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Discussion in 'Pyra News' started by EvilDragon, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    Yeah I don't quite understand it myself, people go off their desktop experiences I suppose. One bonus of the pandora was NAND size forced a small foot print and forced a standard across every device, I guess with the Pyra we may have to deal with people messing up their systems by adding back-port repositories or other 3rd party ones.

    EDIT: I can imagine future support questions... I just dist-upgrade to testing, why doesn't anything work anymore?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
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  2. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

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    Swordfish:

    Product doesn't work, send RMA. Without RMA tag.

    An idiot in a more idiot-proof system is a system that produces fewer of these. It does not change the idiot.

    It seems the top end of the Dunning-Kruger effect also works to overestimate the ability of lesser foes.

    Leave it to the one who is in for a surprise to put faith in user ability, trust the user to consider the support omni-potent.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
  3. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

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    I have been known to shake a stick at a lot of things, but I agree with you.
     
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  4. Haraldur

    Haraldur Very Active Member

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    It seems that people are especially likely to forget the internal microSD card slot. I suppose that is inevitable as it is both a. not visible from outside and b. not in the Pandora.

    @EvilDragon
    Thought: if it seems likely that the average consumer would forget about the internal microSD, you might sell the Pyra with different internal storage "options", offering customers 64GiB, 128GiB (as opposed to 32GiB or 16GiB) etc. as "internal storage" at a higher price, by simply providing appropriate microSD cards preinstalled in the device with the operating system preinstalled also. Then, instead of needing to make the relatively subtle point that the internal storage can be expanded with microSD, just say that higher-capacity "models"/"configurations" of the Pyra are on offer (some will take this, having seen the lower price without microSDs, and give you more money for an implicit microSD card).

    In the broader world of marketing, I imagine that this is rather ethical. It is hardly more than what companies like Dell do when they allow an online customer to "customize" their new PC by choosing the hard-drive size. The fact that the customer could, in the future, "upgrade" their microSD card as they please is merely an implementation detail.
     
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  5. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

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    single-9.gif
    I may be a shaker of the stick, but then i go right for the snuggle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  6. error

    error Very Active Member

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    While I, in some ways, agree with the sentiment, I don't think we should be disparaging less technically-inclined users from the device. This kind of exclusive attitude in the community will make sure the device never expands beyond the very niche market it has now, which is not good for anybody. The Pyra - and its community - should be friendly to everybody interested. It's good for the culture and it's good for the success of the device.
     
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  7. jp10558

    jp10558 Still Fresh

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    +1 for bigger sizes. 16GB minimum IMHO. 32GB sounds good to me. It's at least as much perception as anything more. When I went from my 16GB Note 2 to a Note 5, I paid for the 64GB version. Not because I needed the space, but because I don't have to worry about having "too many" podcasts loaded, or too many apps, or too much video, or . . . I just don't think about it anymore, and I used to regularly spend time and effort managing that space. Like all my other computer usage, it's much easier to just buy more storage than have to manage a limited amount. Professionally, even with the mark ups for SAN + backup, adding more storage is almost always cheaper when the labor costs of managing limited storage is considered.

    The marketing is also important, when your base phones are doing 32GB, shipping a "more expensive" device (i.e. not subsidized via contract or interest free payment plans) with 1/2 or less storage just makes it seem limited, even if it's not. And if there's also Android, well then you "need" double the space.
     
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  8. CommanderB

    CommanderB Member

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    If 32gb EMMC space would only increase the cost by 4€, I would say that 32gb should be preferred. It improves the overall first impression of the pyra and there are definitely use cases (Latex, VMs, Android etc.) Where the storage could be necessary
     
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  9. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    @jp10558 the Pyra has 2 full-sized SD cards and one micro SD... Not sure why you would have space issues with your podcasts with 16GB as I'd see it smarter storing it on external storage... I see the additional space mostly useful for additional development work, maybe rootfs and VM images to run on a slightly faster storage.
     
