A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)

[bismuthdrummer]

I just wanted to add for the record, I like both Craig and ED a lot, and I have defended them both from "attacks". I think they're both excellent and talented people in their own right with less flaws than what the people on the forums will paint in caricature. I know I'm not alone in wanting them to at least be able to work formally together, but I also am in full agreement that a good face-to-face is what's really needed here, whether they can get over the differences or not.

 

[GigaPower]

The bottom line is that more Pandora's need to be sold in order for the current situation to be rectified. None of this is really helping anyone, if I was a potential customer coming to the boards for the first time I'd run a mile after reading this thread.


What's done is done and no amount of arguing and trying to place blame is going to change that. I really hope Craig and ED can sit down and work through their differences. With everything this project has had to go through to get this far, it would be a crying shame to see it end like this.


Just remember that this project is far more than just the hardware, it's about the community too.

 

[overgauss]

We need to find the best solutions for the typical Pandora use-cases, not just blindly take the highest specs of everything. ~ED

I'm guessing this is one of the things Craigix is talking about. For instance people railed against a 5 inch 1080p screen during the time frame that every other device expected to hit the market would have it (2013-2014). Often using the same difference DVD supporters had against Blu Ray, in that, the human eye can't make any real discernable difference and to upgrade would be too expensive.


I agree that BOTH parties should do more discussion in the background and provide a unified front in public. Craigix has been attacked from every angle for things largely not his fault and when he states his case, is attacked for it.


...

Please don't reply to my posts, the logical leaps from a topic about P1 to a quote in my signature to the P2 is such a confusing disconnect, the spam here will only degrade the situation.

You first.


My post is relevant because it was around this time ED was talking about splitting off and doing his own thing because of the specs issue. Or bleeding edge issue as you like to call it. It illustrates a history of disagreements on varied things and was mentioned in response to something Craigix said in this very thread.


If it is bothersome to you just ignore it next time.

 

[overgauss]

One thing

I just wanted to add for the record, I like both Craig and ED a lot, and I have defended them both from "attacks". I think they're both excellent and talented people in their own right with less flaws than what the people on the forums will paint in caricature. I know I'm not alone in wanting them to at least be able to work formally together, but I also am in full agreement that a good face-to-face is what's really needed here, whether they can get over the differences or not.

is not like the other

Craig,


We need diplomacy, not accusations that take us nowhere. The people who have formulated their image of you aren't bound to change, so please take this discussion out of the boxing ring and into a private conference.


If you truly still want help I'm skilled in software and can pitch in on the website, just pm me what needs to be done yet. I thought your work was good.


~David


EDIT: And since you are having issues contacting ED, he has a public forum where you can notify him.

And people want to know why. "My way or the highway", to paraphrase, isn't exactly a fulfilling answer to most people.

I think the goal here is to have an open discussion about balanced choices for the P2, but of course Craig insists on "nothing but the best" to paraphrase him again, and ED's voice of reason calms the audience a bit.

SAUCE

 

[bismuthdrummer]

I like Craig, but I criticize his disclosure of feelings about ED on a public forum. ED did as well, I'm not saying he was right to reply either.


And I criticize you for trolling, Overgauss. Stop, child.

 

[overgauss]

My point remains that you did not, nor have not ever, criticized them equally.


It's why I agreed that they BOTH should take it behind the scenes, and even said so long before you did in this very thread. pwnt.

Spoiler

Craigix is in a pickle and Ed is trying to help. The current sentiment being expressed is the reason why I tried to impart a sense of urgency to the community. It was not well recieved partly due to the fact that I'm a lousy communicator and other character flaws. This would be a good time for the community to really pull together and make the things that needs to happen, happen.


Although we are past the blame game we need to address the failings and look forwards to the future and use every available means that the community possesses to ensure the dream stays alive. The current styles of donations are an excellent start and I would encourage them to continue. However that alone can not shore up the holes fast enough. We need community leaders to take action and focus on diverse and key areas such that we generate interest, sales, and maintain a positive tone through open and frank communication. We need to manage the expectations of consumers and potential consumers better than we are currently.


Blaming CC, Craigix and what have you is the easy thing. Actually getting off our arse and addressing the issue with a call to arms is the hard thing. I know. I tried. Feel free to beat me up as much as you wish btw, I only ask that while you do that you actually attempt to generate results in a timely fashion to reduce/repair our current situation.


I know most of you have your pandoras. I know most of you are confident with Ed's shop. I know that most of you feel that really this isn't your problem. I'm here to tell you that in the long run this actually is your problem if you want to see the continued success of the OPT dream.


Like I said, donations are a great start. Let's figure out how to generate even more donations by varying the types of ways that people can donate. Pay what you want type donations for certain downloads, t-shirts/hats, pre-installed SD cards. WHATEVER you can think of. Let's increase sales by advertising through both conventional and unconventional means. Let's figure out ways to step up our game (for instance I've mentioned press kits in the past).


The pre-order issue is propagating through the 1ghz issue and will continue unless we reset our mentality and actively seek (in a non-leisurely fashion) to address what is rapidly becoming a large issue. Don't take my advice. Listen to those community leaders willing to and able to step up to the plate and raise the bar higher than previously believed possible. Hate me as you wish but DO SOMETHING. Leave Ed and Craigix out of the equation unless necessary and allow them to discuss certain issues behind closed doors without all this speculation and finger pointing.


