What Do You Think The Pandora Should Feature First?

[Squidge]

With all the press the Pandora has had, there's bound to be pre-orders and requests from magazines/etc to review the device. I don't doubt that the first 3000 will be easy to shift, but what happens after that? You can't really ship a load of emulators pre-installed if your going to sell the Pandora in the UK, and if the device ships with a poor/basic UI, then thats what magazines will review.

QUOTE
Will all the devs who already have dev units shift their focus towards GUI as well? (i.e. Squidge, Zod, Firefox, etc.)


First, I don't have a Pandora dev board (I was offered one, but turned it down).

Secondly, No, it just alters who the next set of dev boards will go to. Emulator deveopers or gui/firmware developers.

 

[God Ginrai]

With all the press the Pandora has had, there's bound to be pre-orders and requests from magazines/etc to review the device. I don't doubt that the first 3000 will be easy to shift, but what happens after that? You can't really ship a load of emulators pre-installed if your going to sell the Pandora in the UK, and if the device ships with a poor/basic UI, then thats what magazines will review.

QUOTE
Will all the devs who already have dev units shift their focus towards GUI as well? (i.e. Squidge, Zod, Firefox, etc.)

First, I don't have a Pandora dev board (I was offered one, but turned it down).

Secondly, No, it just alters who the next set of dev boards will go to. Emulator deveopers or gui/firmware developers.


I know you don't have a Pandora dev board. But I know you do have an OMAP dev board and seem to be doing well with it.

And if it only alters who the next set goes to, then I say send ones to Reesy and/or Notaz and the rest to GUI devs.

-God Ginrai

 

[TaG]

And if it only alters who the next set goes to, then I say send ones to Reesy and/or Notaz and the rest to GUI devs.
Add Tom Cooksey to that list:

I'm working with ioquake3 svn and am using the game files from OpenArena as I don't have a copy of Quake3.

Tom PM me and I'll get you on the dev board list.

I guess it also depends how many dev units they have available.

 

[rwip]

I voted gui menu but I think it shouldn't matter too much either way. The reason I say this is because it seems the first batch sold will sell very well whatever the case. The first batch is for the people already sold on the handheld. Because of that I would assume they wouldn't mind what option you make as long as both come to the handheld at some point not too long after launch.

It is the same for consoles that launch with a few good titles normally, but it sells because the fanboys are happy with that. They see the potential in the system and know what is on the horizon. The same can be said for pandora with emulators being shown off in videos, we know it will arrive not too long after launch and so it's good to have a port of a few good games. The community will fill the gaps in games software too hopefully too.

Now this is a different matter if we are talking about emulators on the pandora taking longer than the initial sales too the big fans of the console before launch. That could be a real problem if you want to draw more people in who are not as informed about the state of development of the emulators and not patient at all.

In reality only you could make that kind of judgement call. You know how many units your planning and the time scales and can judge how many fanboys you have who will be happy with it at launch.

It's easy to want the emulators but we know they are on their way so no worries there, therefore working on the gui would make the pandora more pleasing from launch compared to what people are use to.

 

[bigtruck]

I must say I'm rather surprised at the current voting trend. I thought most people here preferred function over form. To me, maybe 45 seconds at most with a clunky interface is more than balanced out by an hour or so with a good emulator or game. As for impressing people, I don't know about you guys, but most of my friends would be far more likely to say, "Oh WOW, you can play Quake3 on that tiny little thing?!" than "That's a really nice... uh... menu... you got there." If the main result of this poll is an effect on where the next batch of dev units go, I'd say maybe 1 or 2 to GUI developers and the rest to app developers. Honestly, if we're still a couple months from release, meaning they'd have a couple months to work on it, how many people does it take to write a functional GUI? This is a handheld, we don't need our own custom clone of Aero.

Also, AFAIK, GUI != firmware. The GUI is nothing more than the interface. A poor GUI does not mean it will be unstable.

 

[Trip]

With all the press the Pandora has had, there's bound to be pre-orders and requests from magazines/etc to review the device. I don't doubt that the first 3000 will be easy to shift, but what happens after that? You can't really ship a load of emulators pre-installed if your going to sell the Pandora in the UK, and if the device ships with a poor/basic UI, then thats what magazines will review.

That's the reason why I voted for the GUI.

Reviews will bring in more prospective buyers if they are favourable, and they always concentrate on the GUI before getting down to the actual usage of the machine. Look what happened with the GP2X.. That lost big points in all the reviews because the basic software wasn't really up to scratch and they didn't spend long enough messing with the system to actually find out how well the other stuff worked.

Emulators will keep being worked on and improved all the time, but the GUI needs to be on good form straight off the bat.

