A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)

[ShleeDragon]

This is some bullshit all things considered.


I'm hoping the iCP2 can be a complete success with no major problems... Gain Craig some credibility, by letting him run something that isn't tainted by the past.


Time will tell.

 

[darkborn]

And he's using his own customers as hostages

This is the best, shortest description.


I warn you all: this is not by accident, this is the way of living ("doing business"); "you are as strong as how many people needs you."


Craig thinks that most people are weak (which is true), and will continue to suck him because ... they don't have choice. (shouldn't be true)


Please, hush, quiet, make it stay status quo, because if you don't you will break this sick circle... and won't get what you need. My Precioussss...


Well, I do not want anybody else become fresh meat and get hooked on this, just to save my ass ("get my precious").


Because Craig already count on this. On our weakness. We should be quiet so that he continue with this weird, selfish game?


I am talking about responsibility, I really don't want new victims.


Thanks Crom that we got ED who made strength to cut that circle.


And look at it now:


Nooo, My Precious, it's not me: THEY are evil, those naughty Skeezix and Notaz and Fatih and... those nasty sleazy Hobbits.


F*CK GREED.


Bright side is, here are thousands of honest and mature people involved, ready to help this project continue and evolve.


I am sure that if ED ask for help now, he will get it as much as possible.


Look at Humble Bundle project: they got millions because this project is build on honesty.


This is why I believe in Pandora. Confidence AND honesty. This is the way to go.

Well, he gave me an answer via mail. I asked how many 1GHz, how many refunds and how many remaining old preorders are still left.


Only got one number, so I guess it's a total...?


According to him, he got many units back with broken LCD Cables, Cases, PCBs, etc.


That's why he got about 700 remaining preorders. The number is high, but it's not an impossible issue.


It's puzzling to me though... he must've gotten over 400 totally broken, unfixable Pandoras back, and that is 10x more I ever got.


At least we got something now... if it is accurate.

700 is nothing imho. But "that 70" is waaay to much.


And, you can't be sure, could you? So it is pointless without a prove.

On a sidenote, I have no idea what's the problem with the website.


He keeps asking me via eMail whether I'll bring the website online now or not. I even sent him via eMail that I'll bring it online once the order page has been fixed (as mentioned here as well), but all I get as a reply is the question when I'll bring it online.


I'm totally clueless here what to do. Should I just hack around in the HTML code myself to fix it and bring it online?

Please ED, do it. I think that is what Mr. Rothwell wants, just can't... say it. You know, My Preciousss syndrome.


Please do it, ask for help if needed, time is running up Ho-ho-ho...

<snip>


What I do know is that every time I try to bring up the Pandora on some gaming related forum, there is always someone around who feels scammed by the whole thing, and that's usually the end of any useful discussion (never mind the price problem).

This is why this project should be decontaminated first so that can continue.

I hope he has the decency to try and fix this mess.

Dream on.

 

[Link]

@Grench,


I agree with your post. Funny thing is I've wound up supporting Craig's US customers on repairs, whereas he just sends his to ED and hasn't been doing any since?

 

[klapse]

I was also one of the fools that took the bait and sent more money to get a 1GHz model because I believed in the project. Because I was late to the party again I might be one of the unlucky ones to get screwed out of 700 bones.

You are in a difficult position as a preorderer who has upgraded already - no chance to upgrade for immediate shipping - need to wait for new sales and upgrades to fund your unit. Based on Edstimates, it will take a few weeks for current sales to fund the next batch of 70 1ghz preorders.

So yes I too must loudly disagree with any suggestions of seeing Craig go bankrupt. I hope he has the decency to try and fix this mess.

He apparently is trying, just not in a very cooperative, effective, transparent or mature manner.


What some people expressed is simply the desire that Ed not be personally liable for all outstanding prorders, in case new sales/upgrades dont cover all the preorders. Since Ed really isn't legally liable for Craig' preorders, Openpandora Ltd declaring bankruptcy would be the most equitable last resort, as it spreads one large financial loss to many creditors in small amounts.


Ideally, if some sort of out-of-court settlement could be made with CC, for roughly 1/2 of the 300,000 dollars lost, that could fund approx 400 classic preorder units. Wishful thinking i guess...

 

[EvilDragon]

The way he has it set up, ED gets orders from only mainland Europe. All other geographies go to Craig's queue.


