A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)

[bismuthdrummer]

Craig,


We need diplomacy, not accusations that take us nowhere. The people who have formulated their image of you aren't bound to change, so please take this discussion out of the boxing ring and into a private conference.


If you truly still want help I'm skilled in software and can pitch in on the website, just pm me what needs to be done yet. I thought your work was good.


~David


EDIT: And since you are having issues contacting ED, he has a public forum where you can notify him.

 

[drenyx]

So instead of doing anything anyone has ever asked you to do, you go off and do what you want because that's apparently what needs to be done, then whine when no one likes it.


Quickly now wishing I hadn't scraped up the money I don't have (again) and backed the icp2. 2 months ago.


ED: let me be just one voice from the community to say I don't think anyone believes you did anything other than your very best to try and move things forward.

 

[overgauss]

We need to find the best solutions for the typical Pandora use-cases, not just blindly take the highest specs of everything. ~ED

I'm guessing this is one of the things Craigix is talking about. For instance people railed against a 5 inch 1080p screen during the time frame that every other device expected to hit the market would have it (2013-2014). Often using the same difference DVD supporters had against Blu Ray, in that, the human eye can't make any real discernable difference and to upgrade would be too expensive.


I agree that BOTH parties should do more discussion in the background and provide a unified front in public. Craigix has been attacked from every angle for things largely not his fault and when he states his case, is attacked for it.


If ED really wants help beyond answering his emails and ticketing systems for his company, why not provide the means for the community to do so in an organized fashion? If Craigix is moving too slow and ED is too busy to handle it himself, why not appoint forum members to administer the tasks that would generate additional sales? If this is a waiting game spurred by behind the scenes disagreements on certain issues like the specs of the P2, who can afford to wait the longest?


It's been over two months now since the cry for help, what has been done in that regard?

 

[ekianjo]

Good post ED. Sooner or later the truth has to come out, it's unfortunate it had to go in a public form like that but this does not reflect very well on Craig in the end.


If there is to be a new project after the Pandora 1, I do hope this will be led by ED only, because he has proven many times to be open, honest and reliable. This attitude has probably sold and delivered more Pandoras to users than anyone else.

 

[overgauss]

ED handles software, Craigix hardware. Good luck with that.

 

[Chock]

Besides all what's been said here on how the situation could still be worked out, the worst thing is that there are probably other people like me, who are even ready to drop another 350$ just to get that upgrade a finally be done with it.


I believe we should be the easiest one to take care and get out of queues since we're ready to pay, but even this, is not happening...


Feb 2009 for those who wonder...

 

[ekianjo]

ED handles software, Craigix hardware. Good luck with that.

I am sure there are lots of other capable people who do hardware out there.

 

[MaxNormal]

Yes it is. Please email Craig and tell him you'd like to cross upgrade, and he will give you a reference you can use when you order ftom EDs shop, and he will remove you from his queue.


If you are prepared to do this you are truly awesome.

 

[elwing]

and once more craigX came, bashed at random thing and didn't answered the only questions that concern the community, namely how big is his preorder queue...

 

[ekianjo]

and once more craigX came, bashed at random thing and didn't answered the only questions that concern the community, namely how big is his preorder queue...

Hardly surprising. But he is good at sales, though.

 

[klapse]

Craig, you seem to have lost track of a few things recently and are in a state of denial about it. (Ed owing you hundreds of units?) It reminds me of myself when I was overdoing the alcohol. Either literally or figuratively, you need to sober up.


Go over the points in Ed's response and see what you can -really- do, today and tomorrow. Come clean on the number of open preorders and refunds. Do whatever promotion is realistically possible (I know it is hard). Make videos. Contact reviewers and magazines promoting the product. Remind them of the uniqueness of the product. Maybe sling a new slogan: "Still the only game in town - The OpenPandora"


We want to support you but you also need to take some steps.

 

[Esn]

and once more craigX came, bashed at random thing and didn't answered the only questions that concern the community, namely how big is his preorder queue...

Hardly surprising. But he is good at sales, though.

He is, yes. Actually, Craig reminds me very strongly of this fellow (Moist von Lipwig from the Discworld novels), and the comparison just grows stronger the more years I watch him in action:

(I didn't see the movie, by the way, so I'm only judging based on the books)


A great fellow at stirring up a crowd and not really such a bad guy, but promises things long before they can be delivered and doesn't like sticking around to face the consequences.


A visionary, but one who seems more interested in the chase than in the destination.


If this team really does become split, I'm more likely to stick with ED. The one reason above all others is trust: ED will never refuse to answer uncomfortable questions while Craig will act like the querent is not even in the room, and what is that buzzing noise? I don't hear any buzzing noise.