I normally vote for function over form, but not this time

 

[rahulgarg]

Please take a look at this : http://www.vimeo.com/1366042 (titled OpenMoko UI Train wreck).
Dont let this happen to the Pandora.

Btw as Orkie said, GUI here doesnt mean just the GUI. It also means that the following work :

a) Kernel
b ) X11
c) SDL
d) OpenGL ES 2.0 drivers
e) Compiler toolchain
f) Package management
g) Working wifi (working WPA2) and bluetooth drivers
h) working touchscreen

Really you should think about 3 things not just 2 : Base firmware and drivers, GUI and the applications.
Base firmware needs to be really working right.
GUI and applications can be modified later.

 

[PSyMastR]

I personally vote for GUI and User interface, as I believe that without a found base for the system, as in easy navigation/organization of menus, then emulators/stuff will be harder to use.

Yeah, GUIs are rarely changed significantly, as some people may not like future version, and then they may have different compatibility things with the way they launch the apps, and with a good GUI off from the bat, there will be standards expected to be followed by all devs, such as, if a GUI has room for a picture for the program, if its not there, but added later, all the early apps wont have said picture, etc... Sort of like how on the gp2x all the early programs didn't do the right way to quit (with enabling the write to SD card thingy before quitting), and also the icons for programs, the early stuff had no icons, but someone figured it out later, and from then on everyone included icons.

 

[gaterooze]

Emus are likely to pop up very quickly after release, however GUI updates will take a lot longer and changes will be harder to implement after release.

craigix, as you pointed out, most people ask about what systems a GP2X can emulate before buying one. However:

1) most people seem to ask about what apps (e-mail, browsers etc) Pandora will be able to run.
2) there would only be a few "killer app" systems which would make any difference: PS1, SNES, GBA, Amiga, Megadrive. Anything older, people will assume will come soon. Add SCUMM and Quake3, and you have your sales pitch.

I would focus first on those key emus/apps, then the GUI, and lastly the wider breadth of software.

 

[ndbsolar]

I really cannot believe that people here would rather have a fancy menu over some more full speed emulators :blink: You guys know what the main purpose of this handheld is, right? :unsure:

 

[peca]

I voted GUI also, assuming GUI means the application base of the system:

• Linux
• Package Management system
• Appdirs
• X (kdrive? xorg?)
• Language Support (c, c++, java, python, ruby)
  ...

My priorities:
0. Tools and robust gui.
1. Internet browsing...
2. Palmos emulator from nokia.
...

The same me!

I thing that this depend on supposed use of Pandora. I like use it more as pocket computer than gaming device. Still games are important for me, but most wanted are Internet browser, notepad, sketch board, terminal, VNC (remote desktop), python playground, e-book reader and then media, games and emulators.
Oh, some commonly used USB devices should work (Mass storage, Keyboard + mice, joystick, LED light ;-) )

 

[Ravnos]

I voted GUI. To everyone who is bitching because we want a "fancy" menu, wake up. This isn't about pretty pictures. It's about getting a UI that is useful, user friendly, and full featured. Whether it's GMenu, Maemo, ROX, or whatever your preference is, it needs to work and work well the moment this thing ships because it's the first thing EVERYONE is going to see when they turn this thing on, and it's the ONLY application that EVERYONE will have to use when they use their Pandora. It is important that they get it right because word of mouth will make or break this machine and if new users go around telling people "yeah, you can do some cool stuff with it but it's really a hassle", then the Pandora will be short lived indeed.

 

[ndbsolar]

I voted GUI. To everyone who is bitching because we want a "fancy" menu, wake up. This isn't about pretty pictures. It's about getting a UI that is useful, user friendly, and full featured. Whether it's GMenu, Maemo, ROX, or whatever your preference is, it needs to work and work well the moment this thing ships because it's the first thing EVERYONE is going to see when they turn this thing on, and it's the ONLY application that EVERYONE will have to use when they use their Pandora. It is important that they get it right because word of mouth will make or break this machine and if new users go around telling people "yeah, you can do some cool stuff with it but it's really a hassle", then the Pandora will be short lived indeed.

The fact is that nothing will sell the system faster than someone posting a video of a fast N64 emulator.
The only thing that might sell it faster is if Nintendo themselfs made an exclusive Mario game for it. That won't happen. My point is that a fancy menu will not sell the system :rolleyes:

 

[hessiess]

The first prioraty should be getting the kernal stable, then the rest of the OS (X11, libs, vi, C compialer etc). once this is done the next prioraty should be getting some games/emu's running that show off the power of the console. GUI's are of little importance, BASH is perfectly capable of launching apps.