If he follows ED's suggestion, presenting the 3 shops to order from equally, he would logically loose sales from the Americas (North & South) to Link, loose sales from all mainland Europe, Asia and Africa to ED - and be stuck with just the few that come from Britain and Her Majesties protectorates.


Craig is a self admitted sales guy. Sales guys spend a big chunk of their time figuring out how to game the system. He knows that he got most of the US/world orders because the OpendPandora.org web site defaulted to his store. He doesn't want to loose these territories to Link/ED.


To ED, this is about having the web site be open and legal. So that it presents all three selling shops equally and allows the consumer choice to where they are going - and to have it take orders on each of the respective store's site.


To Link, this legitimizes his shop.


To CraigIX, doing it ED's way is a huge loss in sales territory. Having the main store not default sales to him would feel like a theft of market.


In this case, however, I think ED holds all of the cards. He stands on the 'righ & fair' side of the equation. But I can also see why Craig is going to fight tooth and nail to try to prevent it from happening.


It's like a fiscal cliff in a microcosm analogue.

That can't really be it.


I have no issues if the sales outside mainland Europe would go to his shop.


But there's a legal issue if the shop is directly include.


If there would be a link to "GBAX" where he setup a shop, it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[DreamWave]

won't work well, it seems that only something like 1/5 of people posts...

Wouldn't it give more information than nothing? />


perhpas not worth it though? i don't really know

I think the thread should consist of people only posting one single post that they are in Craigs list and their order date. No discussion or memes. And it should be stickied for a while.


Problem for ED is going to be how to validate who actually ordered or not if Craig is unwilling or unable to provide ED with a complete list.

You can't do this via the forum. It's either email or some other simple webpage. It needs to be usable without any registering and the contents sent must contain proof of purchase (i.e. email discussion or something). Counting is done from headers/subject/topic, and optimally the proof is never needed unless there's suspicion that the numbers are simply too staggering to be true...


If this requires any kind of registration people will skip it - just look at me. 4 years of lurking! Often I've wanted to comment, but could not be bothered with the registration (YES even when it is as trivial as it is) that's just the way we lurkers typically are! Make it a web form or an email and you will get a pretty accurate figure in just a few weeks.


But effortless is the keyword here...

 

[skeezix]

Well, he gave me an answer via mail. I asked how many 1GHz, how many refunds and how many remaining old preorders are still left.


Only got one number, so I guess it's a total...?


According to him, he got many units back with broken LCD Cables, Cases, PCBs, etc.


That's why he got about 700 remaining preorders. The number is high, but it's not an impossible issue.


It's puzzling to me though... he must've gotten over 400 totally broken, unfixable Pandoras back, and that is 10x more I ever got.

At this point, do you basicly have to get the _actual details_ from him.. order numbers, addresses, etc, so you can verify this info? I mean, not suggesting you are sending him units and he's doing who knows what with them, but just to know what is actually what. If it seems a high number then... verify it?


*shrug*


jeff


So whats the status update on iCP2? I know the original ship-target was Nov (and pretty much unachievable even at best), but now they're working on backlit keyboard; they're not set up for production yet last we heard. What is the new ship target date? are parts ordered? casing is finalized? (did it need changes for the backlighting?)

 

[MooTheKow]

Well, he gave me an answer via mail. I asked how many 1GHz, how many refunds and how many remaining old preorders are still left.


Only got one number, so I guess it's a total...?


According to him, he got many units back with broken LCD Cables, Cases, PCBs, etc.


That's why he got about 700 remaining preorders. The number is high, but it's not an impossible issue.


It's puzzling to me though... he must've gotten over 400 totally broken, unfixable Pandoras back, and that is 10x more I ever got.

At this point, do you basicly have to get the _actual details_ from him.. order numbers, addresses, etc, so you can verify this info? I mean, not suggesting you are sending him units and he's doing who knows what with them, but just to know what is actually what. If it seems a high number then... verify it?


*shrug*


jeff


So whats the status update on iCP2? I know the original ship-target was Nov (and pretty much unachievable even at best), but now they're working on backlit keyboard; they're not set up for production yet last we heard. What is the new ship target date? are parts ordered? casing is finalized? (did it need changes for the backlighting?)

All pre-orders for iCP2 should be shipped in 2 months.

 

[ibisum]

Arrggh.

