What Do You Think The Pandora Should Feature First?

[TaG]

The original question wasn't just about a 'fancy GUI':

Do you want a good menu system superior to the gp2x one featuring a good audio and video player and other stuff

As to using BASH, that ain't going to get widespread support.

And you only get one chance at first impressions - bad reviews kill these types of devices dead. We want this to reach far more than the first 3000.

 

[D.C.]

Best of both worlds would be appreciated, an advanced gui for good first impressions with an impressive emulator like PSX to show off the potential of the pandora (assuming zodttd already has a dev kit)

 

[Ravnos]

I don't know what your friends are like, but when mine see me playing goldeneye on this thing their gonna be like "HOLY SH*T YOUR PLAYINF F*CKING GOLDENEYE. I GOTTA GET ME ONE OF THOSE". They wont be like "HOLY SH*T YOUR PLAYING F*CKING GOLDENEYE, but the menu looks rubbish so I'm not gonna buy one..."

Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's THE POINT! And it's flying right over your head.

QUOTE

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but aren't those two statements contradictory? The first one seems correct to me, that the "official" GUI is really more of just a "default" GUI. It can be replaced by others written from scratch or X and a WM. So not everyone is going to be using it. I might even just use the terminal most of the time, and only start up X when browsing (on a side note, why is it impossible to make a text-based browser that can decently handle page layouts?) or playing a game.


I listed all those because everyone here seems to have a preference for what they'd like to see as the default and I'm not trying to pick sides. I just want whatever is used to be to be reasonably functional and intuitive, since alternatives are not likely to hit immediately at launch and I'd like to be able to actually use the thing right off the bat. Odds are pretty good that even if you decide to go with a different GUI down the road, you'll have used the default at least once. The intent of the designers shouldn't be to do all things for everyone, but rather to make the default sane enough that most people won't see a need to change, and those that do change don't do so because "man, this is such a pain in the ass, it's practically useless."

 

[ndbsolar]

I don't know what your friends are like, but when mine see me playing goldeneye on this thing their gonna be like "HOLY SH*T YOUR PLAYINF F*CKING GOLDENEYE. I GOTTA GET ME ONE OF THOSE". They wont be like "HOLY SH*T YOUR PLAYING F*CKING GOLDENEYE, but the menu looks rubbish so I'm not gonna buy one..."

Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's THE POINT! And it's flying right over your head.

The point is,

N64 = killer app,

Fancy menu = meh

 

[Pickle]

Please take a look at this : http://www.vimeo.com/1366042 (titled OpenMoko UI Train wreck).
Dont let this happen to the Pandora.

Btw as Orkie said, GUI here doesnt mean just the GUI. It also means that the following work :

a) Kernel
b ) X11
c) SDL
d) OpenGL ES 2.0 drivers
e) Compiler toolchain
f) Package management
g) Working wifi (working WPA2) and bluetooth drivers
h) working touchscreen

Really you should think about 3 things not just 2 : Base firmware and drivers, GUI and the applications.
Base firmware needs to be really working right.
GUI and applications can be modified later.


I think GUI needs to be clarified. I think these things need to be completed in order

1. Any tools or libraries or basically anything that supports other applications those most be completed first. No questions asked.
2. Basic GUI system, dont need fluff. Maybe 2-3 people working on this. Doesnt need a lot of fuss just enough for us to launch apps. Id even be happy with Gmenu2x for now.
3. Killer Apps

Once 1 and 2 (basic launcher) are in place and the start of the 3000 start to hit I think the app's and emu's will open like a floodgate.
Maybe we should consider many of the buyers of the first 3000 are hardcore GP2X/GP32 users. Let the community work its stuff on it and I think by the second round it can look fancy enough for the ordinary users.

It really depends on how many dev units are goig to be available. Id put 2-3 into GUI and 2-3 into emu. But Id put as many as necessary to get the libraries and tools going. Even if the toolchain and basic libs were finished work could start before any gets a Pandora.

 

[AireTamStorm]

I'd prioritize the device before the apps. I vote UI, even if it is only minor cosmetic improvements.

 

[dsleaf67]

I already picked GUI, but it seems to me the biggest reason this poll is lopsided this much is because no one has seen any other software running except emu's.

Its been said anything on GP2x should be portable easily (and run better). That means there's a huge libary of gaming to be had add the PSX and you have beaten the PSP homebrew.

Whats really missing from GP2x is alot of other software that will be better shown on the Pandora. Firefox (and other internet tools), PIM, Office apps and other great utils that utilize the extra hardware asked for on this device, internet and bluetooth and USB (for things like GPS, controllers, flash drives, cameras, etc.). These are the devs that'll need more time to get that onto pandora since there isn't already GP2x products for these.

I'm happy with what craigix has said "its already better than Gmenu". Now whats not mentioned has me curious. Imagine when you openthe pandora the first thing go through whats in the firmware and fully test the interface and see what all it can do and how well. Like ebooks, music, video, typing and internet etc. Thats the first impression. After that they use it every day for basic stuff and entertanmaint, then pop on firefox to see whats new from devs and company and download and try right there. Then anything its lacking can be updated as needed or preffered. Perfect Review.