 

[Tashi]

Sounds like to decide the next batch of pandoras goes 100% to Gui or 100% to Emu Devs. Why??? :blink:

Its not possible to split the batch? And 50/50 for Gui and Emu Devs or 60/40, 40/60 or whatever.

 

[Ravnos]

The fact is that nothing will sell the system faster than someone posting a video of a fast N64 emulator.
The only thing that might sell it faster is if Nintendo themselfs made an exclusive Mario game for it. That won't happen. My point is that a fancy menu will not sell the system :rolleyes:

No, but it will prevent sales of the system if there is a hacky, slapped together, "we'll fix it later" UI. This forum is full of complaints from people who couldn't figure out how to set things up on the GP2X or couldn't get something working. A good GUI is more important than you realise, and it's not just about looks. There's already someone working on N64 emulation. Now let's get some people working on the way I'll install and run that N64 emulator so that when I show my friends "this awesome N64 emulator" they don't dismiss it and say, "looks like a pain in the ass to use."

QUOTE

The first prioraty should be getting the kernal stable, then the rest of the OS (X11, libs, C compialer etc). once this is done the next prioraty should be getting some games/emu's running that show off the power of the console. GUI's are of little importance, BASH is perfectly capable of launching apps.



If you think the average user is going to want to launch everything from a bash prompt, you're out of your mind. Do you know how many people complained about having to use launch scripts on the GP2X? Seriously man, the GUI is incredibly important.

 

[cb88]

all this is under the assumption that linux will be running with framebuffer and X11

i chose full speed emulators

i feel confident that craigix's gui will be sufficient for starters ...DJwillis is working on the linux side and it sounds like he plans an eventual debian port with lenny stable being launched about the same time as pandoara I say wait on the gui... since it would be better to have something lenny based to upgrade to with gui and the whole nine yards.... if your an early adopter a basic gui should be enough... not like there will be more than a few programs to launch anyway when the pandora is released of course later there may be hundereds and the initial system could probably use an update by then anyway

what good is a gui if you don't have programs? pretty common sence

 

[ndbsolar]

[/quote]
No, but it will prevent sales of the system if there is a hacky, slapped together, "we'll fix it later" UI. This forum is full of complaints from people who couldn't figure out how to set things up on the GP2X or couldn't get something working. A good GUI is more important than you realise, and it's not just about looks. There's already someone working on N64 emulation. Now let's get some people working on the way I'll install and run that N64 emulator so that when I show my friends "this awesome N64 emulator" they don't dismiss it and say, "looks like a pain in the ass to use."

I don't know what your friends are like, but when mine see me playing goldeneye on this thing their gonna be like "HOLY SH*T YOUR PLAYINF F*CKING GOLDENEYE. I GOTTA GET ME ONE OF THOSE". They wont be like "HOLY SH*T YOUR PLAYING F*CKING GOLDENEYE, but the menu looks rubbish so I'm not gonna buy one..."

 

[quadomatic]

Just to gauge the consequences of what we're all asking for, how much will emulators suffer if attention is to shift towards GUI?

Well it shifts who gets the next batch of dev units.

Do we sent them to game/app/emu authors or to people who want to work on the firmware/gui?


Alright, I have yet to vote, because I need an answer to something first.

Will all the devs who already have dev units shift their focus towards GUI as well? (i.e. Squidge, Zod, Firefox, etc.)

If So, then I would vote emulators. But if not, then I would vote GUI. This is the reason:

If Squidge has SNES set and Zod has PSX set (and hopefully N64), all you need to do is send a dev unit or two to either Notaz or Reesy to get either DrMD or PicoDrive ported, you'll have some popular base systems covered and you can send the rest to GUI devs to work on the GUI.

I think you need some of the popular systems emulated first, but I don't think you need everything before a nice GUI.

EDIT: Note: I would vote Emus if this would take Zod and/or Squidge away from their current emu work.

-God Ginrai


I pretty much second everything in this statement

 

[bigtruck]

It's about getting a UI that is useful, user friendly, and full featured. Whether it's GMenu, Maemo, ROX, or whatever your preference is...
QUOTE
...it's the ONLY application that EVERYONE will have to use when they use their Pandora.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but aren't those two statements contradictory? The first one seems correct to me, that the "official" GUI is really more of just a "default" GUI. It can be replaced by others written from scratch or X and a WM. So not everyone is going to be using it. I might even just use the terminal most of the time, and only start up X when browsing (on a side note, why is it impossible to make a text-based browser that can decently handle page layouts?) or playing a game.

However, I will agree that the reviews of the Pandora could suffer from a poor GUI, and that is a valid reason for a good GUI.