 

[palstyo]

what he post is


>we will end up not shipping these until Jan/Feb


So see what happen I can get it on schedule or not... may be not

 

[palstyo]

ED


Quick question.


Some of user in Pandora Japanese forum ask me is there any other way to donate?


I also check it but currently Paypal does not accept donate from Japan(may be they change policy? coz. I did it before when you ask donation)


So do you have any other way to accept donation except bank transfer?


Bank transfer is really costly especially sending from Japan coz. of higher bank charge.


Please advice.

 

[EvilDragon]

I should be able to do this using credit cards as well. Need to check that though.

 

[palstyo]

I should be able to do this using credit cards as well. Need to check that though.

That's great. :wub:


Thank you so much for you quick reply.

 

[Esn]

Well, he gave me an answer via mail. I asked how many 1GHz, how many refunds and how many remaining old preorders are still left.


Only got one number, so I guess it's a total...?

This is like those Chinese factories, isn't it? The only way to get a straight answer may just be to go there in person and see things for yourself...

 

[drenyx]

I still find it hard to believe that Craig is talking crap about ED, who has taken on all the new risks to bail the project out. If the investors ED found want to recover their money at whatever point, however that is arranged, they are only going to go looking for that money back from ED, not Craig. After trash talking and saying that ED is the one dragging everything down, he STILL refuses to give any detailed numbers. Myself and countless others have been asking for an update with numbers for the past 2 years.


Craig, please fill this in:


Remaining preorders/orders not shipped (non-1Ghz): _____


Remaining preorders/orders not shipped (1Ghz): _____


Number of people refund requested and money not yet sent: ____


If you are unable to do this, it is clear you haven't kept any decent records and shouldn't be doing business. I will again say it seems like you will only make an effort if it seems to benefit you. I don't expect this to be responded to (daring you to prove me wrong) as ED and others have said you just ignore things you don't like. You can't go around and blame your partner in business and then not supply them with information critical to having things work. These are the reasons no one cares when you want to point the finger at anyone else, you don't seem to take care of your own issues.

 

[Godmil]

There are a lot of posts in this thread saying what Craig thinks about some things and what his motivation is in others... But did any of you consider what it might be like to be in dept for what? Quarter of a million? With hundreds of people looking for money/products from you, while being ostricised and scapegoated by the community you helped establish?


We all know Craig isn't perfect... But he's certainly not a scheming snake-oil salesman like many imagine.


Having said that though there are some fantastically constructive posts in this thread, so thank you guys for those.

 

[kasp]

Man.. here's a good question:


Who is crazier:


John McAfee and 'the Belize government is out to get me!!!!' or Craigix and 'All these people who have donated thousands of hours of their time to try to help make my project successful are out to get me!!!'

Well to be fair to McAfee he was raided a few times prior to the current event and had been saying the Belize government was out to get him for a long time. Not sure why he just wouldn't move though. Sounds more like he has some mental issues.

 

[rohezal]

There are a lot of posts in this thread saying what Craig thinks about some things and what his motivation is in others... But did any of you consider what it might be like to be in dept for what? Quarter of a million? With hundreds of people looking for money/products from you, while being ostricised and scapegoated by the community you helped establish?


We all know Craig isn't perfect... But he's certainly not a scheming snake-oil salesman like many imagine.


Having said that though there are some fantastically constructive posts in this thread, so thank you guys for those.

This, lets get back to the positive. We know ED must sell some pandoras but with drop shipping, links shop and donation it will most likely work. And some advertising from craig maybe.

 

[moxie]

A little bit off topic, but a few people have mentioned the lack of thanks received by a lot of the guys who put so much work in to make the Pandora possible (design, firmware, software, distributions, hardware, repositories, whatever) and I know that thanks is something you really want to receive from Craig, but for what it is worth, I, and hundreds or thousands of other people are very thankful for all the hard work. So thank you! For those lucky enough to actually have a Pandora, it still amazes me every time I flip the lid open and use it. It really is quite amazing what has been accomplished (even more so when all the problems faced are considered).

Indeed, and seconded. And a thank you to Craig, too - A bunch of people above go "Oh, it seems he only, like, had the idea and kicked off, anyone can do that"...No. Not anyone can do that. It takes a special kind of mad genius to do that and push it through.

 

[moxie]

Some of us have:


a) Met Craig and ED in person.

My tired mind read "Met Craig and ED in prison". I'm glad we're not there yet