You guys are really going to be pissed if sometime in the future, I come back with an "I told you so" post, because it would have been true and you would rather spend time slaying the messenger rather than the dragon (NOT ED) breathing at our door.

 

[vcoleiro1]

^ Enough guys. It's a bad enough situation without having community members argue over nothing

 

[overgauss]

Dude. You don't understand. Someone is clearly wrong on the internet. Keys must be pressed!

 

[ibisum]

I own a bar-restaurant in Amsterdam. I have an office next to it. I can offer privacy, food and drink. That will be my donation. There is a new Easyhotel at 1 minute walking (affordable and brand new and clean) and I can pick the guys up from the airport. They need facetime, this much is obvious.

Never mind them, lets have a Pandora meet at your bar and party!

 

[klapse]

The problem is that he isn't. Ask him where the 800 units he promised me are.


He will no doubt tell you he has not been able to get enough sales to send me them.


Then ask him why he refuses and disrupts my attempts to help him get those sales.


My hands are tied. I cannot send you what Ed does not send me.


As I've previously said, I've no idea what is going on anymore with Ed, but I find it hard to believe


he has not sold enough units in the last 3 months to cover those 70 he says I owe him money for.

I assume the 70 units referred to is the 1Ghz test-run upgrade group? Didn't we give you the money to purchase those? Were you expecting to just sell 70 units off some credit that ED owed you and use our cash for something else?

These are important questions.

 

[jabz]

The airing of Criag's dirty laundry publically is not ED's fault. ED cant keep silent while Criag publically lashes out with baseless accusations. Ed responded to each and every point Craig made. The answers make a lot of sense and we've known some of them for a while, I can't understand why the fuck Craig simply cannot comprehend them, it's simply bloody obvious why he won't get 800 original preorder units and why Ed won't ship him any more of the 1GHz units. FFS Craig you don't need an accounting degree to work it out!


That said it's a bit naive to think Craig will now front up for a face to face, Ed can't get proper comms via email and now you think Craig's gonna jump on a fricken plan to Europe, if he was the least bit interested in salvaging any of this he would have done this a while ago. As well as promote the hell out of the Pandora prior to Christmas, he does have his own shop and orders, as stated by Ed this was Craigs choice so I don't see why he hasn't generated the promotion for his operation.

 

[overgauss]

Well done. This should help considerably.

 

[jabz]

Well done. This should help considerably.

If you're talking about my post then thanks /> at least I'm on topic!

 

[Smasher]

Can I remind everyone that is replying to this thread that both Michael and Craig are human.

Yeah I second this.


To have a full time job and then run this as a sideline and put up with the amount of flak for doing so... People can only take so much, and its hardly like Open Pandora is a full on company like Sony with a separate dept for customer service, accounting, ordering, repairs and the like. These people are pretty much doing things themselves with the limited time they have each day. Admittedly clarity would help with some (those that are still waiting), but in some respects it shouldn't make a difference for others (those that are not).

 

[RobeeJay]

Well, I'm still no clearer as to when I may ever get my Pandora.


I sort of feel that perhaps I might get it one day (I tend to feel this way whenever ED posts), but since the last reply to any of my emails regarding my order was April 2011, in which Jacquelyn said they were shipping 950-1250 and I was in position 1550-1650, I have no idea when.


I mean you could sort of infer from that information that I was at worst 700 in the queue, but without any current information it may as well be 7000.


Actually, whilst the above was the last reply to any of my emails, it wasn't the last reply from Craig I had. That was to a PM via these forums, which went as follows:

Changing my email address for Pandora order


Hi,


My old email address is no longer working. It was xxxxxxxxxxxxx, my new one is yyyyyyyyyy.


My order number is GVVZZZZZZZZZZ

To which I got a reply that sums up about everything for me...

Ah, right, that email already went out to you at the old address.

Do you want to upgrade to the 1Ghz?

 

[klapse]

The problem is that he isn't. Ask him where the 800 units he promised me are.


He will no doubt tell you he has not been able to get enough sales to send me them.

The what? Is this the first time we have heard about these? There isn't anything in the business plan revealed earlier by Ed about sending 800 units up front, without sales/upgrades to pay for them. So yes, the plan was to ship preorder units to your customers based on revenues from new sales/upgrades - not 800 units in a big christmas box. Where in all of this is Ed at fault?


Oh holding up your promotion efforts? How on earth is Ed preventing you from promotion/advertising the product? By not putting your half-finished website online? There were good reasons not to.


We asked for transparency and in turn you deliver transparent misrepresentations, man.

 

[klapse]

Ah, right, that email already went out to you at the old address.

Do you want to upgrade to the 1Ghz?

If you can afford it do it. You get a much better device and fast shipping and reduce the queue.

 

[RobeeJay]

If you can afford it do it. You get a much better device and fast shipping and reduce the queue.

I can't.


And my general point was, the reply's only interest in the fact my email address had changed, was the fact I never got an email about trying to sell me the upgrade.

 

[notaz]

I know I'm not alone in wanting them to at least be able to work formally together, but I also am in full agreement that a good face-to-face is what's really needed here, whether they can get over the differences or not.

Do you really think this boils down to some sort of personal differences?


I've learned my lesson long ago, never ever have anything to do with Craig..

 

[ibisum]

I think its pretty clear that there has just been, plain and simple, financial mismanagement. ED is owed money by Craig, and Craig just simply hasn't paid it. I gather that all ED wants is for Craig to pay his bills, and to stop spending money if he's not actually making money to pay those bills.