Unofficial Keyboard Layouts

[comradekingu]

Having space more central is a good idea because it is more efficient for everyone. Dvorak people not included, but thats very few people. What is important to them is the singlewidth space.

I think select should be above start for some reason. It seems more in tune with how it is on other systems

 

[Saber]

Start and select are in a good spot for me on the Pandora.

Maybe Pyra's Start and Select buttons will have some key travel and texture improvements, but it's good to hear someone likes them the way they are. Wonder if making just those three center column keys slightly longer than all the other keys but less than the Spacebar is doable so they can be reached easier from either outstretched thumb? 

Having space more central is a good idea because it is more efficient for everyone. Dvorak people not included, but thats very few people. What is important to them is the singlewidth space.

I think select should be above start for some reason. It seems more in tune with how it is on other systems

Yeah, the community definitely seems conflicted on which size Spacebar they want. Some are almost adamant they can't enjoy a Pyra with a single width Spacebar. The bigger issue though is they're pretty evenly in disagreement on whether to have a "centered" layout like what the Pandora was, or to go more international friendly with the Qwerty letters placed off to the left. Tough decision for those involved.

 

[_wb_]

Yeah, the community definitely seems conflicted on which size Spacebar they want. Some are almost adamant they can't enjoy a Pyra with a single width Spacebar. The bigger issue though is they're pretty evenly in disagreement on whether to have a "centered" layout like what the Pandora was, or to go more international friendly with the Qwerty letters placed off to the left. Tough decision for those involved.

Centered or left-aligned is something that can be solved if necessary by having two versions of the keymat, if it really turns out people have very strong and different opinions on this.

Double or single width space is something that affects the case as well. If you make it single-width, then you could still do a manual case mod to turn it into a double-width layout (and you can even pick any location you like for the space bar). If you make it double-width, then there is no nice way to turn it into a single-width layout.

But in my opinion, this is not a matter of taste, it's a matter that can be decided based on reason. If we follow the principle "function above form", then the question is basically settled.

Left-aligned single-width is clearly the most versatile and most functional layout. It's international-friendly, Dvorak-friendly, and it maximizes the number of available keys.

There is no significant advantage to a centered layout: the only real advantage it has, is that it puts Q between 1 and 2, and that's the standard alignment of the number row with the QWERTY row. But the alignment between those rows is not really hugely important. The other arguments are æsthetical ("looks more pleasingly symmetrical", etc).

There is no significant advantage to a double-width space. The only good reason to make a key larger, is to make it easier to hit -- e.g. the long space bar on a regular keyboard is long so it can be easily hit by both thumbs. This reason does not apply. There is no way to make the Pyra space key easy to hit with both thumbs, unless we somehow put it in the center (and even then, I think it would require a 4-key-wide space to really make it easy to hit with both thumbs). In all of the main keyboard layout proposals, space can only be reached with the right thumb anyway. And that is not even a bad thing because QWERTY is left-biased anyway (regardless of the alignment, the 3 most frequent letters -- E, T, A -- are on the left), so putting the most important non-letter (space) on the right compensates for that. The other arguments in favor of double-width space are æsthetical ("that's how the space key is supposed to look!", etc.)

 

[Granitehead]

I had the impression some people were genuinely concerned they might not be able to hit a single width space key, _wb_.

Edit: I, on the other hand, if anything, would like a single width space on each side, but I guess that takes too much room.

 

[_wb_]

I had the impression some people were genuinely concerned they might not be able to hit a single width space key, _wb_.

Do those people know that all the other keys are single width?

If you can't hit single-width keys (I guess that is possible, if you have huge thumbs or something), the keyboard will be worthless anyway, regardless of the size of the space key.

 

[Granitehead]

I had the impression some people were genuinely concerned they might not be able to hit a single width space key, _wb_.

 Do those people know that all the other keys are single width?

To be honest, I'm not sure...


(actually they were well aware of it, I think. But they brought up the argument anyway. Don't know why)

 

[comradekingu]

Ignorance is no way to make sound judgements. Yes doublewidth will work, but it will work _less well_ than singlewidth. Also it will severly limit what is already extremely limited, button and space -estate. With semi-doublewidth being the historical choice on the pandora, some people tend to stick with thinking it was done for good reason.

Making the space doublewidth from an engineering perspective is a "because i can" endavour. Otherwise you make it look like you were only able to do singlewidth in strictly matrix pattern.

That is a false design-guide. And it is not a confident choice, nor an educated one. To the insightfull mind a keyboard that has such historical ill-adapted oddities look out of place. And in practice they feel out of place.

Doublewidth space for non-centered space, on two-thumb keyboards, is something there only exists reason for in peoples minds. The reason being that its a comfortable transition from things that appear to be similar. Those same people will see how antiquated it looks when time allows for sense to be made, as it has with other keys already.

The landslide results against the four hardware toggles I think, as I said before, are more likely to do with people wanting a dedicated Escape key rather than their affinity for Bluetooth, WiFi, 3G, and HDMI all on one button. How does one fit four hieroglyphics on a single keycap when ED already said we can have only put on three per key?