To be honest we've seen emus running and they look great, the ones we've seen so far anyway. We've also, been confirmed some other popular ones have been ported and say they run well. The fact is to anyone out there that isn't on this site only had emus to show, they would say big deal the PSP iPhone can do those (we know not as well). Show stuff or combinationation of things it can do. That will be key. Its been said this system is being developed with everything in mind UMPC Gaming device. So I agree with something like 60/40 gui and apps / games and emulators initially.

 

[Guyfawkes]

Good GUI etc gets my vote. No point in having full speed emulators if the GUI is not working well for example its clumsy to operate, slow to load, buggy and so on. Also, surprisingly not everyone will be using the Pandora for emulators so please don't just concentrate on them.

 

[conso]

I'd say most important would be at least one modern game releasing about same time as the pandora. A working guy and media-player functionality are important, but mustn't be perfect from start. Emulators of some important systems are already a given. Further optimising for longer battery-life is something of really low importance. So the only thing really missing are modern games, that aren't emulated, but get the hell out of the hardware.

How about contacting 2D-boy (dev's of world of goo), send them some fancy dev-units and have a modern, freaking inovative multiplayer-game for the pandy? NICE
Multivinia should be cool on pandora, too.
A lot of people here are hoping the pandora will not only be a media-player with emulators, but will also have a bunch of indy-game ports.

 

[imec]

When a device is first released the applications for it are usually designed around the UI. Emulators improve with a consoles age and developers will jump aboard as the console gains popularity. In the long run it's better to have a simple, stable and effective user interface than having to fight against something slow or unstable that may be too difficult to fix later (if there is a later). I'm not even saying this for cosmetic reasons, I would be happy with a ZSNES-like interface as long as it is quick and stable.

 

[bigtruck]

Hmm... at first my thoughts were somewhere along the lines of "Obviously the apps are more important, why the hell does everyone seem to think we need a great GUI? Honestly, how much time are you going to be spending with the GUI compared to playing games?" After thinking about it some more and reading some of the posts in this thread, I'm not so sure.

I guess perhaps I misunderstood the Pandora's target demographic and commercial intentions. I thought the Pandora was never intended to be a huge commercial success. So I never really thought about the benefits of such commercial success. Go look at the Freerunner. Other than the lack of 3G, I'd love one (if I had the money...), but many people are really turned off by the crappy UI. That's probably a real blow to that project. Negative reviews == fewer people buying it == fewer developers == fewer people to fix the UI == still negative reviews, etc. Now, the stock answer to this, and Linux GUI complaints in general, is that you can just install a different one. That's a perfectly valid point, for a mildly tech-savvy person. Joe Sixpack™, however is going to spend a few seconds looking at the Freerunner's UI or the desktop environment of a livecd he doesn't like, and decide he doesn't want it, and go back to whatever they were using before. Say Joe Sixpack™ goes back to his iPhone. In a couple weeks, everybody outside of the tech-enthusiast community has forgotten about the Freerunner. A large homebrew community has been established around the iPhone, and the Freerunner winds up hurting for more devs.

Personally, even with a good GUI, I'm rather pessimistic as to whether this will commercially be anything more than a niche product. I very much hope I'm wrong about that, though.

 

[PokeParadox]

The Pandora needs an upgraded GMenu2X which can support multi-tasking and make use of all of the hardwares features. The emulators will of course make there way to release eventually and the majority of which will run great at release as an unoptimised port. The Menuing system should do everything necessary and form a good base for applications to run.

 

[Chip]

I'm going to give it one last shot at talking some sense into the "GUI first" crowd.

The menu is already better than the GP2X one, but in order to make it astonishing is going to take some serious dev time, it will take progress away from other areas.

My plan had always been to improve the GUI towards xmas knowing everyone was happy with the other software first.

No, this really is about the firmware.

It's about the GUI, ie the initial interface.

Now maybe I'm reading too much into these brief statements, but that sure sounds to me like the firmware is already solid and the UI is already ready for prime time. Focusing on games and applications at this point would not mean shipping a buggy/cumbersome/feature-limited UI. It sounds to me like the GUI is already good, but it could be great at the expense of more ports available at launch.

Unless I'm mistaken, this really does come down to the following choice:

1. Fully functional (if average looking) UI and many quality ports.
2. Gorgeous UI with few quality ports.

If the general consensus really is to focus on style instead of substance, then by all means that is where pre-release development should concentrate its efforts. It just seems that a lot of people have the impression that in the case of this poll, GUI development somehow means increased functionality or stability. The impression that I have is that it really just means eye candy.

 

[quadomatic]

I'm going to give it one last shot at talking some sense into the "GUI first" crowd.

The menu is already better than the GP2X one, but in order to make it astonishing is going to take some serious dev time, it will take progress away from other areas.