Of course everyone has to "ignore the haters" to some extent, but not when these are well-meaning customers, vital community members and business partners. If this group of people become treated like "haters" and stonewalled, it's a problem.


At some point, it becomes a question of "no matter what I personally think of Craig, do I think that he's going to be able to finish what he's doing, or will he be abandoned by the people he needs to finish the project?", because a number of important people (programmers particularly) were only kept from leaving the Pandora project because of ED.


This is what it looks like to me from the outside.

 

[overgauss]

I am sure there are lots of other capable people who do hardware out there.

I am too.

 

[bismuthdrummer]

We need to find the best solutions for the typical Pandora use-cases, not just blindly take the highest specs of everything. ~ED

I'm guessing this is one of the things Craigix is talking about. For instance people railed against a 5 inch 1080p screen during the time frame that every other device expected to hit the market would have it (2013-2014). Often using the same difference DVD supporters had against Blu Ray, in that, the human eye can't make any real discernable difference and to upgrade would be too expensive.


I agree that BOTH parties should do more discussion in the background and provide a unified front in public. Craigix has been attacked from every angle for things largely not his fault and when he states his case, is attacked for it.


...

Please don't reply to my posts, the logical leaps from a topic about P1 to a quote in my signature to the P2 is such a confusing disconnect, the spam here will only degrade the situation.

 

[hedwards]

What makes you think he isn't thinking? I don't have any inside information, but the fact is that ultimately, CC caused most of this mess. It's been confirmed mulitple times that they failed to meet the bare minimum requirements on things like the oxidation issue.


I don't really know what's going on internally, but I was personally surprised that Craig's customers weren't receiving units in proportion to the open orders after that cash infusion via the investment plan. I may well have misunderstood it, and ED did explain it a bit when I asked a few months ago. But, the whole situation is confusing and I get the sense that there's some sort of major communications failure going on internally.

Point is word...


Don't explain to me previous situation coz. I know it.


Problem is he use our money for refund and now he did it again.


If he clear all 1GHz unit as he said I didn't say like that.

Then, why did you post what you posted? Anybody that's been following the progress for the last years should know that it was mostly the CC incompetence that caused the mess.

 

[Gotham]

I've had my suspicions for awhile which is why I asked for a refund. After reading ED's post, I'm beginning to believe I sunk over 300 dollars into something that wasn't worth it from the beginning. I'm much more willing to believe ED than I am Craig because ED's been open, he's given numbers, he's given updates. Craig gave us nothing unless he absolutely had to. He seems more interested in the iCP2 than the Pandora and maybe if he gave the same amount of attention to his already outstanding project, things would be a bit smoother. Hell, that'd be a lot smoother.


Honestly, this whole debacle has guaranteed I will never do business with anything involving Craig again. I will also be sure to steer people away from his projects as well, as I rightly should. There's no reason for this mess to begin with because the CC disaster is long past.


The more time passes, the more I consider getting a hold of the Better Business Bureaua and UK Trading Standards.

 

[monty]

Well, I can tell one thing for sure: If you want to work on a Pandora 2, you are welcome to do so. But I won't be involved in that. I might do something on my own when I somehow managed to resolve the Pandora 1 mess, but I will not work anymore on any project together with you.


It's just way too chaotic and messy in my opinion.

It beggars belief that the two of you could continue to operate one 'team' via the medium of semi-answered e-mails, unwritten contracts and two separate companies not formally obligated to co-ordinate strategies with each other for as long as you did. Its also quite suprising that it took you as long as it did to rip each other up on the forums quite as thoroughly as you have just done.


I should bloody hope that you don't intend to make the Pandora 2 under the same relationship. However I do hope that when the time comes you could consider an actual formal relationship; whether that takes the form of one being supplier to the other, one being paid royalties for contributions to the development, or something else. A Pandora 2 would be a whole lot less interesting to me without Craig, and a whole lot less of a secure investment without ED (The Sinclair/Sugar comparison made earlier is a good one). There really isn't the space for you two to compete, however unprofessional your communication has become.


The suggestion that the two of you meet in Holland is probably the best course of action, even if its to mutually shoot each other in the head. Something informal, followed by something formal with a solicitor, followed by your poisons of choice. Then, perhaps, we can have a joint statement from the both of you, because I think that would make everyone feel a lot better. Even, as I say, if its about the break up of your partnership.

 

[Timstertoo]

I own a bar-restaurant in Amsterdam. I have an office next to it. I can offer privacy, food and drink. That will be my donation.


There is a new Easyhotel at 1 minute walking (affordable and brand new and clean) and I can pick the guys up from the airport.


They need facetime, this much is obvious.

 

[THB]

They need an octogon and a mixed martial arts ref.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Perhaps a face off in the Thunder Dome. 2 Pandora Companies enter, 1 Pandora company leaves.