What Do You Think The Pandora Should Feature First?

[God Ginrai]

Wow, Craig said it is NOT ABOUT THE FIRMWARE, only about the pretty menu system and startup video(probably) that happens the first 40 seconds you turn on the Pandora, yet people are daft and are voting for the fluffy file menu you see at boot. Personally, i'd like the simple menu like on the GP2x at launch and a later skin down the line.

Here's a fun scenario to think about when you finally, after months of waiting, get the Pandora:
Mail deliveryman drops box off, you open box, you plug in AC and turn device with preloaded SD in it, you see a supremely polished GUI at boot and swirling, colorful selections for APPS, MUSIC, VIDEOS, GAMES, and SETUP. You now have a great PMP device with gaming controls that only has a small handful of emulators to play like SNES and PSX(maybe) to start. Certainly nice to have, but not the best use of the device. You then check the Pandora file archive loaded with plenty of placeholders for applications and emulators that do not exist natively for the Pandora yet because devs who would be hard work on them are waiting with the rest of us for them while GUI devs are hard at work making an even more exciting bootup feast for the eyes(all 40 seconds worth, yeah). Anything else like NES, Genesis, Gameboy etc.. will have to wait until the older unoptimized GP2x version of your beloved emulator can be ported over in a week, or month, or many months with all the bugs/issues in tow. :rolleyes:

Now, I am not bashing hard work by the emulator devs here so don't flame me if you misunderstand. I really can't see how anyone would want a Pandora with a beautiful startup and a lackluster selection of games to play initially. What I believe is that Orkie and a few others assumed, as Chip stated, that the firmware would take a back seat to emulators, and thus many read their confused posts and jumped on the wrong voting bandwagon, so in my opinion this poll is now useless for it's inaccuracy.

You also got to love the argument that if the GUI sucks, then sales will be hurt in the long run. If this "poll" skewers who gets a dev Pandora and we end up with the situation I described above, then be watchful of all the nice youtube videos of the spicy Pandora GUI and the following comments and questions of "what else does it do?", followed by the proper response initially to all those prospective buyers of "well not much yet".
That would be a perfect way to stutter the Pandora's anticipated launch after all the work that went into it.

Like a well breed thoroughbred out of the gate without a jockey and his saddle. :lol:

Yes, but basic applications are not firmware either. And Craig never said this didn't concern them. And trust me, I've had enough of the bitching from the UMPC crowd, I don't want to see more of their bitching because they don't have some basic apps.

Besides, If you have say: PSX, SNES, MD, and 2 others, that gives you essentially 5 systems. Generally, every system has about 10 good games for it, but let's say there's only 5 each. That gives you 25 games to tide you over while you are waiting for more apps. That's more games than you would have when you buy a new handheld or video game console. Not to mention that it would never be as little as 25 games, because SNES and MD both have such large game libraries that you could easily find 20 good games each.

-God Ginrai

 

[Orkie]

What I believe is that Orkie and a few others assumed

I assume nothing .

 

[God Ginrai]

What I believe is that Orkie and a few others assumed

I assume nothing .


Well then, who is right? You or Craig? You say it is firmware. Craig says it's only GUI.

-God Ginrai

 

[bigtruck]

I think this might have been said in this thread before, but a video showing someone navigating the GUI so we could see its current state would be very helpful. This would have the dual benefits of knowing how functional and polished it is now so we have more solid information upon which to base our votes, as well as letting us offer specific feedback about the GUI. If a good GUI really is as critical as many people here think, then community involvement is paramount. I don't know who specifically is developing the GUI, but a general rule of thumb is that a programmer should never be the only one involved in the design of an interface. What tech-savvy programmer types find simple and intuitive is often convoluted and confusing to average users. We could show a video of the GUI to 8 year old kid or computer-illiterate grandmother (or, ideally, someone with a dev unit could show the real unit to one of those people), and if they say "Wow, that looks confusing", then we know we have a problem.

 

[jmetal88]

All you guys talking about fluff... That's not my idea of a good GUI, as it is also not your idea of a good GUI. Now, I did vote for the GUI. This is not because I want fluff, but because I want a lot of time to be put into an efficient user interface that someone with very little tech skills can use.