My plan had always been to improve the GUI towards xmas knowing everyone was happy with the other software first.

No, this really is about the firmware.

It's about the GUI, ie the initial interface.

Now maybe I'm reading too much into these brief statements, but that sure sounds to me like the firmware is already solid and the UI is already ready for prime time. Focusing on games and applications at this point would not mean shipping a buggy/cumbersome/feature-limited UI. It sounds to me like the GUI is already good, but it could be great at the expense of more ports available at launch.

Unless I'm mistaken, this really does come down to the following choice:

1. Fully functional (if average looking) UI and many quality ports.
2. Gorgeous UI with few quality ports.

If the general consensus really is to focus on style instead of substance, then by all means that is where pre-release development should concentrate its efforts. It just seems that a lot of people have the impression that in the case of this poll, GUI development somehow means increased functionality or stability. The impression that I have is that it really just means eye candy.

I also get the impression that it means eye candy, which isn't a bad thing. If you look at some of the MP4 players coming out of China, they function fairly well (GUI included), but their UIs are all butt ugly. It calls into question the functionality of the product as a whole.

 

[Orkie]

Now maybe I'm reading too much into these brief statements, but that sure sounds to me like the firmware is already solid and the UI is already ready for prime time.

You clearly are indeed reading too much into them because you have drawn a false conclusion here.

 

[dsleaf67]

As some devs already have a Pandora and are developing for it, it's time to find out what's more important for you guys for Pandora release.

Do you want a good menu system superior to the gp2x one featuring a good audio and video player and other stuff OR do you want to have a basic menu system and a lot of fullspeed emulators for the first release?

What is more important to you?

(Don't worry, the rest will come with later firmware releases, it's just what you want to have as a start).

Sorry Chip, but I think I am going with the creator on this. The question is not just eye candy, but players and 'other stuff' thats what I voted on. If it was just eye candy then no, but its just good menu (superior to GP2x, which I think craigix says it already is) and other stuff meaning other apps that make the system complete. Hopefully, other stuff means firefox, office apps and PIM. At least thats my interpretation of the intial request.

Edited for grammer and emphasis :wub: My bad.

 

[monkeyo2]

I think showing someone a Pandora with a really slick interface running a media player, browser, PSX and CPS2 wide screen MAME, and saying soon well have N64 etc., would have a far better impact than showing them a Pandora with a wider range of emulators and an average interface. Apple seems to do this quite well; the iPhone's innovation is all in its GUI and user interface.

Show people a nicely built house with a few nicely finished rooms instead of a big pile furniture!

 

[Tobriand]

Unless I'm mistaken, this really does come down to the following choice:

1. Fully functional (if average looking) UI and many quality ports.
2. Gorgeous UI with few quality ports.

If that's the case, then I'm with you. However, I don't believe it is (from, of course, the same information that you have; I've just read it differently, I imagine). The key word is "fully". I suspect that the gui at this stage is functional, but not much more. In particular, I doubt it has much in the way of support for multitasking, because we already know there are supposed to be two interfaces, the basic and the not so basic, where the former is good if you only want to be using the Pandora for a single task - gaming, and possibly music or movies.

This is probably a good decision from all sorts of points of view. It does let emulators hit the hardware more directly, for instance. Fine, for the higher-spec ones.

But I will certainly want to play a LOT of lower end ones too - so, say, everything up to SNES (which probably does count as basic on hardware quite this powerful, possibly minus some of the special chips). And I would MUCH rather play them in the advanced system if possible, because then I can have firefox open with a walkthrough in the background, or an IM client or the like.

They are much more likely to be developed in the advanced system in the first place if the advanced system is in place before they are developed!

Ergo, a functional multitasking environment capable of running web-apps should take priority over early emulator ports. Especially when you bear in mind that it took all of four days for early ports to appear on the GP2x after release, those ports then being highly polished over the next little while.

Now, if the GUI that's already done does that, and you're asking about the subsequent development of eye-candy for it, then I'm all for game and emulator development. But if it doesn't, then I'd like the early devs to be able to develop for that system rather than the basic one for those programs that don't push the hardware to the edge - which, really, is probably going to be most things from what we can see so far.

 

[jmetal88]

You know, I think we really need a preview of what you have in the GUI so far before we can decide if it's good enough or needs more work. We really are making a rather uninformed decision here.

 

[Chip]

Sorry Chip, but I think I am going with the creator on this. The question is not just eye candy, but players and 'other stuff' thanks what I voted on. If it was just eye candy then no, but its just good menu (superior to GP2x, which I think craigix says it already is) and other stuff meaning other apps that make the system complete. Hopefully, other stuff means firefox, office apps and PIM. At least thats my interpretation of the intial request.

This is what confuses me, because talking about building media functionality into the UI goes against some previous statements. Your assumption that "other stuff" means a web browser and office apps is taking a bigger leap of faith than I am in assuming that it just means fluff.

I think we need some clarification on what we're voting on here.