to you.

You bastard I was drinking when I read that, nearly choked!
But yea your right!

 

[Dead1nside]

I'm confused. Just what the hell kind of factory allows members of the public in to help out without first screening them all, insuring them all against injury and making them sign a contract? That is the most bizarre thing i ever heard.

I'm a bit puzzled by this call (joking?) for voluntary labour. I don't particularly want my Pandora assembled by a novice. Nor do I want a board that's been used for stress testing, despite them all reportedly holding up well, it' still been pushed quite hard for a long time; who knows if in the future it might fail because of it.

 

[cobaltage]

Edit: Also wanted to mention that the space that the pandora occupies is quite unique, and isn't really competing on the same level as the n900. The n900 is a phone, this is not. This is a gaming device, the n900 is not. I think that people who are interested in a portable non-phone platform will be quite interested in this over a lot of the other choices.

I wasn't trying to suggest that the N900 is the same as the Pandora. What I meant was that the internal components and high screen resolution are featured on a number of devices coming to market now, including smartphones and in particular MIDs (e.g., the Archos 5 IMT). If the Pandora had been completed a year ago, it would have been first to market, sporting features that are based on having these components: good performance, longer battery life, good resolution for web browsing. But that didn't happen. Right now, there is interest in all of these devices because they have the same internals and therefore a relative performance upgrade in comparison with previous generation devices. Although the Pandora isn't the first device benefiting from its hardware specs, the very fact that the press is covering this whole range of products right now can actually be a good thing for the Pandora, simply because it is a unique device -- provided it gets some coverage as a real device.

Basically, I think of the Pandora as a handheld gaming platform and a mobile internet device (MID). There may be those who think of it primarily as a gaming device. But IMO, the general gadget-loving public is more interested in the combination of the two. For instance, when both the DSi and the PSP Go were announced, people expressed disappointment that they weren't more like MIDs -- that they didn't have a more powerful CPU, a higher screen resolution, or a real browser. The path to more mainstream interest in the Pandora, I think, doesn't lie in convincing people to give up proprietary handheld gaming, but in convincing people that the Pandora is a MID with full gaming controls. People will play games on pretty much any device they own, whether they buy it for that reason or not. As a device, the Pandora competes more with MIDs than with let's say the NDS. There's no need not to have an NDS as well as a MID, since they don't compete on cost or features. But who would get a Pandora and an Archos 5 IMT? They cost about the same, are similarly portable, and perform similar generic tasks.

So IMO the Pandora is in fact in competition with MIDs, despite its unique design. If you look at it from that perspective, I think the Pandora competes extremely well, because of its unique design. The gaming controls make the Pandora a better gaming device than a regular MID. At the same time, the keyboard makes the Pandora more practical than a regular MID. (No one seems to be making a MID with a keyboard right now. Nor have we seen the ARM CPU based "smartbooks" that were on the gadget blogs over the past year.) Where it doesn't stack up well against MIDs is potentially in the following areas: not having a fully optimized mobile OS or UI, lack of 3G modem, and not having Flash support (as has been demonstrated on the N900 and the Archos 5 IMT -- meaning that it is possible on a similar chipset and therefore a potential device feature).

Anyway, that's all I have to say about the issue. I really just want my Pandora, and I'm just using this topic as a way of killing time.

 

[emil10001]

I'm just curious, why would it be a bad thing to send the burn-in boards to customers? Is there a chance of greatly reduced life? Is there any other wear and tear that would have some effect on it's performance? To me, it seems like with the burn-in boards you know that they have been tested really thoroughly and the build quality is quite good. I really don't have any strong feelings on this one way or the other, just wondering why 'virgin' boards are better than boards that have been tested for a few weeks?

It's like buying a demo model car. It might only have 2000 KM on it, and you may think that's nothing, but who knows how many people farted in the seat before it got to you.

Eh, I don't really see it like that. It's just the boards, not the entire unit. So, perhaps it'd be more akin to buying a car who's engine had been tested for 2000 KM. I'm just wondering if the devs think that the burn-in testing would reduce the use-life of the unit. If it does, then they are definitely making the right decision, not sending them to customers. If the life is not reduced, or is not reduced beyond some margin of error in terms of the lifespan of the board, then why not send them to users?

I guess what I'm really asking is if this is something that there are solid reasons for, or just something that 'feels' like the right thing to do.


EDIT:
@cobaltage - Yea, I pretty much agree with you. There have been one or two units of similar appearance, and form-factor to pop up recently, but their prices were outrageous. That's another thing that the pandora has going for it, the price. But yes, I agree that it is competing in the MID market, as well as the handheld gaming market, and even the handheld computing market (where I think it does the best for price vs performance). And I do agree that they need to be able to grab the attention of people who would otherwise buy some other device. However, I think that the team really needs to plan this carefully, for the reasons that I have stated above, so that the press coverage doesn't backfire on them. They would have the potential to draw a lot of attention at one time by getting interest generated by the press, and they have to be able to hold that interest until they have something to sell. So, they need to think carefully about how to do that. I think the best way is to not draw that attention until after the users are satisfied, have worked out some of the initial bugs in the software, and are close enough to taking second-batch orders so that people will stick around and wait for them.

 

[Critical_Impact]

I'm confused. Just what the hell kind of factory allows members of the public in to help out without first screening them all, insuring them all against injury and making them sign a contract? That is the most bizarre thing i ever heard.