 

[dsleaf67]

Then have craig start a new poll with a clearer discription of what the choice relly is because the creator of this one says 'good menu' with apps like audio and video players and 'other stuff'. Of course 'other stuff is vague, but it seems like apps that if not in the firmware would be wanted at launch to compliment the system. Perhaps some of those apps are not part of the firmware to avoid legalities. Chip corrected me earlier, and I remember seeing the post he refered to by craig that mplayer won't be in firmware. If this is the case, I would still hope its available at launch along with 'other stuff'.

 

[plopperz]

Craig should do whatever it is he thinks is in the best interests of the Pandora.

 

[rwip]

QUOTE

Do you want a good menu system superior to the gp2x one featuring a good audio and video player and other stuff


Personally it is that sentence from the very first post that swayed my decision. Therefore that is what I voted for and not just a fluffy gui as some people seem to think a vote for menu means.

Perhaps start a new poll with a list of what features would hopefully be available on launch if you voted menu and same for emu. That way it would be a more informed decision from the voters and less confusion would ensue in the arguments for and against each option. I understand why it was vague but because of that the result will be inaccurate as votes are cast by people who think they will get something they want by voting an option and they misunderstood.

[edit]
Also I think a compromise between the two is welcome. A working easy to use menu system and emulators available to grab at launch. Both are good but neither need to be perfect at launch. I think it comes down too looking at the software lineup with a critical eye and deciding what is weakest at that moment and getting it better. They can both be polished and added too after launch but people probably wouldn't like it if either wasn't up to scratch for use. That's quite visible with all the talk of "fluffy ui but not many games" and similar arguments for "bad ui is a bad first impression and would lack functionality". Please both crowds at launch.

 

[Orkie]

Well then, who is right? You or Craig? You say it is firmware. Craig says it's only GUI.

Oh, it turns out this thread is mostly about the GUI, I was on about the rest of the sentence in my previous post.

 

[God Ginrai]

Well then, who is right? You or Craig? You say it is firmware. Craig says it's only GUI.

Oh, it turns out this thread is mostly about the GUI, I was on about the rest of the sentence in my previous post.


I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're referring to now.

-God Ginrai

 

[Parkydr]

All you guys talking about fluff... That's not my idea of a good GUI, as it is also not your idea of a good GUI. Now, I did vote for the GUI. This is not because I want fluff, but because I want a lot of time to be put into an efficient user interface that someone with very little tech skills can use.

The most efficient user interface is the command line. e.g. type mame and it runs.

Bash FTW as you whippersnappers say.

 

[fusion_power]

I'm sure it is no problem to make a good GUI AND Applications at the same time, even in the Homebrew-scene. A good GUI doesn't mean automaticly a huge bunch of work, if can be simple AND good.
"look & feel" is one important factor during Software Development, at least that was what I've learned in School. GUI and Application, it should be always together.
good GUI Examples onto GP2X: Gmenu2X, Picodrive
bad GUI Example onto GP2X: DosBox (no GUI! )

 

[rmm2131]

What I believe is that Orkie and a few others assumed

I assume nothing .


Fair enough, but Craig stated earlier in the thread that the poll is about the initial interface only(post #23)and that the current GUI menu was better than the GP2X one, to be improved at the end of the year(Post #8). Others assumed that means poor multitasking, missing applications, included bloatware, and crappy media playback if GUI is neglected in favor of emulation over UMPCness. Strange how we see what never was spoken.
Yes, Evildragon mentioned in the first post about a good audio/video player(VLC port), but that does not mean the Pandora with the current interface would lack that functionality, since that is a included upgradable application separately called by the GUI.

I'll say that if GUI is favored over emulation, then many new Pandora recipients on day one will have one fun time after another powering it on, then off, then on just to have something colorful to enjoy, since applications had taken a backseat to menu by this poll.

 

[rahulgarg]

craigix and EvilDragon : Can you please give a hint to whether the base firmware is working to your satisfaction ? By "base" I mean kernel, drivers including GL and wifi, terminal, X11 and important libraries like SDL and finally the compiler toolchain. And what about package manager?

These things are the most basic and given that ED and craigix are now discussing more about the UI and application software, should we assume that the base firmware is working and stable?

 

[rmm2131]

All you guys talking about fluff... That's not my idea of a good GUI, as it is also not your idea of a good GUI. Now, I did vote for the GUI. This is not because I want fluff, but because I want a lot of time to be put into an efficient user interface that someone with very little tech skills can use.