 Actually there are even 5 hardware toggles that have been mentioned so far: Bluetooth, Wifi, 3G, HDMI, and USB.

It's a bit hard to decide now which ones will actually be useful -- if you only gain 1mW by switching something off that could also be on all the time by default, we don't need a button for it.

Maybe it's better to give the button a generic name, and use it as a kind of modifier. E.g. call it "Hardware" and then make it so that Hardware+B toggles Bluetooth, Hardware+W toggles Wifi, and so on. For 3G we could use Hardware+3 or Hardware+M or Hardware+D (for Mobile Data). Who knows what other stuff we will want to toggle. Maybe we'll want a good old Turbo button (to toggle between low-power mode and high-performance mode)? Make it Hardware+T then. Maybe a button to toggle the GPS? Hardware+G. And so on.

Of course we could make it configurable what happens if you simply tap the "Hardware" button without using it as a modifier with a letter: it could then toggle the thing you want to toggle most often (which could be 3G for some people, and HDMI or Turbo or whatever for others). And also Shift+Hardware tap and Meta+Hardware tap and Ctrl+Hardware tap and Alt+Hardware tap and all combinations of those could of course be assigned actions.

Dividing it into power and brightness is the separation that can be made. Brightness is back of lid, keyboard and screen.  Power is anyhting else that uses power, and pressing the button brings up the menu to change it. This will work, for everyone. Chain-commands may or may not be good, but should not be the default if its obvious that there are too few buttons. There are too few buttons, so we have to make the compromise there, rather than displaying ugliness for all to see.Easy is always good, advanced is sometimes good. But advanced is never a replacement for easy. That is the equivalent to something that is too simple so that it stops being easy.

Good defaults are more important than input though. Most important is not adding traps.

Nobody wants to have no video out because of unknown to them reasons. That is more important overall than how much power it saves.

 

[Grench]

IF the space bar is going to be double width, I'd like to see the letters moved up a row and the space bar centered. A double width centered space bar DOES work well in some layouts - but it requires a more non-traditional approach to the number and function keys. In this type of scenario, the centered space bar is easier to reach with both thumbs. (Thread with this style of space bar for reference: http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/16872-and-now-for-something-completely-different-keyboard-option/?p=355251 It's still a work in progress.)

In general, though, if the space bar is going to be offset to one side or the other, making it double width is fairly well pointless from a functional perspective.

 

[Saber]

Updated both the off-centered and centered layouts.

Honored the community vote by keeping Spacebar double width sized. Time will tell how people feel about it but regardless I'm happy with today's two layouts. Hope you like them too.   

 

[Saber]

Updated the layout.    h34r:

 

[Gentoox]

I mad this layout concept, its just a preview....(some buttons are missing like power on/off brightness and some thinks like speakers) I think we have 2014 and not 1990 anymore... So i decided to replace the keyboard with an touchscreen similar to smartphone ones, so everyone can have there own layout..... I could also be used as second screen....

I also added steam controller like touch pads... Maybe this will be the next big improvement of gamepads...

I know this is a very individual topic, so be free to critize or improve....

 

[TrashyMG]

I know this is a very individual topic, so be free to critize or improve....

Overall consensus here on the boards though many poll threads, people want a physical keyboard. The touchscreen you propose be would way too small to provide a decent keypad. Also the keyboard is pretty much set in stone at this point of development. The only argument now is the key layout. 

 

[Gentoox]

I know this is a very individual topic, so be free to critize or improve....

Overall consensus here on the boards though many poll threads, people want a physical keyboard. The touchscreen you propose be would way too small to provide a decent keypad. Also the keyboard is pretty much set in stone at this point of development. The only argument now is the key layout. 

 Okay I see, if everyone want a physical keyboard, it is a wise decision to go for it..... (I don't want that the pyra will flop)

But I think the size will be fit perfectly... for example the iphone 5 screen is just 1,9 inches wide and its one of the most used chat devices worldwide... 

 

[bzar]

Popularity does not imply properness.

 

[rygD]

^However this is a niche device already, so popularity within the community might mean more sales.  This is also a big reason for keeping the keyboard and Linux.  

I think if most people here were content with touchscreen Android devices the Pyra would not happen, since there are plenty of options for physical gaming controls for those Android devices.

 

[comradekingu]

Valve probably owns all the rights and posess the knowhow of getting their design to work. I think it would work if the keyboard slid out from underneath.

Keyboards and touchscreens alike need some size before they become effective.

 

[Tenka]

The touchscreen keyboard joke is pretty old by now, but I like the drawing, it looks like a Pikachu face.

 

[Saber]

Yet another revision. Prepared just in case center clickable nubs are unsourceable. 

 

[Saber]

Updated the first post with two layouts, "centered" and "uncentered" versions.  

 

[Saber]

Added v1 and v2's for the centered and uncentered layouts.

Hopefully something can be glommed from these to augment the final product.