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  10. Xcl4m4t10n

    Xcl4m4t10n Advanced Member

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    In my case, I need a 128GB card ONLY for the music roto2.
     
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  11. ible

    ible professional vim user

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    i like @Haraldur's idea. you can use a 16GB eMMC for everyone, but offer 16GB + (32GB, 64GB, 128GB) etc. as higher-priced models which just have a microSD stuck up in there.

    it's still internal storage, since it's tough to get to the micro SD card, and you can say it's upgradeable internal storage, too.
     
  12. Grench

    Grench Forum Addict!

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    This. How in the world did we actually get arguments in this thread where people claim that the Pyra won't have enough storage optinos for them?

    Periodically if/when SD and uSD capacity increases I have gone through an exercise to estimate the data capacity of a stand-alone no wires hanging out Pyra that would still fit in a cargo pocket (no BIG dongles hanging out).

    NOT counting the internal eMMC
    Using two (2) of these:

    Using three (3) of these:

    Using two (2) of these:


    That puts:
    200GB in the internal uSD slot
    200GB in the left USB 2.0 slot
    200GB in the right USB 2.0 slot
    512GB in the left SD slot
    512GB in the right SD slot

    For those counting, that is 1.6TB of space, running without wires, no BIG dongles sticking out, retaining a configuration that can fit in your pants pocket.

    That is NOT counting the eMMC that the device boots from. In turn, that means that the above can be unmounted/mounted in session (though I wouldn't try it with the internal uSD behind the battery for mechanical reasons). I.e. if that isn't enough, you can swap cards.

    There is no phone, no handheld or pocket computer that can touch that kind of capacity.

    The eMMC is about booting the device. 16 GB is enough. If ED says that 32GB makes sense and is a low bar to step up to - I'm good with that too. BUT - this is JUST a storage space to boot from and maybe have a few apps riding in it. By design this isn't the device capacity.

    ALL of the above cases concerning running out of space are silly.
     
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  13. Wrath Of Khan

    Wrath Of Khan Soul soother...

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    Yup. There's plenty of storage space. 16 gigabyte is plenty internally.
     
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  14. klapse

    klapse Central Scrutinizer

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  15. AnimatedFreak

    AnimatedFreak Very Active Member

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    I think that for people who don't have large SD cards already it's a bummer to have to buy them with the Pyra. More fun to get it and be able to play right away if you don't have SD cards ready. That can be a reason to go for 32GB of internal storage, especially if it's not that much more expensive.
     
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  16. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    But as trashy said, the Pyra OS is 1GB so there will be plenty of space on the emmc to put stuff on out of the box even with a 16GB emmc. IMO it would be kind of a waste though to buy the Pyra and then not use one of the main features (the SD slots).

    Don't get me wrong 32GB is good, I would appreciate it and use it....I just don't see a NEED (more of a nice to have) since I will have 2x512GB SD cards and the biggest micrSD card I can find.

    I probably wont even use the emmc for storage due to wear, and it is nice to be able to pull out an SD card and load it onto an XP/Vista/7/whatever computer and use the files on it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
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  17. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    If 32GB is that cheap (and assuming we aren't comprimising on reliability or speed) then it seems a no brainer to go for that just to avoid having to argue with people that 8/16GB isn't enough for them. I won't be using it for swap, and probably won't be using it to store music or games, but I don't see any disadvantage to that space being there.
     
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  18. PowerGod

    PowerGod Advanced Member

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    Let's say that the installed OS doesn't work anymore and you need to reflash, how difficult could be to get out all the other personal data before starting ?
    I suppose that if there's a lot of space, people will put there everything
     
  19. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, you could create multiple partitions (one for the OS itself, one for /home), so with a reflash, you wouldn't lose personal data.
     
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  20. PowerGod

    PowerGod Advanced Member

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    Or maybe YOU could create them :p

    A firmware installer with the choice: "Reinstall maintaining personal data ? Or Destroy Everything ?" could be useful

    I don't mind about the size, I'll use external supports as far as possible, I like how PND works
     
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