Again, which Craig said will be updated to astonishing around Christmas.

 

[Pickle]

craigix and EvilDragon : Can you please give a hint to whether the base firmware is working to your satisfaction ? By "base" I mean kernel, drivers including GL and wifi, terminal, X11 and important libraries like SDL and finally the compiler toolchain. And what about package manager?

These things are the most basic and given that ED and craigix are now discussing more about the UI and application software, should we assume that the base firmware is working and stable?

Im with you on this.
I think most of us of might be shocked at the current state of the firmware/linux if we really knew. The impression I get is nothing is really ready. Just doesnt seem like the software is being developed as well as the hardware.
All we have seen is some emu's banging on the hw directly. Can we really be talking GUI when we havnt see or heard/seen anything about firmware, kernel, libs?
I hope im wrong, but the Pandora guys havnt shown anything to contrary.

 

[emil10001]

I voted GUI, and like many have posted I'm interested in a stable, semi-intuitive interface that doesn't have to be flashy. I also agree that this is what not only magazines, but tech blogs will be looking at first (the GUI), and that if the GUI can stand on it's own legs, then the Pandora should be pictured with the GUI on the screen as opposed to something that doesn't originate from this project. This will draw interest from the outside crowd. You can tell them what runs well in terms of emulators, but most people know what those games look like, whereas the GUI is something specific to this project that they wouldn't have seen before.

Would it be possible to see the GUI in action? Craig made it sound like it was already pretty close to a 'non-fluff,' working interface. I think that if people saw what was there and were happy with it, then we might be more interested in shifting the focus on to emus or other games.

 

[kloplop321]

All I can say about Applications Vs. GUI is: Get the base of the GUI done, because This should be theme-able, so get the framework in and have a fall back in the case that there is not a theme selected and it would be like Win95/98 style(barebones if you know what I mean)
However the framework must be finished before release because it would be very helpful towards future theming.
I would not use it much for gaming reasons, but for the general population that are possible customers, it should have considerable function in all aspects.

EDIT: Going on about the GUI framework, make it possible to do custom coded affects such as some that are available in the open source code for Compiz. Since Compiz also uses OpenGL, some specific methods should be able to be ported.

I don't think that compiz is realistic...its still not totally stable and I don't think there's a version for ARM. It would certainly be cool though.


I thought I saw someone in a topic earlier on the forum mention that Compiz was too high in SysReqs. Although I could be imagining it.

-God Ginrai


I'm not sure that I'd rule it out based on system requirements. Intel integrated gfx chipsets are powerful enough to run compiz just fine. Pretty much any 3d accelerated gfx hardware will run compiz. Not sure about processor reqs tho.

you guys really went on the WRONG track of what I was saying. The Pandora has a GFX chip that is OpenGL compatible, yes?
I was saying that you could use some of the source code from compiz for the GUI framework that are option-able for the theme developers, NOT a ported version of Compiz for ARM. <_<

 

[Sdw]

I would prefer if the the first batch was sold as 'raw' as possible. Just the hardware, and a basic OS running. That way it would attract the RIGHT people - developers.
I mean, with only 3000 units, you want it in the hands of:
Linux enthusiasts. Demoscene people. People interested in porting games. Emulator developers even. Those are the people that will actually contribute to the system
Focusing on having emulators (even if we ignore legal ramifications) for launch will only have the effect that a large percentage of the units ends up in the hands of people who do nothing but 'OMFG! I CAN PLAY GOLDENEYE!' with their system, instead of someone who do something worthwhile with it.

 

[God Ginrai]

I would prefer if the the first batch was sold as 'raw' as possible. Just the hardware, and a basic OS running. That way it would attract the RIGHT people - developers.
I mean, with only 3000 units, you want it in the hands of:
Linux enthusiasts. Demoscene people. People interested in porting games. Emulator developers even. Those are the people that will actually contribute to the system
Focusing on having emulators (even if we ignore legal ramifications) for launch will only have the effect that a large percentage of the units ends up in the hands of people who do nothing but 'OMFG! I CAN PLAY GOLDENEYE!' with their system, instead of someone who do something worthwhile with it.

What's the point of having a system that is so open for developers without users to use their programs?

-God Ginrai