I'm a bit puzzled by this call (joking?) for voluntary labour. I don't particularly want my Pandora assembled by a novice. Nor do I want a board that's been used for stress testing, despite them all reportedly holding up well, it' still been pushed quite hard for a long time; who knows if in the future it might fail because of it.

If the Pandora assembly is less complicated the a DS then I don't see a problem. TI or whoever is assembling them probably have low-paid staff anyway. Just make them sign a liability waiver and get em to work. I'd love to assemble Pandoras, being a part of that would be awesome, and I know I'd do an awesome job :lol:

As for the stress tested boards, it really depends how stress tested they are, if they really did send out stress tested boards perhaps they could give them a slightly longer warranty to take into account the fact they have been pushed to the limits?

 

[Aimless_E]

Yes, Wizardstan is right, these will be a small test run of real cases.

If they are okay we will make up a batch of Pandora consoles and send them out, probably to devs (so they have a free unit to reward them for their work) and for press reviews.

Then we will start building the rest. We are aiming to have a good supply going out by the end of November.

People in the Dallas area are welcome to come and help us build these as they come off the production line (as long as we get permission), it would speed things up.

Wow, could the adventure finally be over?

I live in the Dallas/Fortworth area. Let me know when you need the slav....volunteers.

 

[Aimless_E]

I'm confused. Just what the hell kind of factory allows members of the public in to help out without first screening them all, insuring them all against injury and making them sign a contract? That is the most bizarre thing i ever heard.

I'm a bit puzzled by this call (joking?) for voluntary labour. I don't particularly want my Pandora assembled by a novice. Nor do I want a board that's been used for stress testing, despite them all reportedly holding up well, it' still been pushed quite hard for a long time; who knows if in the future it might fail because of it.

TI,afaik, is only making the boards, the cases,keymaps,control nubs,etc are being assembled by the Pandora team as a cost cutting measure and pretty standard for niche products. I'm sure that once the systems are put together I'm sure that there will be testing for each unit before it is boxed and shipped to Europe.

As far as novices being a part of the process I see no problem with it. Dell and HP are full of assembly line workers that can't even spell CPU let alone point one out on a motherboard. If they can't turn a screwdriver or connect ribbon cables properly then they can test the individual components once the more capable have finished assembly.

 

[Tor]

If the Pandora assembly is less complicated the a DS then I don't see a problem. TI or whoever is assembling them probably have low-paid staff anyway. Just make them sign a liability waiver and get em to work. I'd love to assemble Pandoras, being a part of that would be awesome, and I know I'd do an awesome job :lol:

NO! Absolutely not. It would be completely unacceptable. NOBODY without proper ESD training should be let even into the same room as where the boards are handled. Anyone who thinks differently is simply totally ignorant.

 

[emil10001]

TI,afaik, is only making the boards, the cases,keymaps,control nubs,etc are being assembled by the Pandora team as a cost cutting measure and pretty standard for niche products. I'm sure that once the systems are put together I'm sure that there will be testing for each unit before it is boxed and shipped to Europe.

TI is not making the boards. And, IIRC there was a post somewhere that they were going to have the factory in Texas assemble the units, to save time, even though it would be an expense.

EDIT:
@Tor - I'm sure the factory has a one-day training session for their new employees. They could probably do something like that for volunteers, if the factory is willing to let volunteers help - which I kind of doubt they would.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Will the second batch also be sold via pre-orders? Will this pre-order stage start soon? Maybe that could be a reason to capture more attention at this point.

Probably for the second batch to become a reality, pre-orders are needed. It's not like OpenPandora has the deep pockets to pay for the production costs on their own.

Maybe for a bigger, more well funded, company it would be possible to produce a batch out of their cash reserves, and only take pre-orders with a few weeks time before shipping.

But it seems to me that's not possible for OpenPandora. So maybe second batch pre-orders are nearer that one would think (but of course, after they have ~4000 happy Pandora owners).

In that case it would make sense to try getting some more attention, specially combined with ~4000 Pandora owners spreading the word at the same time.

As for the waiting, not everyone is deterred by it, as some of you guys experienced personally. I'm lucky I got in just in time, I don't think I could've handled the wait as well.

 

[emil10001]

Will the second batch also be sold via pre-orders? Will this pre-order stage start soon? Maybe that could be a reason to capture more attention at this point.

Probably for the second batch to become a reality, pre-orders are needed. It's not like OpenPandora has the deep pockets to pay for the production costs on their own.

Maybe for a bigger, more well funded, company it would be possible to produce a batch out of their cash reserves, and only take pre-orders with a few weeks time before shipping.

But it seems to me that's not possible for OpenPandora. So maybe second batch pre-orders are nearer that one would think (but of course, after they have ~4000 happy Pandora owners).

In that case it would make sense to try getting some more attention, specially combined with ~4000 Pandora owners spreading the word at the same time.

As for the waiting, not everyone is deterred by it, as some of you guys experienced personally. I'm lucky I got in just in time, I don't think I could've handled the wait as well.

Quote from CraigIX (10 October 2009 - 01:19 PM):
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/49910-second-batch/page__view__findpost__p__762080

There are no plans in place for the second batch right now, it is unlikely it will be a couple of months after the first. I'm much more interested in looking after the first 4000 people who allowed us to make this console and trusted us to deliver.

There will be more information on the second batch after Christmas I'm sure.